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CTR v Clio Cup





i hate to back the honda bod but ive heard that the ctr is basically an s2000 engine in a slightly milder state of tune with a restricter in or near the exhaust manifold, and apparently removal of this can give an extra 15-20 bhp....

in standard trim there is very little in it.

the honda is a more refined piece of kit but hasnt, in my opinion got that same raw edge of the clio. Also, the engine, whilst powerful, is not as flexible as the clio, if you get caught off guard, ie below 6000 revs, youve lost before youve started.

ctrs are common too - although the cup is going that way...

pugboy
 


CTR looks lovely, has abetter interiorif ur into all those poofy gadgets and millions of buttons! Have u seen the new Type S - thats what a TYPE R is underneath an ugly MPV, at least the 172 is a proper hatch! The172 has 4NM more torque too...............and the CTR costs more, and as standard the extra 28 BHP it has over the 172 is the reason it has a slightly higher top end speed, its torque that accelerates and their is supposely only 0.1 secs beteween the 0-60 times of the CUP172 and CTR - down to driver ability/conditions at the end of the day. For CTR owners to say theyve been beaten by a car with marginally different 0-60 times and in gear acceleration is dillusional!
 
  Renault Laguna Coupe


I test drove both cars in November 2001 - I was going to buy one or the other. I posted my thoughts on the Yahoo 172 group at the time. Heres what I wrote:

Last week I posted my views on the Civic Type R on the Type R group -
they were subsequently cross posted here. This afternoon I took the
opportunity to try the 172. I pretty much had to make my mind up
today, owing to the imminent demise of my current company wheels.

Its bound to be a silver one, I thought, pulling into the garage
(W.A. Lewis, Telford). But no, there was a Flame Red 172, and pretty
splendid it looked too. After a bit of pulling and shoving to find a
reasonable driving position, off we went down the same broken up road surface that had left me so disappointed with the ride of the CTR
last week, No such problems with the Clio; although pretty firm it
doesnt threaten to dislodge your contact lenses, although I do
detect a squeak from somewhere over my right shoulder.

This car has done 200 miles from new, and the engine is stone cold.
It doesnt feel too smooth, but warms up surprisingly quickly. Once
out on the dual carriageway I give it some welly and begin to
undrstand what all the fuss is about. Its maybe not quite as
powerful at the red-line as the CTR, but the torque and HP can be
enjoyed from 4000rpm right through to about 6750, which made the
whole experience much more satisfying.

Out in the country I began to really enjoy driving the 172. It feels
somehow more intimate that the CTR - size matters as they say.
Cornering is pretty flat, and the wide power-band means that mid-
corner changes are unnecessary given a little forethought. I pushed
it harder and harder, but time and time again I failed get to the
limit of the grip that it offers. The steering is a little less
direct than the CTR though, and the gear-lever needs a good yank,
although changing from 3rd to 4th and back again along the country
lanes soon becomes instinctive.

This car is a lot smaller than the CTR, and once Id found enough
space for my 5 10" frame there was very little room left in the rear-seat behind me. Needless to say the boot is similarly miniscule.
Despite this the Clio didnt really feel like a small car to drive -
theres lots of headroom in the front and the steering-wheel and dash
have a big-car feel to them.

Its got lots of goodies - CD autochanger, and a climate control
system which seemed to work really well, as well as driving lights
and a trip computer. The CTR has none of the above, which matters to
me but may matter nought to others. The alloys look a bit heavyweight
to my taste though, the narrower spoked items on the CTR were more my
cuppa.

Returning to the garage for the obligatory post-thrashing cup of
coffee and sales pitch, I was pleasantly surprised to find that I was
suffering none of the Jesus_Im_knackered_let_me_out_of_this_thing
symptoms that Id experienced after driving the CTR. I could live
with this car through the week and enjoy a blast at weekends knowing
that I wouldnt be fed-up with it.

So I ordered one there and then.
 


You get me on brands hatch against your Clios and I will show you why you need a bigger car.... Its the high speed corners not town centre shopping roads your wifes drive on... know what I mean
 
  Corsa 1.3 CDTI


Why do people do this, they come in here and say I have a faster (a) or (b) is much better looking who gives a toss really. Its the weak minded or brain dead who use this approach, it sounds like a primary school brawl, my daddies bigger than yours blah blah blah.

If you responded to this type of petty argument you are no better than the guy/girl who started this off.

Boo Hoo lets all start bitching whos is better or you could take the mature approach and just ignore these petty childish comments and treat it with the contempt it deserves.

