E36 3.0 ITB Race Build

[f0xy]

Re: E36 v2

216hp. I will upload the graphs later. We put the old graph from the Blue E36 (Non M50 inlet, etc) over the top of it and you can clearly see the difference it makes. I guess peak power is slightly down compared to other cars of the same spec but its to be expected from a Nikasil 180k block with slightly low compression I guess!

 

[NickMelson]

Re: E36 v2

Great thread, Some serious hours gone into this.
So tempted to get rid of the cup for a 328, Such a hard decision! My only concern is buying one and the back end needs attention and I end up having to fork out a shed load of money on it.

 

[f0xy]

Re: E36 v2

So continuing from the RR video, here are a couple of graphs..

Ended up making 216hp/205lbft..

Then we put the graph over the top of the other E36, without the M50 inlet..

Quite some difference. Lost 10lbft, but gained much more peak power. Its actually revving to 7300rpm, but the power tails off so quite pointless. Handy to have the revs though as we found at Oulton Park yesterday. Update on that later

 

[TimR26]

Re: E36 v2

Great build thread Jord

 

[f0xy]

Re: E36 v2

Went to Oulton Park on Saturday - so the night before I fitted some RC5+ front pads (to replace the Yellow Stuffs), checked a few bits over and filled it with fuel. I had already got a replacement tyre fitted after Blyton, so I was hoping for a dry day to use the RS-Rs again.

Noise test came back at 95db, which was good. Still running the standard cats and silencers.

Got very lucky with the weather and had a completely dry day. Unfortunate about the amount of stoppages in the morning, but its to be expected with the amount of cars booked on.

Once again the car exceeded all expectations and ran flawlessly all day, it really is a brilliant setup with great feedback. Had to top up the oil a bit at lunchtime, but the oil cooler worked perfectly keeping the temperatures under 100C all day long, and it was still making full oil pressure by 3k (60psi). Managed to get over 170miles on track even with numerous stoppages, even more than we used to get in the Clios on a full day.

Whiteley as sharing the driving throughout the day also, so the video has mixed clips of both..



So it really needs nothing doing to it now. Brakes could do with bleeding, but it could literally go on all day long without issue. It lacked a bit of power in a few places, like pulling up the hill in 3rd after Shell but it doesn't warrant doing anything for that. Gearing was great, brakes were great, car was awesome. What more can you ask from an 185k+ mile motor?

 

[DanielJames]

Re: E36 v2

Car looks awesome mate, looks almost at home on track.

How were the RC5s? I've just picked up a barely used set to try out on the 'teg.

 

[f0xy]

Re: E36 v2

Car looks awesome mate, looks almost at home on track.

How were the RC5s? I've just picked up a barely used set to try out on the 'teg.

They were great. Stopping power was plenty with the bigger master cylinder/calipers/discs. The previous Yellow Stuffs were fine, id compare those to DS2500s, but CL's are the next step up. I used the RC6's in the other E36, brilliant again but really dusty and noisy. The RC5's came from Nick172Cup on here, removed from his M3. Probably going to need to swap the discs out by the time next year comes, but in no rush for that.

Just replied to your PM about the expansion tank.

 

[Ph1 Tom]

Re: E36 v2

Very interesting! Didn't realise the inlet/map made that much difference.

After seeing it out on Saturday I'm very impressed. It seems so composed as well.

 

[matt_132]

Re: E36 v2

That whine is epic! Great work.

 

[f0xy]

Re: E36 v2

Very interesting! Didn't realise the inlet/map made that much difference.

After seeing it out on Saturday I'm very impressed. It seems so composed as well.

Its one of the 'must do' sub £100 mods really. The map to suit makes it better again. It would probably make more power/torque with a stronger engine compression wise but it still runs sweet so there isn't any need to mess about for now. It's really well balanced when on the limit

 

[DanielJames]

Re: E36 v2

Managed to get that bottle off last night bud, effort! Although afters seeing how much replacement Nissens ones are I'm in two minds whether or not just to replace the full thing.

 

[f0xy]

Re: E36 v2

Managed to get that bottle off last night bud, effort! Although afters seeing how much replacement Nissens ones are I'm in two minds whether or not just to replace the full thing.

Cool. Yeah sometimes its for the best - mine was split down the side where the core joints the casing on the expansion tank side as per the picture further back in the thread. Had a few go like that.


I put a clip together last night to compare the E36 against my old Mk1 F4R, interesting watch.



Very similar pace, but the E36 corners way faster/smoother even being much heavier. So much more balanced.

 

[TimR26]

Re: E36 v2

Mk1 looks quicker to me considering you're being held up by Adam.

Bet you weren't pushing the E36 anywhere near as hard as Mk1 though.

 

[f0xy]

Re: E36 v2

Mk1 looks quicker to me considering you're being held up by Adam.

