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ecotec may waste fuel





I have been thinking about this ecotec device

ok, here goes

With a vane type (Flap) airflow meter - as used in a lot of older car designs.. it is theoretically possible to allow a small amount of extra unmetered air into the engine via the servo vacuum pipe ..

because this air doesnt pass the airflow vane or flap, the ecu doesnt see it.. the ecu sees less of an air demand and reduces fueling proportionally yep ??

result (providing you are within safe lean running limits (and thats dodgy on its own !!!) then you MAY use a fraction less fuel.. at the risk of running lean mid range..

Ok, now, on most clios, the fuel misture is calculated from a MAP sensor (Manifold absolute pressure) sensor.. there is no air flow flap or vane !.

so, what happens here ??.

well, lets think about it.

extra air is allowed into the induction plenum of the manifold via the servo pipe and ecotec ...

BUT >!!!!!.. it is calculated by the ecu due to it effecting the overall pressure in the manifold ? yep ??.

so, result.. = NOTHING !!!!!.

I therefore pronounce it pointless

all you are doing is adding an air leak in the inlet manifold..


Joe..

think about it and let me know..
 


Sorry, I forgot to add ..

the wasting fuel bit......

as some of this air entering the plenum is not via the throttle plate, and the ecu senses the throttle plate position, then the engine sees a slightly reduced plate angle and fuels less.. the lama sensor sees this and returns the fueling to its internal table value.. effectively adding fuel

which is wasted, because the throttle plate angle isnt corresponding.

Joe..
 
  Skoda Fabia vRS


well Joe, when i had my car chipped at Hill Power, the fuelling was spot on all the time

do you think i should get rid of it

could you explain why my car felt smoother with this device fitted ?
 


I really cant see it doing anything Tony ..

the high pressure venturi effect they quote on their web site already occurs in the engine breather pipes...

I think its snake oil nothing more...

if the device worked at all, manufacturers would be fitting it by the shed load, they aint...



ps, hows the 172 parts deal coming on m8 ?

Joe.
 
  Skoda Fabia vRS


Joe can you come on MSN mate ???

oh an the device needs adjusting, something which i wouldnt wanna be doin if id just bought a new car
 


quote from their site..

(Q) What is an Ecotek CB-26P?

(A) It is a mechanical device that, when fitted to a petrol engine (not Diesel), improves the petrol consumption by as much as 20%, enhances the overall performance and significantly reduces harmful emissions. CB stands for Clean Burn and the 26 confirms that over 2.6 litres an additional device is required. P stands for petrol only.

I mean, cmon.. thats internal combustion nirvana..

20% fuel consumption reduction..
More power
less emissions..

as I said, they would be clamboring at the ecotec gates to get their hands on it... they aint..

read their faq about manufacturers..

NONE have approached them.. why ??.. cos it does diddly - apart from to the mind lol ...

sorry, but this is another of those crazy ideas and devices that are going around.. like magnetic fuel polarisers ?? they promised the earth and deleivered excrement... and the latest fad.. the 12v superchargers.. I damn near wet myself reading about that beauty lol

Joe.
 


Joe
ive only had mine on for a few weeks and there is a slight difference in the fule consumption, nothing to get too excited bout tho.
Ive posted on the other thread bout the 172.
 


Oh capt!!!
really, i said it before and ill say it again!

WILL YOU MAARY ME!!!! ill give it to ya free...none of that grand stuff!
anyway, i have always and will always say that the ecotek is poo!! have been saying it for about 2 yrs now! but nobody believes me!

anyway, i have said its like blowing througha straw in a typhoon! the air injected is soooo minimal!

and it doesnt even run @ WOT....only overrun and light throttle when decreasing engine revs....i hate this thing!

i want my money back!
yes i bought it....yes i hated it, and yes i broke it trying to take it off!!!
 


Heya Ben M8.... I Missed u dood. !

do you wanna buy these packs of dehydrated water I have aquired. ???


Excellent.. fits in a matchbox..... makes 3 bloody litres of the stuff !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!..


just add 3 litres of water !!....

wheres me money ?????.... I should be rich..... beyond me WILDEST dreams...... rich I tell ya...........

Joe...... seriously good to see ya back..... hope the beer was good m8 !!!!!!!!!!! ."align=absmiddle>

Joe
 
  BMW 320d Sport


hehe the problem is with your theories Joe that as usual a lot of people *do* run an Ecotek on their car and are happy with them. Whatever way you try and explain how something cannot possibly work, there are always plenty of people whove *actually done it* and will tell you that it works.

As far as I was aware, the fact that it allows small amounts of air into the inlet manifold is nothing to do with the Ecotek effect. Youre barking up the wrong tree. Before I forget, seeing as you know about the old Clio having a MAP sensor and not an airflow meter, you should have also known that there is no throttle plate signal to the ECU! The engine load is calculated by MAP and engine speed only.