Ivan
 


Have a wee look at this mate and watch a CTR getting toasted around a track - ull notice the 172 near the end (once passing the CTR) start to develop a rather impressive lead!!! Note also this is a Mk2 172 and not a cup172! Enjoy.

http://www.sobrerodas.org/movies/splax-vs-ctr.ziphttp://www.sobrerodas.org/movies/splax-vs-ctr.zip

And dont come on here and try to tell us the driver of the CTR wasnt trying...........two cars going head to head = both drivers trying and one loosing (in this case the overpriced enlarged A-Team van that honda ripped of and called the CTR - all they need is a few go faster red stripes and some rocket launchers and presto!!! "I aint getting in no CTR hanibal"....................
 


Quote: Originally posted by Dust on 08 May 2003


Look, we dont need any bread today thanx.


Yeh ive changed my mind, ill ave a couple of Baguettes, 4 Rolls. Any cheese in the back there?? How about u make it for me?? I like em toasted too...
 


Well you can all think what you like but official lap times put the cup behind the CTR in second place. Plus im a good driver not a pussy like in that video, he was not even trying!
 

KDF

  Audi TT Stronic


Nah, in all seriousness I think the CTR is very fast car, slightly faster than the 172.

But I would never buy one cause I cant come to bring myself to "like" its looks..
 

KDF

  Audi TT Stronic


well worth it..

I will add that one to the "CTR vs Clio Retaliation" images folder..
 
  Clio v6


Oh no here we go again LOL

This old and very boring topic raises its head one more time ( and probably not the last )

CTR is for the disabled driver so I will not get into argument with Mr CTR just incase he starts throwing the disability rights book at me.

Being a modern man I have no problems in admitiing I have some GAY friends, and as of last month 4 of them now own CTRs ( a fashion item must have according to thier GAY magazine )

I also doubt the bread van theory. In my day ( and yes I am an old git ) One used to look forward to seeing a bread van.
 


What did I tell u - hed say the driver wasnt trying - typical response when u get a toasting and naturally he would have done it differently - if a Mk2 172 can whip the CTRs ass then a 172CUP will also being lighter and all that...........;)



Dash - hilarious as always!
 
  S2000


Quote: Originally posted by Pugboy on 08 May 2003


i hate to back the honda bod but ive heard that the ctr is basically an s2000 engine in a slightly milder state of tune with a restricter in or near the exhaust manifold, and apparently removal of this can give an extra 15-20 bhp....

in standard trim there is very little in it.

the honda is a more refined piece of kit but hasnt, in my opinion got that same raw edge of the clio. Also, the engine, whilst powerful, is not as flexible as the clio, if you get caught off guard, ie below 6000 revs, youve lost before youve started.

ctrs are common too - although the cup is going that way...

pugboy
Ive raced my boss in his S2000 and there wasnt really anything in it. I inched up on him once but other than that dead even. Ive raced 3 CTRs and mine was slightly faster every time.
 


ok lads before i start i really like the look of the clio and i like the power and handling but i own a ctr... i chose the ctr cos its bigger and has more power etc and it is easy to tune.



Right now on wiht some facts for u, the ctr doesnt need ot be above 6000rpm wot a misconception, the only reaosn i registered and want to post was cos of that comment, the ctr has a fairly flat torque curve and this means that it really never drops short of its 200+nm of torque standard with 90% at 3000rpm. so u cna be ne wher ein the ctr and have power it jsut happens max power is in vtec whihc is above 6000rpm and i bet ure clios have a peak power at 6500rpmish?? am i right? so below that u cant move fast too?? i think u see wot i mean.



Anyways u chose ure clio cos ure like clios, but the comment about a civic being more boyracerish than a clio is ludicris :) hehe enjoy ya cars lads we have a similar bhp per tonne and i believe the ctr can be tunned easier so if u see someone who claims they have higher bhp than the 197 standard they rpob have because with injen cai on my car i have an extra 15bhp increase and with the right set up u cna see with i/h/e a gain of like 50bhp with ecu remapping so u could see 250bhp ctrs with about £1k worth of mods, and then if we start stripping the ctr like the cup it wouldnt be a match.. but as i said as standard they are both really nippy cars.. and if i didnt have the 16k for the ctr i would of got the cup :)



and ctrs being common? where do u live, swindon honda factory ;) nad neither cars are as common as scoobs :) and faults i can think of one mine had really, i ha d a prob wiht the alarm and it was fixed asap, not really a prob wiht the car jsut its gadgetry ;)



Ne ways lads ncie cars hope u enjoy em take care and drive safe :)



Bryan Celentano

Honda Civic Type-R owner
 
  Golf GTI Ed30


I think that sums this disscusion up in my opinion. Otherwise it could go on for ever. Between a CTR and a Cup ( not the 172 ) its down to the driver over who wins up to a ton in my opinion. Both great cars. Each to there own.

