It's one I built myself, it seems to work OK (well, valve opener needs a bit more work). I'm in OX7, I'd give it a go, I've been looking to buy a 197 head and inlet to play with.
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It's one I built myself, it seems to work OK (well, valve opener needs a bit more work). I'm in OX7, I'd give it a go, I've been looking to buy a 197 head and inlet to play with.
NorthloopCup
ClioSport Moderator
There are a few out there but its just so much work to get it to fit that not many would bother with it. Easier to fit the 197 inlet and head on to the 172 block then turbo it tbh! Or you could always use the 197 pistons in the block to get the compression ratio back up.....................but then you may as well have just fitted a 197 engine.
BMW 330ci sp/ 172Cup
Fred- thanks for reading the post, evaluating our findings and then providing valuable feedback
BMW 330ci sp/ 172Cup
RB 182
I was having a think again about whether or not your throttle body was restricting at all. So tonight I turned up an adaptor to let it fit nicely onto the bench (plus allow easy testing of intake pipes and filters).
I cut a little stick to hold the throttle open. It came out at ~325cfm@10". I think at best your engine will suck up 220cfm, at that flow the tb will have about an 11mbar pressure drop, so in flow terms about 1% drop in power - but that will only be at peak, I guess around peak torque that would be more like 150cfm, so a pressure drop of nearer 5mbar ~0.5%.
I cut a little stick to hold the throttle open. It came out at ~325cfm@10". I think at best your engine will suck up 220cfm, at that flow the tb will have about an 11mbar pressure drop, so in flow terms about 1% drop in power - but that will only be at peak, I guess around peak torque that would be more like 150cfm, so a pressure drop of nearer 5mbar ~0.5%.
BMW 330ci sp/ 172Cup
Hi Andy,
Thanks for carrying on with this work. I have read your post a few times trying to get my head around the results-I now think I know what you are saying. At the end of the day the TB isn't reducing the performance by any great margin.
Even so, I think I will remove the step Pre and post butterfly valve. Won't take me long and gives me something to do while the engine is away. Might claw back the 0.5% loss too
Thanks for carrying on with this work. I have read your post a few times trying to get my head around the results-I now think I know what you are saying. At the end of the day the TB isn't reducing the performance by any great margin.
Even so, I think I will remove the step Pre and post butterfly valve. Won't take me long and gives me something to do while the engine is away. Might claw back the 0.5% loss too
Hi Andy,
Thanks for carrying on with this work. I have read your post a few times trying to get my head around the results-I now think I know what you are saying. At the end of the day the TB isn't reducing the performance by any great margin.
Even so, I think I will remove the step Pre and post butterfly valve. Won't take me long and gives me something to do while the engine is away. Might claw back the 0.5% loss too
I suspect that will do nothing, the restriction will be the throttle spindle, but even removing that completely would only drop that 11mbar to 8mbar (shouldn't harm though). That's assuming my best guesses are close, no doubt someone will correct them
I think the air filter stuff will be interesting. I found a test result on line for a Jenvey 45mm DTH for a VW; 168cfm@10"
RB 182
No updates on the engine but I got bored in work so thought I'd be a bit creative with the scrap pistons we have...
Ta da!
I've had a st/st frame made up and polished to buggery. Looking to put glass on the front and etched picture on the back. The base will be solid 10mm st/st with two threaded shafts comming up to hold the conrod in place.
Was thinking:
"In memory of Percy"
"Oulton Park 2011"
"R.I.P"
Ta da!
I've had a st/st frame made up and polished to buggery. Looking to put glass on the front and etched picture on the back. The base will be solid 10mm st/st with two threaded shafts comming up to hold the conrod in place.
Was thinking:
"In memory of Percy"
"Oulton Park 2011"
"R.I.P"
Last edited:
BMW 330ci sp/ 172Cup
LOL - you really have got too much time on your hands!
I hope you are going to mount knackered piston number 4 in there for maximum effect though! Sounds like it could end up looking like some kind of "Clio bafta" award to me
Please, please tell me it's going on your fireplace!
I hope you are going to mount knackered piston number 4 in there for maximum effect though! Sounds like it could end up looking like some kind of "Clio bafta" award to me
Please, please tell me it's going on your fireplace!