Some things never change :clown:

On an empty track it may be, but it looses much more speed 'in-corner' in comparison. Its very close either way, not at all bad considering the E36 still has most of its interior in!

 

[JoeyD]

Re: E36 v2

Is there any reason why you've chosen not to gut the interior? All your previous track cars have been thoroughly stripped and caged etc. Just wondering!

 

[f0xy]

Re: E36 v2

I don't plan on fitting a cage anytime soon or anything like that, and in reality its not going to save me 'that' much weight. Front seats are the bulk of it, dashboard isn't worth removing etc. If I was fitting it cage it would be worthwhile for access (and to cancel out the weight of all the tube going in!) but no plans to in the foreseeable future. Planning on doing at least one track day in Europe next year so I don't want to be deaf upon arrival :clown:

 

[Slammed172]

Re: E36 v2

Fantastic thread. Top work as usual.

Any reason you went and got a full geo instead of the ol' fishing wire

 

[f0xy]

Re: E36 v2

Fantastic thread. Top work as usual.

Any reason you went and got a full geo instead of the ol' fishing wire

One reason really..

Clio = Front Toe + Camber adjustment, easy to get near-ish with wire
E36 = Rear Toe + Camber, Front Toe + Camber + Castor (not to mention the big difference in track width!)

It really did make a night and day difference. I thought I got it 'close', but when it actually went on the alignment system it was f*cking way way out LOL. Not a chance you could get it anywhere near DIY to be honest!

 

[JoeyD]

Re: E36 v2

I don't plan on fitting a cage anytime soon or anything like that, and in reality its not going to save me 'that' much weight. Front seats are the bulk of it, dashboard isn't worth removing etc. If I was fitting it cage it would be worthwhile for access (and to cancel out the weight of all the tube going in!) but no plans to in the foreseeable future. Planning on doing at least one track day in Europe next year so I don't want to be deaf upon arrival :clown:

Fair answer!
This project seems to be a little less "all-out" than your previous ones. And I'm not trying to say you've skimped in any way, because there's clearly been a lot of time and money spent, I just get the impression that you've learnt a lot from the Clio and previous couple of BMW's and have stuck to what makes the biggest difference to the way it drives. As much as I love reading proper balls out track builds etc, this kind of thing is much more appealing to me and probably a lot of other people because it's a lot more attainable!
Cracking stuff.

 

[f0xy]

Re: E36 v2

Fair answer!
This project seems to be a little less "all-out" than your previous ones. And I'm not trying to say you've skimped in any way, because there's clearly been a lot of time and money spent, I just get the impression that you've learnt a lot from the Clio and previous couple of BMW's and have stuck to what makes the biggest difference to the way it drives. As much as I love reading proper balls out track builds etc, this kind of thing is much more appealing to me and probably a lot of other people because it's a lot more attainable!
Cracking stuff.

Exactly hit the nail on the head^. The whole reason I wanted to rebuild the entire running gear set up was to get the car driving as well as it would have 15 years ago from factory, and then some again.

I'd probably say I've put more time into this than the Clio up to this point in ownership, but thats with doing the bits that matter and making sure its reliable as it can be. IMO anyone can do it if they put the time into it, I had never taken a wheel off a car until I had my first Clio... done some crazy things since then.

 

[mini_nick]

Re: E36 v2

Nice driving, car looks really well on track, that Nissan GtiR had odd lines! looks like it was holding you up a fair bit!

 

[f0xy]

Re: E36 v2

Yep, just a typical day driver - has more power but can't drive for sh*t... boost on the straights, hold everyone up in the corners

 

[LIL B]

Re: E36 v2

Its a track day.
Not a race shake down x

 

[DanielJames]

Re: E36 v2

Jord quick question, and apologies if I've asked this before

Which version of the HSDs do you have, and how do they ride on day to day comfort? I'm looking for something that will give me adjustable height and damping, but will also still be comfortable at speed and not shake me about, like the RaceLogic ones do on my Integra.

Dan

 

[JoeyD]

Re: E36 v2

I imagine it'd be worth getting the cheaper ones TBH. They're more aimed at daily use AFAIK. Not sure if they're as adjustable as the more expensive ones though so I dunno...
/useful post.

 

[DanielJames]

Re: E36 v2

I imagine it'd be worth getting the cheaper ones TBH. They're more aimed at daily use AFAIK. Not sure if they're as adjustable as the more expensive ones though so I dunno...
/useful post.

It's odd you should mention that, there's a guy on E36coupe (or whatever it's called these days) who swears by the JOMs (of all coilovers) as giving almost 90% of comfort that he had from his OEM shocks... I just don't know what to do with myself (badum)

 

[Danith]

Re: E36 v2

Jord whereabouts are you?

I need to feel the diff between the M50/52 manifold before I buy one pretty please!?