By the way, correct me if im wrong. But that was a mk1 172 in the vid not a mk2. Thought you boys would have known that?
 


The CTR is a good hot hatch etc blah, blah. But I honestly see more of them in Cardiff than I ever see of VTRs. Thats not meant to be offensive, just representative of what cars people drive in this part of the world. Same with Mk1 Scoobies too.
 


I too see alot more CTRs in the Hertforshire area. Obviously, a good car otherwise people wouldnt buy them. Before I bought the Clio, I had the choice of getting a CTR, but for the money the Clio was better value and there wasnt a huge difference in performance. Plus insurance is cheaper for the Clio. Although their looks have grown on me, theres more to a car than just speed.
 


MK1 or Mk2 - it still won - and we all know that winning is winning whether its by an inch or mile.................;)
 


in southend essex i see more clip sports than ctrs i think i have seen 5 ctrs, and i speak to them on the ent, and i have seen a couple of dozen clio sports, its jsut down to how rich the area is, and also how much press coverage the car gets, if it gets a lot of good like ctr has then it iwll be brought.
 


Quote: Originally posted by CUPSIZE? on 09 May 2003


MK1 or Mk2 - it still won - and we all know that winning is winning whether its by an inch or mile.................;)
Yeah but the CTR was not a very good driver and the Clio driver was going some...... Im sorry but I know what car I would rather be in did you see that Clio lean? jesus that must have been on the limit of handling the CTR was not even blinking an eye lid....
 


Quote: Originally posted by RobFenn on 09 May 2003


CTRs dont handle.

-Rob
Well every review I have read in every magazine and internet review says otherwise... In a magazine it beats the 172 Cup round a track by a second... Im sorry Rob but your wrong.
 


Well thats a prize worthy blag, i have reviews of autocar, auto express, evo etc and also the best review of them all, me! At the end of the day ive driven a both a 172 and CTR back to back and i KNOW whats the best, im not claiming to be Micheal Schumacher but i know what is a good car and whats not.

I can only presume CTR owners have :

a) never driven a 172

b) have never driven a good performance car to compare

c) cant drive well to save their lives.

To quote from autocar, which im in full agreement with, they might as well throw the whole steering assembly away and start again. I think autocar said something like they might as well use a rudder. heh

-Rob
 


Dont know what kinda CTR you had driven Robfenn but they have bags of grip, then are very predictable on the limit and for the more advanced driver they are very good for lift off oversteer for thoses who dare. Yes it took me a while to learn the car as the steering seems to be dull but really it does have all the feedback you need ( I know exactly if wheels are losing grip and if i can hammer it more) you just got to get used to it. As I have said I have not had a Clio Cup ever beat me on a straight or twistys. Im not saying I thrashed them but I have finnished with a lots more car lengths......
 


Quote: Originally posted by CTR-219Bhp on 09 May 2003

and for the more advanced driver they are very good for lift off oversteer for thoses who dare.



What?

You rate pace over enjoyment, says it all.

-Rob
 


Heh, I presume you were referring to my boy racerish comment Bryan?

I didnt mean it in a bad way, it was meant in a way that the CTR has the "faster" look to it. Bigger alloys, sportier skirts etc. I wasnt meaning it was for boy racers or that it was a Nova :) The 172 is only subtly different to the standard clio (sometimes a shame it doesnt stand out more) where as the CTR does stand out more compared to the standard Civics.

To the untrained eye they would spot a civic being a CTR easier than a clio being a 172.

I never had the option of buying a CTR when I got my 172 as they were not out, wonder which I would have bought? Now I would say a 172 but a non-biased me I dont know. But I do love my Clio and wouldnt change it.
 


hello

i have a ctr and am a member of some ctr/honda forums - one of which has a link to this thread. I thought that some the posts about this ongoing and pointless argument were blinkered on the ctr forum. Its nice to know that some clio drivers are just as narrow minded!

as far as ive read theres nowt in it, its down to driver ability - plain and simple - i embarrased a focus aRSe driver a couple of weeks back - only because he was a muppet though

theres no point getting personal about it either - e.g. my other cars a tvr so i know i can drive - blah blah blah!

both good cars both quick, but not the quickest, both not the top pick of current motoring magazines, and both reasonably priced.

stop arguing the toss - its really pointless

ash..
 


I take it the driver of the CTR isnt a mate of yours then? How do know hes a bad driver? Typical - Im sure you would have won though of course! Anyhow 172CUP = Trackcar, CTR = Breadvan..................and you cant say that the CTR driver wasnt trying - of course he was - do you really think he wanted to loose?:D
 


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