Engine conversion news.

[Matt16v]

Just secured the first grand towards my proposed engine conversion (thanks to Dad)

Should have doubled it by August hopefully, not bad considering I pay nearly all of my wages on loans and credit cards!!

Unless Ben convinces me that his 16v mods can compare to a 180+ bhp GTT conversion then thats what Im going for!

 

[riplash]

Willy/Megane out of the question?

 

[cliosportcraig]

180 BHP ? is that all mate ? for 2k plus the conversion you could get 230+

 

[powelly]

woohooo go Matt!! hehe

just think until you spoke to me you werent gonna do it LOL!

im still deciding whether to do it yet or not but we will see just want it for donny south!!

Vix

 

[Matt16v]

I will prob only get £2k including the conversion. So a grand on modding/re-building it.

Neil - I been in a Clio GTT but not a 2.0 so unless I get out in one and think its as good then Im still leaning to the turbo. Also what happens when I get the 2.0 conversion and then get bored with it, Ill have to spend another £1,500 + to get anything more out of it.

Bright side would be to the untrained eye the engine looks exactly the same!

 

[Glennclio16v]

Quote: Originally posted by Matt16v on 03 June 2004


Bright side would be to the untrained eye the engine looks exactly the same!

hehehe thats why im going 2.0!!

Hows your insurance on the GTT?? lol

Also 180+ aint too hard to achieve on a 2.0!! Proper exhaust manifold, decat system, cams and headwork should easily make that if not more!

 

[Glennclio16v]

And Vicky as if youve got your donor car ready and are having second thoughts!!? :s lol

PGH Vicky!! Dont turn back!!

 

[riplash]

Ive not been out in a turbo engined Clio, but I can understand the appeal, a turbo motor feels quick - tuning will be a more instantly gratifying process than milking power out of the F7P/R too -

But theres something I like about the Willy engine.. I like the fact that theres always a fairly good amount of torque about, even low in the revs. I like the fact that none of my mates thought it felt fast, because the power was almost always there, no surge - but I still saw off plenty of cars (inc GTTs!!) in it - I never felt like the power was unwildly, through corners especially (not so in certain turbo cars Ive had the pleasure of!!)

When I went to a magazine photo shoot in Wales, one of the senior writers, having driven Zonda, Ferarri and Porche cars in the same day, stepped from the Williams saying "Why dont they make engines like that any more?"


While a GTT is off boost, it is, essentially, an outdated boggo 1.4 - they also seem to suffer terribly trying to get traction (cant obviously speak for Clio GTTs here) - a lot of my chalk marks for GTTs were from the lights where they just couldnt get away cleanly.

 

[cliosportcraig]

Traction is the worst bit about the GTT, but if you have 16v body you could squeeze some 215s on a pair of 16s and get most of the power down

 

[Matt16v]

Wont be telling the insurance Im with, Ill just keep it insured until I can find some one else to cover me. Should all co-inside that if and when I get it done my policy will be up for re-newall so can change without sacrificing any NCB.

Shouldnt be too bad, a GTT only works out a little more expensive than my valver.

Rockport keeps saying hell take me for a spin in his 2.0 valver but no luck yet, he only lives a few miles away!

Been out briefly in Diamond Geezers Clio GTT and spoken to Torsion Tuning and was impressed though so will need some convincing to stay n/a.

 

[powelly]

NO!!! glenn not having second thoughts about doing it silly! thinking whether to do it yet and run the risk of not being ready for donny south or waiting until winter! LOL!!

as if i would go back!!!!!!!!!!

PGH???? what does that mean?? LOL!

nope shes definately going in but might just bung her int he body shop first and see how im doing for time

Vix

 

[Glennclio16v]

Where are you based Matt?? Ive been out in Jamies (rockport) 2.0 valver and live just down the road from him!!

My valver is going 2.0 hopefully this month (touches wood) at TT!!

If you can wait ill take you for a spin in mine when its done!