RB 182
It's for ME Nick An no, No4 can be used for something else lol.
An no, No4 can be used for something else lol.
BMW 330ci sp/ 172Cup
UPDATE #14 - A little bit of prep work
It's been quite a while since I have needed to write an update for our project track car but today the Clio got wheeled out of my garage for the first time in nearly 3 months!
It sees sunlight
As the engine build could be complete in a couple of weeks we thought we better start doing some prep work before getting the unit back. Nothing too difficult, merely tidying a few bits up prior to putting it all back together really.
As the old engine liked to breath rather heavily towards the end of its life there was quite a bit of oil covering various parts of the engine bay. The worst areas were around the exhaust manifold, when the breather popped off, and down by the airbox, when the oil catch tank reached capacity The bonnet and bumper havent been bolted back on since the engine came out so they were easily removed:
We removed the lights to access some of the inner wing area a little bit better and flipped the loom over the nsf wing. Other parts were covered in plastic bags for protection. Then Autoglym engine degreaser was sprayed all over(sounding like a detailing thread), scrubbed, then rinsed off. Look loads better and a quick mop over with a cloth to remove standing water was all that was left to do.
After:
The gearbox was also qiven a scrub as it was covered in oil from the catch tank overflowing:
After:
Previously, even though you cannot see it once its installed, i had cleaned up the lower inlet manifold.
Before:
After:
And the Upper plenum was degreased after I double checked the port matching to the lower:
This will get acid etched and painted in the next week or two ready for the new engine.
Other parts such as the alternator, PAS tank, coolant tank, fan assembly and pipework have also been cleaned. Although not perfect, its a track car remember, it looks much better than it previously did.
Will post some pics of the finished upper plenum and very soon we should have an update regarding the engine
Weather was perfect today and it felt good to get working on the car again - looking forward to getting the engine back in and hitting the tracks again soon
Nick (and Mike)
It's been quite a while since I have needed to write an update for our project track car but today the Clio got wheeled out of my garage for the first time in nearly 3 months!
It sees sunlight
As the engine build could be complete in a couple of weeks we thought we better start doing some prep work before getting the unit back. Nothing too difficult, merely tidying a few bits up prior to putting it all back together really.
As the old engine liked to breath rather heavily towards the end of its life there was quite a bit of oil covering various parts of the engine bay. The worst areas were around the exhaust manifold, when the breather popped off, and down by the airbox, when the oil catch tank reached capacity
The bonnet and bumper havent been bolted back on since the engine came out so they were easily removed:We removed the lights to access some of the inner wing area a little bit better and flipped the loom over the nsf wing. Other parts were covered in plastic bags for protection. Then Autoglym engine degreaser was sprayed all over(sounding like a detailing thread
), scrubbed, then rinsed off. Look loads better and a quick mop over with a cloth to remove standing water was all that was left to do.After:
The gearbox was also qiven a scrub as it was covered in oil from the catch tank overflowing:
After:
Previously, even though you cannot see it once its installed, i had cleaned up the lower inlet manifold.
Before:
After:
And the Upper plenum was degreased after I double checked the port matching to the lower:
This will get acid etched and painted in the next week or two ready for the new engine.
Other parts such as the alternator, PAS tank, coolant tank, fan assembly and pipework have also been cleaned. Although not perfect, its a track car remember, it looks much better than it previously did.
Will post some pics of the finished upper plenum and very soon we should have an update regarding the engine
Weather was perfect today and it felt good to get working on the car again - looking forward to getting the engine back in and hitting the tracks again soon
Nick (and Mike)
BMW 330ci sp/ 172Cup
Great to see it start returning to form Nick. Coming to a trackdays near you soon
Cheers Jonny - cannot wait
You planning any soon? - also have you been tinkering with yours over winter, thought i read that you are looking to do something with new throttle body or something? I think your car deserves a project thread!
BMW 330ci sp/ 172Cup
Hmm - it probably wont be ready to be honest Sam.
I'm thinking a couple of weeks until we get the engine? - then the fun of fitting it, running it in, then getting it mapped properly.
182cup & 172 racecar
Far too shiny.
You can imagine what our looked like after Oulton, Industrial steam cleaner on high and on full chemical,
still got a little oil seeping out of the bonnet.
Be good when you've done.
