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DC2 TypeR / E36 328i
Re: E36 v2
Awesome mate!
Awesome mate!
DC2 TypeR / E36 328i
Re: E36 v2
So why do we go for 328i over M3 then lads?
So why do we go for 328i over M3 then lads?
Re: E36 v2
Much cheaper to buy in the first place, engines are ten to a penny and M50 Manifold + Generic remap makes 235hp+. For a clean 3.0 you're easily talking double the price of a clean 328i (going from what we've paid), 3.2 even more. Its ideal all the bits are interchangeable, and the common M3 bits cheap to pick up (brakes, diffs etc) if you know where to look.
Much cheaper to buy in the first place, engines are ten to a penny and M50 Manifold + Generic remap makes 235hp+. For a clean 3.0 you're easily talking double the price of a clean 328i (going from what we've paid), 3.2 even more. Its ideal all the bits are interchangeable, and the common M3 bits cheap to pick up (brakes, diffs etc) if you know where to look.
Re: E36 v2
Do you not need more than just an M50 inlet and remap to get to 230ish? I was under the impression you needed US M3 cams, exhaust and an enclosed filter to make those sort of figures?
Is there any torque loss with the manifold swap? From what I've read you lose a little bit of low down power and since I use mine for a daily I don't really want that.
Do you not need more than just an M50 inlet and remap to get to 230ish? I was under the impression you needed US M3 cams, exhaust and an enclosed filter to make those sort of figures?
Is there any torque loss with the manifold swap? From what I've read you lose a little bit of low down power and since I use mine for a daily I don't really want that.
Re: E36 v2
You should break 230hp with a map and inlet (AC and viscous fan delete). We'l see in the next week or two, going to RR it to get a baseline to compare it against my other that made 203hp completely stock.
US M3 Cams and M3 exhaust take it further, but then the generic map really does not cover it IMO, you cant get everything into one generic flash map. With a proper map people are hitting 250hp+ with those mods @ higher RPM. Decent filter can help, but many have proven to make the same power on a debaffled stock airbox etc. I doubt I will ever bother looking into the US cams or exhaust manifolds, its comparable to my Mk1 Clio as it is to be honest. The US Spec cams are hard enough to find, and the manifolds hold strong money (as well as needing the complete exhaust to match the bore to the back). Soon adds up!
The lack of torque is not as noticeable as people make out, especially on the road. In the video from Blyton, on the back straight coming out of the chicane it was most predominant... it sort of bogs down then all of a sudden picks up really quickly. The generic map rectifies this, and raises the limiter, as frankly 6500rpm is pants.
You should break 230hp with a map and inlet (AC and viscous fan delete). We'l see in the next week or two, going to RR it to get a baseline to compare it against my other that made 203hp completely stock.
US M3 Cams and M3 exhaust take it further, but then the generic map really does not cover it IMO, you cant get everything into one generic flash map. With a proper map people are hitting 250hp+ with those mods @ higher RPM. Decent filter can help, but many have proven to make the same power on a debaffled stock airbox etc. I doubt I will ever bother looking into the US cams or exhaust manifolds, its comparable to my Mk1 Clio as it is to be honest. The US Spec cams are hard enough to find, and the manifolds hold strong money (as well as needing the complete exhaust to match the bore to the back). Soon adds up!
The lack of torque is not as noticeable as people make out, especially on the road. In the video from Blyton, on the back straight coming out of the chicane it was most predominant... it sort of bogs down then all of a sudden picks up really quickly. The generic map rectifies this, and raises the limiter, as frankly 6500rpm is pants.
Re: E36 v2
That's fair enough then. I'm more than happy at the moment It just feels slightly strangled at the top end. Power tails off very quickly! Thanks for the info anyway
That's fair enough then. I'm more than happy at the moment It just feels slightly strangled at the top end. Power tails off very quickly! Thanks for the info anyway
Re: E36 v2
SR20 up against the bulkhead, I knew them well enough from doing the E30. 1/2JZ are big money in comparison, SR20 are plentiful and easy to extract power from with bolt on mods. Got bored, realised the chassis was knackered so moved on basically!
SR20 up against the bulkhead, I knew them well enough from doing the E30. 1/2JZ are big money in comparison, SR20 are plentiful and easy to extract power from with bolt on mods. Got bored, realised the chassis was knackered so moved on basically!
