Ferodo DS2500 (for a change) part number confusion

[Fred@BTM]

just watch it, as i've seen binding, the pad must be free to move vertically in the carrier

 

[pablo_ni]

will know for next time cheers.

 

[ripp]

just watch it, as i've seen binding, the pad must be free to move vertically in the carrier

by vertically you mean like this? (with the red lines pointing the areas to file)

or like that:

just received the Brembo hc +ds 2500 kit from k-tec and wanted to be sure before install

 

[ripp]

yet another question: wouldn't it be less hassle to use the old pads as a guide to file down the DS's? as a template I mean, coupled with the removal of the shims?

 

[p@blo]

yet another question: wouldn't it be less hassle to use the old pads as a guide to file down the DS's? as a template I mean, coupled with the removal of the shims?

Why? Just file/grind them and keep trial fitting until they fit right (moving them around in the grubby carriers will leave marks on any high spots). Mine (565) needed material removing from both the sides and the lower contact edges. As Fred pointed out make sure there's a tiny amount of vert play on them so they're still free when they heat up & expand slightly.

Mine needed removing and refinishing after the few hundred mile break in period as one side was binding slightly. After that they've been perfect with virtually no squeal. Mine are running with the stainless shims as figured this to be less friction versus running on the cast faces of the carriers that seem more prone to clogging from brake dust-so far so good.

 

[ripp]

thx for the reply, I hope whoever fits them will have the patience to do it properly, as I haven't got the tools for the job

 

[Fred@BTM]

by vertically you mean like this? (with the red lines pointing the areas to file)

or like that:

just received the Brembo hc +ds 2500 kit from k-tec and wanted to be sure before install

correct, but why did they send you 406H?

 

[ripp]

they say the 565's were the cup racer ones and the 406's will fit as they are the correct items. GOD only knows now which ones are the correct ones haha! I'll keep you posted and hopefully will take some pics of the fitment process

 

[ripp]

well they needed to be filed down a bit, and now they started to bite an to squeak aswell not bothered though

 

[Fred@BTM]

they say the 565's were the cup racer ones and the 406's will fit as they are the correct items. GOD only knows now which ones are the correct ones haha! I'll keep you posted and hopefully will take some pics of the fitment process

cost price is £10 less too

 

[ripp]

would like to know some day what are the differences between 565 and 406's (the official diferences I mean). a ferodo employee has to make an account around here lol
p.s: FACT is I had to file them despite k-tec said that it wouldn't be necessary as they are the correct part no. so it seems like with these pads wether they are 565 or 406 you may need to file

 

[Fred@BTM]

the 565H is a thicker pad with a larger surface area, obvious from the images below, price difference between the 2 is about £10, but some companies sell the cheaper 406H pad at the same price as the more expensive 565H pad which is a bit naughty in my book

406H dimensions and image
129,9x51x18,3mm

565H dimensions and image
130x53,5x19,1mm

 

[ripp]

thanks fred! good info there
as I can see the 565 has a groove in the middle? my 406's have that groove although not shown in the drawing.
I bought the pads from k-tec as they had them in the kit with the HC discs at a reasonable price. good to know what the differences are, this thread may as well be a sticky

 

[Fred@BTM]

yeah its just the image, they all should have that groove down them

both pads do need filing and the shims in the calipers HAVE to be removed, i don't care what anyone else says, thats a fact

 

[ripp]

clearly with the shims on these pads won't go in, with them removed, a little file needed
compound wise, they should be the same I guess

 

[Fred@BTM]

yeah same material, you must have 1mm of vertical clearance with the pad in the carrier

 

[ripp]

1-1,5 mm clearance is what I filed them too

 

[Soot1e]

An angle grinder whips of that excess in seconds.

 

[p@blo]

p.s: FACT is I had to file them despite k-tec said that it wouldn't be necessary as they are the correct part no. so it seems like with these pads wether they are 565 or 406 you may need to file

As Fred showed, they're one of two suggested part numbers. Surely this is common knowledge that a large supplier such as ktec racing should be well aware of, advising their customers accordingly? As Fred pointed out the 406 is a cheaper pad.

yeah its just the image, they all should have that groove down them

both pads do need filing and the shims in the calipers HAVE to be removed, i don't care what anyone else says, thats a fact

Fred, granted you advise against the stainless shims-but afaik you've never stated the technical reason why. I don't get how if they've been filed to compensate for the extra 0.5mil of shim depth surely it doesn't make any odds-I spent time filing/trial fitting mine after taking off sufficient material and they've bedded and fit perfect (granted marginally more material than I would've removed for the carriers alone).

Mine have done a chunk of road miles and two trackdays so far with the shims in. They run/stop fine and having checked edge heights are wearing evenly-not sure how they could be running any better to be fair.

As said the only time there is any (and i mean this is minimal) squeal is from when they've glazed from short local runs where they never get up to temp anyway. On stints where the brakes get up to moderate temp and the pads are actually working properly they run silent.

Please don't take my question the wrong way mate-just curious as to why as mine are running fine shimmed up. Can you shed any light dude?

 

[Fred@BTM]

technical reason? i've stated it many times

metal expands when hot (the back plate in this case)

the shims clog up with s**t which is the main reason they should be binned, basically the shims are there to stop the pads clunking about when you reverse and apply the brakes CLUNK, go forwards again CLUNK


the way you have it is fine, i just don't recommend doing it that way, i stick to what i know and pass it on to customers if they ignore my advice fine but when they call up moaning the pads squeal etc i do roll my eyes


also any form of grease on race pads is a big fat NO

 

[p@blo]

Good man, as said wasn't having a pop-just curious.

Ta Fred!

 

[Alx]

Ive just bought the same set of hc and ds2500 406h from ktec, I am thinking of fitting them with my dads help, i dont have any real mechanical knowledge lol, is it quite straight forward or not? I would ideally like them done in a garage but im not sure they would be too keep on doing filing of the pads to get them in.

And its also recomended i remove the shims... are these the metal springs?

 

[mark123]

Should be fine.

Most likely thing to go wrong is the disc retaining screw will not budge and you round it off. It is easy to drill the head off though and you don't need to replace it as they are only there to hold the disc in place when the wheel bolts are off.

 

[Alx]

So removing the caliper is simple enough, also would i need to bleed the system, and what are the shims?

 

[ripp]

removing the caliper is easy, you should figure it out. and yes I would do the job myself than paying someone for a simple task. pads need to be filed at the ends. the shims are some 0,5 mm thick metal plates that are positioned in the area where you will need to file the pads. general opinion is that you'll need to remove these(use a flat screwdriver to get them out if they don't come off by hand). file the pads down until they fit easily in the carrier and have a little play (in a vertical direction)-about 1-1,5 mm. you will also need to push the caliper piston back in as the new pads are thicker and the caliper won't close otherwise. I managed to do this using two spanners, one rested on the piston, the other used as a lever(easy to figure out how to). mount everything back, job done

 

[T3gav]

correct, but why did they send you 406H?

You put correct but did you mean the top pic or the bottom one Fred?

 

[ripp]

top pic. they will expand more across the length than the width. easy to tell when trying to fit as they'll probably won't even go in if you don't file that area