You can imagine what our looked like after Oulton, Industrial steam cleaner on high and on full chemical,
still got a little oil seeping out of the bonnet.
Be good when you've done.
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Golf GTD Mk7
Cheers Jonny - cannot wait
You planning any soon? - also have you been tinkering with yours over winter, thought i read that you are looking to do something with new throttle body or something? I think your car deserves a project thread!
Yeah it's at matts next weekend. I've not booked any yet, but lots of ET vouchers to use, so I'll be doing 4-5 this year
RB 182
Yeah it's at matts next weekend. I've not booked any yet, but lots of ET vouchers to use, so I'll be doing 4-5 this year
I'm going to give Easy Track a call next week, see if they will do the same offer as done on here. They are normally very helpfull with existing customers
RB 182
Cheers mate, hopefully see you and Jonny on the track some time soon. I miss the lack of track days
RB 182
Mid-late March I would assume. Need to get the engine back, fitt it, make sure everyting works, mot, tax disc, break it in, map it, then a trip to Freds or my work to do some welding and fab work. We need some cross seat rails made up or at least a new sub frame as the cobra ones are pants.
RB 182
Do Donington btw. I love the fast flowing nature of the track, always had a great time there!
Ph1 T
think i will do, i am wanting to do cadwell before i go to the ring in july should be an interesting weekend. car handled awesome btw mike with the AST's and r888 at oulton other week.. need to get to the bottom of this bleeding abs problem
BMW 330ci sp/ 172Cup
Thanks for all the positive comments - it's nice to read them after writing the updates
Update# 15 - A couple of little jobs done:
We pushed the Clio out of my garage again today to try and button up a couple little jobs that need to be done before we get the engine back.
Mike ordered a sheet of Nimbus from DemonTweaks the other week so we set about fixing it to the bulk head. It's one of those jobs that you initially think wont take very long but when you start it, it soon eats through the time. We didnt have a pattern to work with so we knocked a quick template up using some cardboard until it looked about right. This was transfered to the Nimbus and that in turn went in and out of the car a few time - adjusting the shape each time. Glad this stuff is easy to trim as it makes adjusting it dead simple!
Took a quick picture of the completed install - looks OK but more importantly protects the wiring and brake lines that run close the the manifold:
We cleaned up some other bits and pieces and also took delivery of this a while ago (from Matt350):
Time was running out so we didnt get round to making up the brackets but it looks an easy enough job - famous last words
We are also going to order a new radiator so fingers crossed that will arrive during the week. Apart from sorting out a new ring terminal for the alternator (broke during engine removal) we are pretty much ready to go. Hopefully the engine should be ready very, very soon - fun times ahead!
Thanks for reading
Update# 15 - A couple of little jobs done:
We pushed the Clio out of my garage again today to try and button up a couple little jobs that need to be done before we get the engine back.
Mike ordered a sheet of Nimbus from DemonTweaks the other week so we set about fixing it to the bulk head. It's one of those jobs that you initially think wont take very long but when you start it, it soon eats through the time
. We didnt have a pattern to work with so we knocked a quick template up using some cardboard until it looked about right. This was transfered to the Nimbus and that in turn went in and out of the car a few time - adjusting the shape each time. Glad this stuff is easy to trim as it makes adjusting it dead simple!Took a quick picture of the completed install - looks OK but more importantly protects the wiring and brake lines that run close the the manifold:
We cleaned up some other bits and pieces and also took delivery of this a while ago (from Matt350):
Time was running out so we didnt get round to making up the brackets but it looks an easy enough job - famous last words
We are also going to order a new radiator so fingers crossed that will arrive during the week. Apart from sorting out a new ring terminal for the alternator (broke during engine removal) we are pretty much ready to go. Hopefully the engine should be ready very, very soon
- fun times ahead!Thanks for reading
Nice job with the Nimbus looks good , Look forward to seeing the engine go back in!
, Look forward to seeing the engine go back in!
BMW 330ci sp/ 172Cup
Nice job with the Nimbus looks good
Cheers James - you and me both!
BMW 330ci sp/ 172Cup
Worked late today but a parcel had been delivered during the day. Unpacked it to be greeted by this:
The ever popular VW Polo SE310 radiator - future proofing the engine bay. Ordered it yesterday from adrad.co.uk and when even opting for free standard delivery it turned up in under 24hrs. Cannot argue with that, and they even threw in the M22x1.5mm blanking plug when i called them to to check availabilty. £30 bargain.