 

[Glennclio16v]

Quote: Originally posted by powelly on 03 June 2004


NO!!! glenn not having second thoughts about doing it silly! thinking whether to do it yet and run the risk of not being ready for donny south or waiting until winter! LOL!!

as if i would go back!!!!!!!!!!

PGH???? what does that mean?? LOL!

nope shes definately going in but might just bung her int he body shop first and see how im doing for time

Vix





Ah right!! hehe Good job cos i was gonna give you a good shoeing next time we go out if youd changed your mind!! lol

Fair play anyway missy, would be cool to get it all done for Donny south but i guess body work comes first!

 

[Matt16v]

Im in Chadwell St Mary just next to Grays.

As for a Willy lump with Cams and head work Id need a good chip to get the best and that again would put it right out of my price range, that would prob double what a strait swap would cost.

 

[powelly]

GLENN I thought you knew me better than that lol!!

just so much to do!! going mad cos i wanna get it down i havent slept properly cos im getting worried it wont be finished LMAO!!! silly tart!

 

[Matt16v]

Glenn - what did you think of Jamies 2.0, could you really feel the difference over a 16v?

I know Steves (Diamond Geezers) GTT was a dramatic improvment with smallish mods.

 

[Glennclio16v]

Well when we went for a spin it was a little damp out and it was just spinning the wheels in 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th so the torque is amazing!! lol

even then it felt easily as quick as my valver so in the dry i suspect it would muller it!! lol

The choice of engine is an entirely personal thing though tbh!

I went for 2.0 for the *ahem* cheaper insurance and improved torque all through the revs range!

Ive been out in 5GTTs before and although the turbo kick is fun its also irritating when you suffer the initial lag and you dont get that with a willy - the power is so much more useable!

Granted on a 1/4 run a GTT may well whoop a willy but on the road youd be surprised.

But ultimately if you want the turbo pssssssssssscht and cheaper tuning options then go GTT!

 

[Matt16v]

I always find it funny how any one with a n/a engine gags for a d/v where as people with them take them for granted.

 

[Daz]

Most people get bored of a DV after a month.. I like to hear one every now and again but I think chatter is definetly where its at.. haha.

As for GTT vs 2.0.. Dunno, Ive only driven a Williams.. and never been out in a GTT.. but yea, the power is progressive.. you can plant it low down the revs and you know itll just keep pulling until you get to the red line..

 

[diamond geezer]

must admit, binned my dumpvalve, charge coolers soooooo much better. any way go turbo, nothing better than upsetting bigger engined cars at the lights. the only thing is im not controlled enough to not stuff every thing that tries to race me. he he. go gtt, its the most fun u can have without being arrested.

 

[rockport]

i was just about to post and ask you matt if you were at home ATM to go for a spin in my valver, but just remembered its currently with Andy @ GDI having work done LOL!

You at home now fella? If so fancy meeting up for a quick pint? im not at work today and you owe me some door handles

 

[Ben H]

I think you should try and get a drive in both cars before settling the question.

IMO the Willy lump is great as it will give the car balance, just as a standard GT Turbo lump does in the body of a GT Turbo. Turning up the bhp may lead to a car that is devastatingly quick in a straight line, but what about your local roads?

I used to own what is now Riplashs 16V. It was a belter of an engine with headwork and fuelling mods, making a genuine 155+bhp. But the peak power was available in a short rev range and theres no doubt that the Willy I now have is more suited to my local B-roads.

 

[Matt16v]

I WILL make every effort to go out in a 2.0 before making my mind up as it would be big regrets going as far as a GTT conversion then realising Id of prefered the 2.0!

Im at work mate so cant meet up!

Only ever really available evenings and Sundays at the mo.

 

[Glennclio16v]

hehe

well two of my best mates have had 5GTTs - one tuned the other standard and they both had no end of trouble with them!! And as for another mates escort rst - thats spent more time off the road than on it!!