Anyway whatever swirly effect the Ecotek has on the air, I say it works and Ive had one for a long time.
 


ooooooooooo.

well, here goes
Map......... SCNAPPP who cares dood.. its MANIFOLD PRESSURE..... INCLUDING ECOTEC.. so........

I mean.. SO ?????????? lol //

what DOES that mean.... HOW does it do ANYTHING ???

It dont Nick..... and. to answer the question re WHY............ welllll.. its like...... errrr copper wrist nands for travel sickness........ works for me lol !!!...

Rabbits feet

snake oil

and probably most ipmortant of all,,,,,,,,,,,

smoke...... and........ mirrors

cinical..... ???????............. me ??


Joe
 

coolspot007007

ClioSport Club Member
  Seat Leon Cupra


i dont have any idea what the captain/Ben R are on about most of the time when they get all technical. All i know is, i paid my money, installed it, it made an improvement to the pick up lower down the revs, and the smoothness of the accceleration. If your on the motorway i found it gave me a sh!t load economy on my RT which was overfuelling at the time. Ive had an increase in my 16v too, not to the same extent tho. (and it isnt overfuelling)
 
  Corsa 1.3 CDTI


Captain and BenR

I have one on my 172. Now I was a bit sceptical, but hey what the hell it has a 30 day money back guarantee.

I installed it and drove up to York with it off and used 5.3 gallons of petrol. Didnt get caught in any traffic and did use the air-con. (Important points here)

I then turned it on and drove back and used 5.3 gallons, but hold on I got caught in traffic for an hour and had the air-con on most of the time

So I can say on tests I have done it works. However I have seen no difference in performance as I didnt expect this thing to do miracles. I dont think you can even put this petrol saving down to a Placebo effect because I have run tests a few time now and it always saves me petrol at an average speed of 75mph.


The fact is that it works for me and others and has also been proven by the DTI (Department of Transport and Industry) that it works.

From the Ecotek website.

"The most comprehensive independent analysis is the DTI Warren Springs test conducted in real on the road conditions. It should be noted that Warren Springs has since been taken over by the privatised AEA Technologies Plc."


From their website

"(Q) Why wasnt this device fitted to my car by the manufacturers at the factory?

(A) There are a number of reasons for this:

Ecotek Technologies Plc. owns the exclusive Patent rights to the device.
The device has to be individually tuned to each car. This is complicated and expensive if incorporated in the assembly process.

Induction turbulence is a relatively recent development in combustion technology.

Most mass production cars are over engineered and designed more for reliability than efficiency, this device obviously narrows these margins.

Conventional manufacturers see such a device as an additional and unnecessary complication in an already complicated manufacturing process. Their attitude tends to be: ‘if it ain’t broke don’t fix it’.

Emissions and petrol costs have only recently moved to the top of peoples agendas and manufacturers have chosen to tackle these issues through management systems and chemical catalysts. In the long run these can theoretically reduce emissions to much lower levels that the Ecotek device.

In the event the major market of the Ecotek CB-26P is for retrofit to existing cars. Manufacturers of new cars have to chose a different direction because emission regulations will get tighter and tighter for new cars in the future.

We have not been approached by any major manufacturers wishing to incorporate the device in new cars and feel in the light of the above that this is unlikely. We are however in discussion with more than one manufacturer regarding homologation as an approved accessory but are told this is a lengthy process."



Why not go and discuss this on the Eco-Tek forum and maybe you can come to a conclusion, after all you have nothing to loose by discussing it do ya ?

<a target="_blank" href="http://www.ecotekforum.com/phpBB/forum/viewforum.php?forum=1&843" target="_blank"> Ecotek Forum


Captain as you have said to me in the past. Stop being a ludite LOL
 


Hiya M8..



It was downhill on the way back lol.. you cant compare fuel consumption in different directions......

the only way fuel consumption could be tested here is on a dyno m8..

I love the DTI tests by a company that, conveniently, no longer exists or is accountable.

Lets look at the evidence (Through the keyhole voice mode on)

From their website

"(Q) Why wasnt this device fitted to my car by the manufacturers at the factory?

(A) There are a number of reasons for this:

Ecotek Technologies Plc. owns the exclusive Patent rights to the device.
The device has to be individually tuned to each car. This is complicated and expensive if incorporated in the assembly process.

b****cks .. .. the same ecu code is used in each type, and is far more critical.. it could be fitted at manufacturing with ease...

Induction turbulence is a relatively recent development in combustion technology.

b****cks again, thats why mirror finish polishing of induction components went out in the 70s !.. its called swirl and turbulence..

Most mass production cars are over engineered and designed more for reliability than efficiency, this device obviously narrows these margins.

Manufacturers optimise lean running for SAFETY of engine components.. we dont bother about that and create an air leak...