Quick mockup in the engine bay - will come up a bit higher when its mounted, but I can already see why it's so popular with the ITB boys: (excuse the crap pic and garden rake holding the bonnet up)
Also, according to the jungle drums, I hear that we a getting delivery of the new "BTM Performance" engine a week on Friday! whoop! Updates to follow shortly
Cheers,
Nick
The ever popular VW Polo SE310 radiator - future proofing the engine bay. Ordered it yesterday from adrad.co.uk and when even opting for free standard delivery it turned up in under 24hrs. Cannot argue with that, and they even threw in the M22x1.5mm blanking plug when i called them to to check availabilty. £30 bargain.
Quick mockup in the engine bay - will come up a bit higher when its mounted, but I can already see why it's so popular with the ITB boys: (excuse the crap pic and garden rake holding the bonnet up)
Also, according to the jungle drums, I hear that we a getting delivery of the new "BTM Performance" engine a week on Friday! whoop! Updates to follow shortly
Cheers,
Nick
182cup & 172 racecar
They fit a treat, just have to extend the bottom bkt on one side. really easy. And cheap.
BMW 330ci sp/ 172Cup
Yes. It looks like a straight forward enough job to me. Ps- thanks to one of your previous posts I was able to find which model of radiator we needed really quickly. Thanks
BMW 330ci sp/ 172Cup
BMW 330ci sp/ 172Cup
Update# 16 - VW Polo radiator installed
Decided to make up the mounting brackets for the new radiator today, prior to the engine coming back at the end of next week.
I followed a brief guide (single paragraph) written by Tony (Burpspeed.com) which helped - thanks Tony! I used the original rubber lower mounts but decided to chop them down to sink the new radiator about 3/4" lower:
Doing this still allows the lower hose to connect and not foul the subframe.
As Tony had stated, the one lower mounting point can be reused and a simple bracket made to extend the other side to match the incread width (2") of the VW rad. A simple zip-tie holds the rubber mount to the new bracket:
A couple of new upper brackets are needed to mount the VW rad to the front cross-member:
I tapped an M6x1.0 thread into the radiator mounting points and used a self-taper for the cross-member:
Job complete - the rad is going no where!
And the car waiting for tomorrow - mounting the oil cooler:
For anyone interested; the VW SE310 (polo 1.4) radiator is about 50mm wider and 100mm shorter than the original Renault item.
One question about the oil cooler mounts - Is the cross member thick enough steel to tap an M6x1.0mm thread or should self-tapping screws hold? As the weight of the cooler is held completly by these i want to get it right first time.
I`m thinking about mounting the cooler towards the drivers side of the car; making sure thats is still behind the lower grill but not obsquring the reduced size radiator too much.
Thanks for reading,
Nick
Decided to make up the mounting brackets for the new radiator today, prior to the engine coming back at the end of next week.
I followed a brief guide (single paragraph) written by Tony (Burpspeed.com) which helped - thanks Tony! I used the original rubber lower mounts but decided to chop them down to sink the new radiator about 3/4" lower:
Doing this still allows the lower hose to connect and not foul the subframe.
As Tony had stated, the one lower mounting point can be reused and a simple bracket made to extend the other side to match the incread width (2") of the VW rad. A simple zip-tie holds the rubber mount to the new bracket:
A couple of new upper brackets are needed to mount the VW rad to the front cross-member:
I tapped an M6x1.0 thread into the radiator mounting points and used a self-taper for the cross-member:
Job complete - the rad is going no where!
And the car waiting for tomorrow - mounting the oil cooler:
For anyone interested; the VW SE310 (polo 1.4) radiator is about 50mm wider and 100mm shorter than the original Renault item.
One question about the oil cooler mounts - Is the cross member thick enough steel to tap an M6x1.0mm thread or should self-tapping screws hold? As the weight of the cooler is held completly by these i want to get it right first time.
I`m thinking about mounting the cooler towards the drivers side of the car; making sure thats is still behind the lower grill but not obsquring the reduced size radiator too much.
Thanks for reading,
Nick
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182cup & 172 racecar
Said it was easy.