 

[JoeyD]

Re: E36 v2

I've got Joms. They're not as good as HSD's/similar, obviously, but for £180ish they're certainly not bad. I don't drive the car hard though tbh, I imagine they're crap at anything other than pootling/motorway s**t.

Also, you've seen my ride height Dan, I've still got a good 6cm left to go lower. Plus the helper springs are still in. So there's a load of travel.

 

[Danith]

Re: E36 v2

Me? I meant the manifolds soz mate. Mine's already dropped on springs and original wheels exactly where I want it.

 

[JoeyD]

Re: E36 v2

I was replying to the other dan. Lol!

 

[f0xy]

Re: E36 v2

Jord quick question, and apologies if I've asked this before

Which version of the HSDs do you have, and how do they ride on day to day comfort? I'm looking for something that will give me adjustable height and damping, but will also still be comfortable at speed and not shake me about, like the RaceLogic ones do on my Integra.

Dan

Mono's, but I've been out in cars with both. There isn't much difference if I'm honest, changing the spring rate would probably do more. Even when mines on full soft it's very firm, but that could be down all the bushes being poly etc. Its firmer than my E46 M-Sport was on their softest setting.

If you are not planning on hammering the track days etc, I'd go with the cheap ones as Joey says, few people I know have run them on E36s without issue on the road. There is no comparison when you need it to work properly for track... but it depends what you are after!

Yes they are definitely a lot more crashy in comparison (over potholes/bumps etc) but its acceptable. At the price they sell them at vs HSDs, the cheap ones are pretty much consumable!

Jord whereabouts are you?

I need to feel the diff between the M50/52 manifold before I buy one pretty please!?

Sure, I'm near J23 on the M6. I'm guessing you might be near the M58/Southport/Rainford Bypass area? PM me.

 

[Danith]

Re: E36 v2

Indeed mate. Around that way, thought you were local.

I'll drop you a message pal.

 

[JoeyD]

Re: E36 v2

Mono's, but I've been out in cars with both. There isn't much difference if I'm honest, changing the spring rate would probably do more. Even when mines on full soft it's very firm, but that could be down all the bushes being poly etc. Its firmer than my E46 M-Sport was on their softest setting.

If you are not planning on hammering the track days etc, I'd go with the cheap ones as Joey says, few people I know have run them on E36s without issue on the road. There is no comparison when you need it to work properly for track... but it depends what you are after!

Yes they are definitely a lot more crashy in comparison (over potholes/bumps etc) but its acceptable. At the price they sell them at vs HSDs, the cheap ones are pretty much consumable!



Sure, I'm near J23 on the M6. I'm guessing you might be near the M58/Southport/Rainford Bypass area? PM me.

Nail. Head.

 

[DanielJames]

Re: E36 v2

Nail. Head.

Where are you from Joey, Northern?

 

[DanielJames]

Re: E36 v2

Mono's, but I've been out in cars with both. There isn't much difference if I'm honest, changing the spring rate would probably do more. Even when mines on full soft it's very firm, but that could be down all the bushes being poly etc. Its firmer than my E46 M-Sport was on their softest setting.

If you are not planning on hammering the track days etc, I'd go with the cheap ones as Joey says, few people I know have run them on E36s without issue on the road. There is no comparison when you need it to work properly for track... but it depends what you are after!

Yes they are definitely a lot more crashy in comparison (over potholes/bumps etc) but its acceptable. At the price they sell them at vs HSDs, the cheap ones are pretty much consumable!

Thanks for the feedback mate... you raise an interesting point!!

Now how about that cruise control...

 

[JoeyD]

Re: E36 v2

Where are you from Joey, Northern?

I'm from Yorkshire originally. Live in Manchester now though. You?

 

[DanielJames]

Re: E36 v2

I'm from Yorkshire originally. Live in Manchester now though. You?

Yorkshire! Live in the West, Pontefract way. Work in the South near Rotherham. Wouldn't mind experiencing the JOMs first hand, I've just checked how much they are on eBay... WTF! TUV approved though? Hmm. Made me think.

 

[Danith]

Re: E36 v2

Manchester? Whereabouts? I'm around there lots.

 

[JoeyD]

Re: E36 v2

Yorkshire! Live in the West, Pontefract way. Work in the South near Rotherham. Wouldn't mind experiencing the JOMs first hand, I've just checked how much they are on eBay... WTF! TUV approved though? Hmm. Made me think.

I'm north east Manchester, so probably not all that far away. Welcome to have a go sometime, although I'm a bit busy this weekend!

Manchester? Whereabouts? I'm around there lots.

As above, North East, in Oldham. Commute to Bury every morning and sometimes I'm around Trafford.

 

[f0xy]

Re: E36 v2

Thanks for the feedback mate... you raise an interesting point!!

Now how about that cruise control...

Il make sure to get round to it this week, lol.