Re: E36 v2
Just want to get as much use as I can out of it, especially now I know all the bushings/suspension are spot on. Engines are cheap, reliable, widely available and swappable in a few hours if anything ever did happen. Engine and box can be had for £150-200, compared to an M3 engine your talking nearly £1k without a gearbox. All well and good swapping engines if you have the time (don't at the moment!), and time to thoroughly test it/develop it, but I just want something that works at the moment!
Just want to get as much use as I can out of it, especially now I know all the bushings/suspension are spot on. Engines are cheap, reliable, widely available and swappable in a few hours if anything ever did happen. Engine and box can be had for £150-200, compared to an M3 engine your talking nearly £1k without a gearbox. All well and good swapping engines if you have the time (don't at the moment!), and time to thoroughly test it/develop it, but I just want something that works at the moment!
Re: E36 v2
Another epic thread as always!
Another epic thread as always!
Re: E36 v2
Yeah, it would help but its not really a priority yet. I ended up selling the two Cobras that I had in the Mk1, see what happens over winter.
Handful of things done since Blyton, but not got round to updating this yet. Just need to replace the RS-R before Oulton.
Yeah, it would help but its not really a priority yet. I ended up selling the two Cobras that I had in the Mk1, see what happens over winter.
Handful of things done since Blyton, but not got round to updating this yet. Just need to replace the RS-R before Oulton.
E36 v2
Jord, haven't looked through the thread but if you're using M3 calipers are you interested in a pretty much new set of Carbon Lorraine RC5's for the BMW?
Nick
Jord, haven't looked through the thread but if you're using M3 calipers are you interested in a pretty much new set of Carbon Lorraine RC5's for the BMW?
Nick
DC2 TypeR / E36 328i
Re: E36 v2
How is Blyton as a track? It isn't too far from me - I wonder if I can squeeze a trackday in before Xmas..
How is Blyton as a track? It isn't too far from me - I wonder if I can squeeze a trackday in before Xmas..
DC2 TypeR / E36 328i
Re: E36 v2
27th of this month is £109, will see how nice payday is tomorrow!
You got that CC off yet
27th of this month is £109, will see how nice payday is tomorrow!
You got that CC off yet
Re: E36 v2
Soon
So after Blyton the car seemed to be tapping quite a bit, as if the oil was too thin after getting it really hot. It was on 5w30. The grade varies for these engines depending on climates, age, mileage, the usual. Many people run 5w40 or 10w40 all year round. After some reading, and literally every post suggesting different things, I decided to go with crude like 15w40 - more so because Whiteley has a supply of it!
I wanted to be able to see what pressure/temperatures the oil was getting to on track because of this too, well worth knowing, especially on the higher milage engines. Made a purchase:
Brilliant bit of kit, with their software it gives programmable temperature ranges, pressure display and warnings. I wanted it all on one gauge and this is the one that stood out in quality.
Next was to decide how I was going to go about fitting the two senders to the engine. The M52 has an Oil Pressure Sensor on the back of the oil filter housing, which is M12x1.5. It also has a Vanos feed line, which is M14x1.5 on a banjo bolt. I considered running the temperature sender in the sump plug, but didn't want to be f*cking round with wires every time I wanted to change the oil.
I decided to run the temperature sender from the original M12x1.5 Oil Pressure Switch location, with it always having a good flow of oil past it at full pressure. I got an M12x1.5 > 1/8 NPT fitting and put that in.
The only other location to use for the gauge pressure sender was the Vanos line port - so I went about making my own Vanos oil line to replace the BMW one. I didn't want to mount the pressure sender directly off the engine due to vibration etc, so the pressure sender needed to be on a remote line too.
Purchased some AN fittings, stainless braided Teflon hose, and some adaptors.
What I ended up using was: M14x1.5 > -AN4 ----> -AN4 Take Off Adaptor (1/8 NPT) ----> -AN4 120Degree Fitting ----> Stainless Hose ----> -AN4 M14 Banjo
Original Pressure Sensor/Vanos Feed
M14x1.5 > -AN4 Adaptor
M12x1.5 > 1/8 NPT Adaptor for Temperature Sender
AN4 Line Assembled
Fitted with new crush washers on the banjo..
Mounted the pressure sender at the back of the engine bay on an unused bracket..