I think turbos are a fashion fad - particuarly with the apparent love of dump valves!?

Personally i dont want a turbo! I hate turbo lag, and the sound of a dump valve is like fingernails on a chalkboard to me!! lol

NA all the way!!

 

[Smokey]

get the 2.0ltr done fella, honestly its better IMO. I was considering both for a while and the 2.0ltr NA was more my thing what with the Lag.

You will notice the difference instantly between 1.8 & 2.0 and it will put a smile on your face everytime you drive her.

Then when you get bored Turbo that.

End of really.

 

[cliosportcraig]

Better to T/C a 1.8 rather than a 2.0, plus to T/C a valver costs MUCHO MUCHO ££.

 

[CorsaD2003]

im not sure why people are making such a big issue of lag, the standard T2 turbo on a Gtt spins up to full boost at approx. 2k and even if you have a t25/t28 there isnt too much lag with spinup (aslong as its a rollerbearing) The only time lag will be a genuine issue is if you just put a large dustbin T3 or even a T34 or something in there.

NA might be more usuable power but its not as much fun. Ive driven a williams and to be honest the acceleration didnt seem that exciting, it just came into its element round the twistys!

But as already sed its each to there own, but i dont think anybody should get a turbo conversion just for a dump valve! Wtf??

 

[cliosportcraig]

Ive just purchased a T25 with 360 degree thrust bearing rated upto 28 PSI, should keep me entertained for a while

 

[Matt16v]

John from TT has a T3 360 degree thrust bearing on his. Said theres hardly any noticable additional lag over standard T2.

But then it cost a hell of a lot of money.

Craig - have you had the conversion or are you in the process of getting the parts together?

 

[Barryd]

Quote: Originally posted by diamond geezer on 03 June 2004

must admit, binned my dumpvalve, charge coolers soooooo much better.

??????????????????????????????????

WTF are you on about?

 

[Dan_mk1]

why dont you spend the money on the valver lump? with 2k im sure you could get quite far!?

just a thought.........

 

[MaLicE]

lol 2k would get you 230bhp for a short time but not reliable lol, i know people with gtts running 235bhp reliable day in day out, and they have spent LOTS more than 2k lol, mike 48 from rtoc has huuuge amounts of work done, and is running 235bhp but he can do a 1/4 mile in 12.61 seconds! not just a case of a big turbo, uprated head gasket and upping the boost lol.

dump valves are sh*t with a capital SH slow spool up time by loads, for instance on my car if i drive it hard, and shift quick with a dv on, i can keep the turbo spooling while i shift, if im a split second late on shifting gears the dv goes off and i loose all presure and the turbo stops spinning, and i get compressor stall, however without a dv, i can change gear slower and not get compressor stall, my car with the wastegate noise or compressor surge is much louder than any gtt i know with a dv.

blow off valves perform better on my car as the piston in the valve is constantly closed (on a normall dv its open untill a certain pressure then it closes) and when i relase the pressure the bov opens then is forced closed by a spring so its possible to have a noise loose some of the pressure but still keep the turbo spinning.

but my blow off valve is broke now lol, if any 1 wants to see what a turbo is like to drive they can come have a drive in my car...

 

[Matt16v]

Is a thought that has crossed my mind plenty of times.

£2k could in theory see me with 170+ bhp but then when would the power come in? It already is too far up the rev range for my liking. Has any one actually ever had head, cams, chi, boost valve etc and what ever else done ??

From my limited mechanical experience increasing the power moves it further up the rev range, I can just about handle 4k - 7k but any more and it would be going towards 5k - 8k.

Correct me if Im wrong though cause Im not a mechanic.

Not sure if this should be moved to exterior, power and mechanical now or not!

Get Ben and Andy involved!

Although Bens keeping his latest work under wraps.

 

[Matt16v]

Malice - is yours a GTT? I heard it was a 1.7t from a Volvo? Im not looking for maximum power at all. Just interested in a lightly modded engine that can happily make me forget my valver for now. Then in the future I can tweak it till my heart and pockets content!