Conventional manufacturers see such a device as an additional and unnecessary complication in an already complicated manufacturing process. Their attitude tends to be: ‘if it ain’t broke don’t fix it’.

means,.... manufacturers have told us to go away as they dont want embarass themselves lol

Emissions and petrol costs have only recently moved to the top of peoples agendas and manufacturers have chosen to tackle these issues through management systems and chemical catalysts. In the long run these can theoretically reduce emissions to much lower levels that the Ecotek device.

Means, that on a modern, lamda closed loop enabled system, the device doesnt work at all...

In the event the major market of the Ecotek CB-26P is for retrofit to existing cars. Manufacturers of new cars have to chose a different direction because emission regulations will get tighter and tighter for new cars in the future.

Again, it doesnt work, but on an old flap sensor, non lama system we can lean it out and save you a minute amount in fuel costs, but, as said above, we will increase the risk of premature damage by adding an airleak..

We have not been approached by any major manufacturers wishing to incorporate the device in new cars and feel in the light of the above that this is unlikely. We are however in discussion with more than one manufacturer regarding homologation as an approved accessory but are told this is a lengthy process."

means, the manufacturers dont even want to consider it as an aftermarket homologated device. so, Fitting it WILL invalidate your warranty



Why not go and discuss this on the Eco-Tek forum and maybe you can come to a conclusion, after all you have nothing to loose by discussing it do ya ?



Captain as you have said to me in the past. Stop being a ludite LOL

Naw m8... this is pure hokum !!! Male Cow Excrement of the highest order.

As said before, your car has a MAP sensor, all air entering is metered. and fueled accordingly.. it CANNOT make any difference at all..

Buyers are looking for improvements, thats all, thats HOW these products sell. Same as fitting a K&N.. more flow ??.. more power or more economy depending on how ya drive. and that dont work well in a properly designed system.

Fridges and Eskimos come to mind here..


Joe.. ludite.. !!
 
  172 Cup, V6 255, Williams


Joe,

Are you sure youre not my twin? Ive been trying to convince people of this for years.

And the 12v supercharger was also very funny.

BTW - Im gonna be ringing u soon about my "conversion" - making good progress, altho Im in the middle of moving workshops at the minute, so yet another spanner in the works!



Paul
 


Lol Paul..

there have been many such devices over the years.. they all died a death .

the supercharger is probably the best I have seen, then the ecotec, followed by the magnetic fuel polariser..

No probs on the conversion m8.. give me a bell.

07970 993503

Joe.
 
  Corsa 1.3 CDTI


Come on Joe, do it !!!!

Id like the guys at Ecotek to fold under your pressure, if you can convince them, then I will get rid of it off my car.

Now theres a deal...
 
  Skoda Fabia vRS


but the ecotec isnt gonna die is it, i see more and more places selling these all the time, its selling a lot mate
 
  Skoda Fabia vRS


id also love to see it

they have always managed to answer every question on there, id love to see you on there
 


There is enough info in their faq and this thread to show that it doesnt, and cant, work.

But, you are welcome to post my comments in their forum if you so wish, thats kewl..

Neither will I go to the manufacturers forum for 12v superchargers and magnetic polarisers and waste hours..

feel free if you are so inclined m8

Joe.
 


I have driven with the ecotek turned on and off and the consumption between petrol stops is always around 30mpg, no better on or off!
When myself and Rich drove to York from Notts, we reset the mpg and found that I was 0.1 mpg worse when we got there!!
My Eco on and Rich without one...
The farting noise is poo as well..!!
 
  Clio 197


Looks like we need a de-programmer here. These guys are all in a cult of some sort that worships the great Ecotec!

I have had friends get caught up in these cult type things and they end up giving a lot of hard earned cash to the charlatans. And they are quite happy to do so and no amount of common sense will change them!

Ed
 
  Corsa 1.3 CDTI


Eddd,

I have already posted, they give you a money back guarantee if you are not happy.

We are not sheep but we are willing to give something a go. If it doesnt work, it does work full stop, it harms no one. Speculate to accumulate and all that
 


Heres my experience:

It certainly does something to the emisions as last night I turned the thing off (testing theories) and the smell from my non- catted exhaust, when backing it up the driveway as per every night, was much more noticeable.

Fuel economy has been a bit better, 30-40km more from €30 of 98oct (town driving), but with aircon and summer traffic its gone back to how it was before fitting. The only quibble I have is that it needs adjusting *very* regularly so Its becoming a pain in the ar$e and might end up in the bin soon (or on the For Sale forum)
 
  Skoda Fabia vRS


oh, an Joe ive took you up on that and posted your original two posts on the Ecotec Forum
 
  172 Cup, V6 255, Williams


BRUN those two tests, were they done at the same place using the same fuel? Also how far apart were they done?

Paul
 


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