Ran the wires through the grommet that the alarm wiring uses, plenty of room there. Up the back of the dash to the gauge and wired it up. I have a 52mm gauge pod cut up and mounted in the middle of the clocks. Replaced the filter and filled it up with the 15w40. Ran it for a couple of minutes to check for leaks, and had none, all good!
Thankfully the engine is healthy, returning 60psi cold idle. Ran it up to operating temperature and it got 20-23psi warm idle. It makes full pressure (60psi) by 3,000rpm, which is great. Good enough for me!
I will upload some pictures of the gauge in the daylight at some point, along with a couple of other things that have been done. More soon
27th of this month is £109, will see how nice payday is tomorrow!
You got that CC off yet
Soon
So after Blyton the car seemed to be tapping quite a bit, as if the oil was too thin after getting it really hot. It was on 5w30. The grade varies for these engines depending on climates, age, mileage, the usual. Many people run 5w40 or 10w40 all year round. After some reading, and literally every post suggesting different things, I decided to go with crude like 15w40 - more so because Whiteley has a supply of it!
I wanted to be able to see what pressure/temperatures the oil was getting to on track because of this too, well worth knowing, especially on the higher milage engines. Made a purchase:
Brilliant bit of kit, with their software it gives programmable temperature ranges, pressure display and warnings. I wanted it all on one gauge and this is the one that stood out in quality.
Next was to decide how I was going to go about fitting the two senders to the engine. The M52 has an Oil Pressure Sensor on the back of the oil filter housing, which is M12x1.5. It also has a Vanos feed line, which is M14x1.5 on a banjo bolt. I considered running the temperature sender in the sump plug, but didn't want to be f*cking round with wires every time I wanted to change the oil.
I decided to run the temperature sender from the original M12x1.5 Oil Pressure Switch location, with it always having a good flow of oil past it at full pressure. I got an M12x1.5 > 1/8 NPT fitting and put that in.
The only other location to use for the gauge pressure sender was the Vanos line port - so I went about making my own Vanos oil line to replace the BMW one. I didn't want to mount the pressure sender directly off the engine due to vibration etc, so the pressure sender needed to be on a remote line too.
Purchased some AN fittings, stainless braided Teflon hose, and some adaptors.
What I ended up using was: M14x1.5 > -AN4 ----> -AN4 Take Off Adaptor (1/8 NPT) ----> -AN4 120Degree Fitting ----> Stainless Hose ----> -AN4 M14 Banjo
Original Pressure Sensor/Vanos Feed
M14x1.5 > -AN4 Adaptor
M12x1.5 > 1/8 NPT Adaptor for Temperature Sender
AN4 Line Assembled
Fitted with new crush washers on the banjo..
Mounted the pressure sender at the back of the engine bay on an unused bracket..
Ran the wires through the grommet that the alarm wiring uses, plenty of room there. Up the back of the dash to the gauge and wired it up. I have a 52mm gauge pod cut up and mounted in the middle of the clocks. Replaced the filter and filled it up with the 15w40. Ran it for a couple of minutes to check for leaks, and had none, all good!
Thankfully the engine is healthy, returning 60psi cold idle. Ran it up to operating temperature and it got 20-23psi warm idle. It makes full pressure (60psi) by 3,000rpm, which is great. Good enough for me!
I will upload some pictures of the gauge in the daylight at some point, along with a couple of other things that have been done. More soon
Re: E36 v2
The car had recently had a radiator when I bought it, yet it had already started leaking. Turns out it was a cheap pattern part, over the last couple of weeks the split has been getting worse..
I decided to just buy a proper alloy one to replace it with, rather than f*ck around with second hand efforts or cheap copies. Buy cheap, buy twice, right?
Replacement alloy M3 radiator, which has a much thicker core (42mm), and is wider than the non-M3 radiator. The reason its wider is they do not have a header tank built onto the side of the radiator, there is a separate header tank on the M3s. Bought one of eBay cheap..
Luckily the US E36s all ran this setup, and its easy to adapt a Euro model to run the external header tank by moving one pipe which went to the radiator, onto the tank. Just means you need a mount for the tank, which is easy enough to fabricate. The last piece in the puzzle was an M3 top radiator hose, quite a bit longer than the non-M3 one.
Started with removing the bumper, plastic bits, old radiator, viscous fan, and complete AC condenser setup (never worked anyway)..