Where you from any way?

 

[u33db]

Quote: Originally posted by Matt16v on 03 June 2004


£2k could in theory see me with 170+ bhp but then when would the power come in? It already is too far up the rev range for my liking. Has any one actually ever had head, cams, chi, boost valve etc and what ever else done ??

From my limited mechanical experience increasing the power moves it further up the rev range, I can just about handle 4k - 7k but any more and it would be going towards 5k - 8k.

Its true that increasing the power will move it further up the rev range but the same goes for any car - throw a new cam into the GTT and youll have a similar problem. However, i think doing it to a valver isnt as bad as everyone makes out - sure power will come later but itll still be far more progressive than the delivery from a GTT and dues to that easier to drive IMO.

One thing that id like to know is, is the 120bhp max power of the GTT lump quoted on boost? If it is then what is it off boost - given the age, ccs and design it must be fairly gutless compared to a 16v at a similar low rpm....??

 

[Matt16v]

Should imagine 120 bhp is max power, without a turbo it would be a sh/t bag.

Ive PMd Ben for his advice as well in the matter, hes usually helpful!

 

[cliosportcraig]

Of course the Max power is gonna be on boost, but aslong as you dont throw a HUGE turbo in then itll spin up pretty quick, usually lower down the revs than the 16vs 4.5k kick !!

Ive got all the bits for the conversion, just need it doing now !! will beat most williams and cups when its finished

 

[MaLicE]

lol yeh mine is a 1.7 turbo, not any where near as easy to tune as a gtt, but if u wanted to just stick a turbo lump in and keep it standard the choise between a gtt and a volvo i would say prob volvo as it has injection...

however reading this some people seem to quote stuff they have herd and think they are right and just post sh*t lol like

must admit, binned my dumpvalve, charge coolers soooooo much better. LOL wtf are you on about, how does a charge cooler change the sound of the car lol, its like a radiator, there is no way to make a noise with it lol,

and

throw a new cam into the GTT and youll have a similar problem. (talking about moving the power up the rev range) um ok m8, but the turbo will still come on at the same point meaning when the cam comes on higher up (with the turbo spinning away) you get even more power but still low down grunt....

running a t3 on a gtt for an every day car is like murder lol, ok for big power yes, but for every day they take f**king yonks to spin up, compared to a t25 you will get bored and wish you handent botherd lol, you can get a t25 with 360degree bearing with cut back compressor tips for 350 quid, if you know the right people, and that is a better spec and power than any body else that "tunes gtts" can provide lol.

i dont know sh*t about turbos and try to keep my mouth shut on things i dont understand, some people on here should do the same, with enough money on a clio gtt i dont se any problems in getting low 13s i mean there is already a clio gtt that has pulled a 13.5

but then im sure if you stick with a 16v, that benr etc will be developing some nice power increases soon, you need to decide, turbo or NA, turbo may be cheaper to get power from, but may also cost more in the long run... na may cost more for power and may be cheaper for repairs etc, it all comes in swings and roundabouts, i like turbo, and after owning a turbo i can never really see myself going back to NA my next car will defo be turbo (looking at 200sxs) and before im 35 i want to of owned many turbo cars like rx7s and supras atm there is no NA car i would have over a turbo

 

[cliosportcraig]

Quote: Originally posted by MaLicE on 03 June 2004


running a t3 on a gtt for an every day car is like murder lol, ok for big power yes, but for every day they take f**king yonks to spin up, compared to a t25 you will get bored and wish you handent botherd lol, you can get a t25 with 360degree bearing with cut back compressor tips for 350 quid, if you know the right people, and that is a better spec and power than any body else that "tunes gtts" can provide lol.

I payed £280 for my T25 with 360 degree thrust bearing and a billet alloy uprated actuator. Not bad i thought

 

[MaLicE]

yeh sounds good, was it new ???