There is usually an electric fan on the front of the air con condenser, which is triggered by a temperature sensor to switch on if needed, but like most E36s mine was siezed solid. They weigh a fair amount too. Removed it at the same time. Tidied up the slam panel somewhat before offering up the new radiator. Fills the entire width of the chassis rails whilst still retaining the standard mounts..
As I didn't want to run the viscous fan anymore, or the siezed electric E36 one, I picked up a cheap slimline 14" electric one like I've used before. Only issue was I didn't want to go poking holes through a brand new alloy radiator, so I quickly made up some mounts.
There is plenty of room in front of the radiator on an E36, so I made use of the parts of the slam panel that are already there. I wanted it as high as possible so its out of the way. Used some 25mm(x)3mm flat bar for the horizontal bars, then painted it all black before mounting the fan.
Popped the header tank at the back of the engine bay, piped it up and refitted the radiator. Ran the engine up to temperature and bled the system, all good. Dark nights now so ran out of time to wire the fan up, will have to do it some other time. More bits to go on in conjunction with this, so will update as and when!
The car had recently had a radiator when I bought it, yet it had already started leaking. Turns out it was a cheap pattern part, over the last couple of weeks the split has been getting worse..
I decided to just buy a proper alloy one to replace it with, rather than f*ck around with second hand efforts or cheap copies. Buy cheap, buy twice, right?
Replacement alloy M3 radiator, which has a much thicker core (42mm), and is wider than the non-M3 radiator. The reason its wider is they do not have a header tank built onto the side of the radiator, there is a separate header tank on the M3s. Bought one of eBay cheap..
Luckily the US E36s all ran this setup, and its easy to adapt a Euro model to run the external header tank by moving one pipe which went to the radiator, onto the tank. Just means you need a mount for the tank, which is easy enough to fabricate. The last piece in the puzzle was an M3 top radiator hose, quite a bit longer than the non-M3 one.
Started with removing the bumper, plastic bits, old radiator, viscous fan, and complete AC condenser setup (never worked anyway)..
There is usually an electric fan on the front of the air con condenser, which is triggered by a temperature sensor to switch on if needed, but like most E36s mine was siezed solid. They weigh a fair amount too. Removed it at the same time. Tidied up the slam panel somewhat before offering up the new radiator. Fills the entire width of the chassis rails whilst still retaining the standard mounts..
As I didn't want to run the viscous fan anymore, or the siezed electric E36 one, I picked up a cheap slimline 14" electric one like I've used before. Only issue was I didn't want to go poking holes through a brand new alloy radiator, so I quickly made up some mounts.
There is plenty of room in front of the radiator on an E36, so I made use of the parts of the slam panel that are already there. I wanted it as high as possible so its out of the way. Used some 25mm(x)3mm flat bar for the horizontal bars, then painted it all black before mounting the fan.
Popped the header tank at the back of the engine bay, piped it up and refitted the radiator. Ran the engine up to temperature and bled the system, all good. Dark nights now so ran out of time to wire the fan up, will have to do it some other time. More bits to go on in conjunction with this, so will update as and when!
welshname
ClioSport Club Member
Re: E36 v2
Not sure how I didn't spot this thread, Jord.
Great work as always and it's always nice to see pictures of the work as you're going along. Too many project threads on here now just consist of pictures of a finished product.
Not sure how I didn't spot this thread, Jord.
Great work as always and it's always nice to see pictures of the work as you're going along. Too many project threads on here now just consist of pictures of a finished product.
Re: E36 v2
That's just usually when people get someone else to do the work... just like all the track car threads when the cars never been on track :clown:
Compared to previous threads I've not bothered going into as much detail with this, but some serious hours have been ploughed into it over the past few months to get it mechanically perfect suspension and running gear wise - theoretically a brand new car underneath, which came good when it first went out and I was shocked with how it drove. I've stuck with BMW for a reason... being they are well designed and thought out from a maintenance aspect, you never come to do a job and think 'why the f*ck did they do that?' as you do with Clios, etc.
That's just usually when people get someone else to do the work... just like all the track car threads when the cars never been on track :clown:
Compared to previous threads I've not bothered going into as much detail with this, but some serious hours have been ploughed into it over the past few months to get it mechanically perfect suspension and running gear wise - theoretically a brand new car underneath, which came good when it first went out and I was shocked with how it drove. I've stuck with BMW for a reason... being they are well designed and thought out from a maintenance aspect, you never come to do a job and think 'why the f*ck did they do that?' as you do with Clios, etc.
sbridgey
ClioSport Club Member
disco 4, 182, Meglio
Re: E36 v2
That was my favourite part about owning my 328, nothing was a particularly hard job. Does the refresh get rid of the heavy floaty feeling they have?
That was my favourite part about owning my 328, nothing was a particularly hard job. Does the refresh get rid of the heavy floaty feeling they have?
welshname
ClioSport Club Member
Re: E36 v2
Yeah I helped Oli (not sure if you've met him) when he was doing a lot of stripping down and rebuilding the M3 evo.
Everything came off with relative ease and like you said everything just made sense... Apart from the lollipop bushes. Replaced those for powerflex items and it took a LOT of effort to get the bush over the wishbone enough so the two bolt holes for the lollipop would line up to the chassis correctly.
They are the only thing that I looked at and thought "why the f**k would you do this you silly Germans".
Yeah I helped Oli (not sure if you've met him) when he was doing a lot of stripping down and rebuilding the M3 evo.
Everything came off with relative ease and like you said everything just made sense... Apart from the lollipop bushes. Replaced those for powerflex items and it took a LOT of effort to get the bush over the wishbone enough so the two bolt holes for the lollipop would line up to the chassis correctly.
They are the only thing that I looked at and thought "why the f**k would you do this you silly Germans".
Re: E36 v2
I know the exact feeling you mean, my blue one was horrible, and it used to sway/wobble about when under hard cornering loads. I cant describe the difference replacing everything has made, its the complete opposite. Solid, precise, fantastic feedback and the proper alignment just brought it all together. Really is a fun car to drive - hopefully get a lot of days in it next year.
I know exactly what you mean, I had the same problem on the E30s with the Powerflex lollipops too ha. The easiest way I ended up finding to do it was a long screwdriver through the lollipop, into the thread, and lever it into place so you can at least get one bolt in. Once tightened it pulls itself onto the dowels in the chassis. I think its just down to the wishbone being a tight fit on the bush, as the standard bushes on my E46 were a piece of cake!
I know the exact feeling you mean, my blue one was horrible, and it used to sway/wobble about when under hard cornering loads. I cant describe the difference replacing everything has made, its the complete opposite. Solid, precise, fantastic feedback and the proper alignment just brought it all together. Really is a fun car to drive - hopefully get a lot of days in it next year.
I know exactly what you mean, I had the same problem on the E30s with the Powerflex lollipops too ha. The easiest way I ended up finding to do it was a long screwdriver through the lollipop, into the thread, and lever it into place so you can at least get one bolt in. Once tightened it pulls itself onto the dowels in the chassis. I think its just down to the wishbone being a tight fit on the bush, as the standard bushes on my E46 were a piece of cake!
sbridgey
ClioSport Club Member
disco 4, 182, Meglio
Re: E36 v2
The main reason for selling was the floaty wobbly feeling it had. But this reassures me if I was to ever get another one, which at the moment is looking doubtful.
The main reason for selling was the floaty wobbly feeling it had. But this reassures me if I was to ever get another one, which at the moment is looking doubtful.
Re: E36 v2
Yeah, well its not an easy job by any means, takes quite some time too. Id estimate a good 6-7 hours in fully stripping it down off the car, cleaning, removing old bushes, then however long to paint (or powdercoat in my case) and then fitting the new bushes and building it up (including having a press, without one you'd have no chance). The fun starts when you come to put it on the car, fitting the diff, shafts, the list goes on. I think it would be approx 20-25 hours of work before you've even considered getting it aligned... imagine the labour cost on that!
Yeah, well its not an easy job by any means, takes quite some time too. Id estimate a good 6-7 hours in fully stripping it down off the car, cleaning, removing old bushes, then however long to paint (or powdercoat in my case) and then fitting the new bushes and building it up (including having a press, without one you'd have no chance). The fun starts when you come to put it on the car, fitting the diff, shafts, the list goes on. I think it would be approx 20-25 hours of work before you've even considered getting it aligned... imagine the labour cost on that!
BMW E36 328
BMW E36 328
Re: E36 v2
If you mean fresh air shots with the hammer, 'can't do it' being said every 10 minutes, and watching how its meant to be done, then yes! :clown:
just need a good good friend to lend a hand
If you mean fresh air shots with the hammer, 'can't do it' being said every 10 minutes, and watching how its meant to be done, then yes! :clown:
