Generic Grp N remap on 172

[robsta172]

Hi
Has anyone here ever got their Grp N ecu dynoed. Jus wonderin what the AFR mixture was. Mine was running rich, about 11.4, which resulted in a lower power output of 94.2Kw

I changed to the standard ecu and the AFR was a more ideal 12.7-13. And got max power of 96.8Kw

I know comparing dyno figures is a waste of time, but wanted to know your mixtures.

Rob

 

[robsta172]

Someone has got know something about about AFR!

 

[en035]

Someone has got know something about about AFR!

which brand is it? A renault item or an aftermarket one?

 

[robsta172]

what you mean which brand??

its a grp n ecu from fast chip

 

[robsta172]

Here is the dyno sheet

red line- grp n

black line- standard

notice the red lines air/fuel mixture

http://www.putfile.com/roba83http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=5218088

 

[Lagerlout]

Basically the Renault grpN ECU then.

Mine was definitely faster withe the groupN fitted, although mine was coupled with ITG Maxogen, ported inlet manifold, cat back exhaust and uprated fuel pressure regulator.

 

[robsta172]

why the fuel pressure regulator??

were you running lean?

I have a 2.25" cat-back, panel filter with new hose to front bumper

 

[Lagerlout]

Actually, fuel pressure regulator was fitted when I removed the grpn as it didn't control my Cruise or Climate properly.

Was fitted to stop me running lean with the other breathing mods - Maxogen/2.5" cat back/Inlet manifold.

Saving for an RSTuning remap at the mo.

 

[robsta172]

Ah ok

that makes sense now. no prob

Dont seem to know why my remap is running so rich!
oh well, rs tuning is coming to oz sometime this year, i guess ill see them

Thanks mate

 

[Lagerlout]

No worries pal.

Can't understand why you'r was running rich.... although my exhaust used to pop and fart like crazy with the grpN.. on overrun and part throttle at about 3krpm. i'd love to no what it actually changed over the OE one. Ceratinly throttle response was much better - Must have opened the FBW throttle much quicker.

I was gutted mine didn't work properly as it certainly made a difference in performance. Not massive, but noticeable.

Looking forward to a trip to leeds for a RR session and a remap though!

 

[robsta172]

Can't understand why you'r was running rich.... although my exhaust used to pop and fart like crazy with the grpN.. on overrun and part throttle at about 3krpm.

As does mine.

 

[Lagerlout]

Hmmmm interesting.....

 

[murcod]

Was fitted to stop me running lean with the other breathing mods - Maxogen/2.5" cat back/Inlet manifold.

That's the other interesting thing- robsta172 has perfect AFR's with his standard ECU and a different filter and cat back exhaust. From what I've read it doesn't take much to make them run lean in that department??? :S

Do any of the aftermarket tuners have anything to add- I know quite a few are on here (AWT, K-Tec, Yozzasport, RSTuning.... ) Is it normal to get this sort of richness with a Group N tune? My guess would be no because it kills the peak power output.

BTW the rep from RS Tuning who is coming to Australia has indicated on OzRenaultSport that they DO NOT adjust the mixtures at all on their tunes???

 

[RSTuning]

I can't comment on the Group N setup as i don't use them. I can tell you the AFR on our maps is better than that!

Paul

 

[Lagerlout]

Was fitted to stop me running lean with the other breathing mods - Maxogen/2.5" cat back/Inlet manifold.

That's the other interesting thing- robsta172 has perfect AFR's with his standard ECU and a different filter and cat back exhaust. From what I've read it doesn't take much to make them run lean in that department??? :S

Your guess is as good as mine fella. HillPower did the work on my car. Seems like a top bloke and knows his stuff.

 

[murcod]

I can't comment on the Group N setup as i don't use them. I can tell you the AFR on our maps is better than that!

Paul

Thanks Paul.

The "Group N' name just seems to be used as a marketing ploy anyway? I guess we're just talking about 172/ 182 remaps in general?

What sort of mods are your RSC generic tunes written to cope with (like what we'd be getting in Australia from Hannson?) Is it critical that the mapping is matched to the inlet / exhaust mods (if any?) to avoid AFR issues like robsta172 has?

 

[Lagerlout]

Mine was a genuine Renault part - a full replacement ECU which was a bargain @ £250 - Not from another tuning company and branded GrpN.

 

[GordonD]

Hi
Has anyone here ever got their Grp N ecu dynoed. Jus wonderin what the AFR mixture was. Mine was running rich, about 11.4, which resulted in a lower power output of 94.2Kw

I changed to the standard ecu and the AFR was a more ideal 12.7-13. And got max power of 96.8Kw

I know comparing dyno figures is a waste of time, but wanted to know your mixtures.

Rob

About two years I had Superchips agent in Adelaide rechip my car. There wasn't anyone around then here to set up the map for a particular car. So its a generic map. And I had it dynoed afterwards on a DynoDynamics dyno. And it produces about the same power as yours, with a similar power curve, and a AFR graph that looks exactly like the one the Group N chip got on your dyno chart. Makes me wonder if Superchips didn't just copy the Group N chip.

Like you I wondered when I saw the AFR graph at how rapidly it dropped from mid 14s down to just below 12.

Afterwards I wondered how good a job they did. I know it was quick and dirty. And I wondered if they'd waited long enough to make sure the ECU had switch out of cold-start enriched mode. If they just waited until the water temperature came up that wouldn't have been long enough. And I'm wondering if that might not be the case with yours. That on your first run it is still "cold", and on the second run the engine was still warm enough from the first run that the ECU decided it was warm enough to run "normal".

Certainly by looking at the two curves they gave me (without then with a Viper induction kit) that that's what they done to me. They were supposed to do an A-B comparison, but they did the A run on a cold engine, the the B run on a warm engine. Which stuffed up the whole point of the exercise I paid them to do.

 

[Lagerlout]

Weird that is... drops like a stone doesn't it?!

 

[robsta172]

If that was the case, would the car still allow me to rev to 7k though?

I always thought, that the rev limiter kicked in earlier when not warm enough.

And also, the car was driven to shop, 25min, then pretty much idled for 5 min before jumping on the dyno

What did you end up doin with your superchip? I would not be suprised if it was in fact the same tune. I have emailed fastchip, and enquired about my results. I know some of you guys havent had the best experience with them. Lets see if they have any answers

 

[GordonD]

If that was the case, would the car still allow me to rev to 7k though?

I always thought, that the rev limiter kicked in earlier when not warm enough.

And also, the car was driven to shop, 25min, then pretty much idled for 5 min before jumping on the dyno

What did you end up doin with your superchip? I would not be suprised if it was in fact the same tune. I have emailed fastchip, and enquired about my results. I know some of you guys havent had the best experience with them. Lets see if they have any answers

OK, if yours was driven for 25 minutes to the shop then scrap that theory. Five minutes idling on a cold engine isn't enough, but it should be after a 25 minute drive. The dyno shop I took mine to was only 200 meters down the road.

I've still got the Superchip in the car (I think). I was never unhappy with it. If it produced much more power it wasn't a lot, but it cured a really annoying problem with the car, that it was really hard to get off the lights. If I didn't pick up just the right number of revs before I let the clutch out it stalled and I looked like an idiot. And if I picked up too many to stop it stalling it squealed the front wheels and I still looked like an idiot. The rechip largely got rid of that.

I say I think I've still got the Superchip remap because my dealer was looking at another problem and thought there was something funny in the ECU and tried fixing it. When I explained to them it'd been remapped they weren't sure if they could or had overwritten any of the remap. Superchips reckoned Renault can't. Superchips had enough trouble putting their map in. Their OBD-II port software didn't work, so they pulled the ECU, desoldered the map ROM, rewrote what was in it, then resoldered it back into the ECU.

The Group N chip has a higher rev limit than standard.

 

[hannson]

Actually, fuel pressure regulator was fitted when I removed the grpn as it didn't control my Cruise or Climate properly.

Was fitted to stop me running lean with the other breathing mods - Maxogen/2.5" cat back/Inlet manifold.

Saving for an RSTuning remap at the mo.

hi,
just curious about a couple of things.

1. did you run a dyno to find out that your ride was running lean after you removed your Grp N ECU?
2. After removing your Grp N ECU, and after fitting the fuel pressure regulator, have you taken another AFR reading again?

Cheers,

 

[CroClio]

Anyone have any dyno graphs of befor and afters with gains?

interesting to see this one has lost power, everyone seems to rave about these chips but it all seems to be seat of the pants type reviews, now someone has a solid dyno chart to prove a power loss and nobody has anything to say?

 

[portal172]

The subject doesn't help, it doesn't mention the powerloss. Every 2nd thread is about an ECU.

I would PM someone about it.

 

[murcod]

The subject doesn't help, it doesn't mention the powerloss. Every 2nd thread is about an ECU.

Yes, have to agree - something eye grabbing like "Group N ECU Dyno Proven Power Loss!!??" would get a lot more attention.

Robsta172 you should be able to edit the subject via your first post.

 

[Lagerlout]

Actually, fuel pressure regulator was fitted when I removed the grpn as it didn't control my Cruise or Climate properly.

Was fitted to stop me running lean with the other breathing mods - Maxogen/2.5" cat back/Inlet manifold.

Saving for an RSTuning remap at the mo.

hi,
just curious about a couple of things.

1. did you run a dyno to find out that your ride was running lean after you removed your Grp N ECU?
2. After removing your Grp N ECU, and after fitting the fuel pressure regulator, have you taken another AFR reading again?

Cheers,

Nope. Would love to have done, out of interest and to check everything was OK, but sadly financial restraints did not allow it!!

When i pay RStuning a visit I'll hopefully get a before and after so will no if I'm lean atm.

 

[robsta172]

Cannot edit the subject unfortunetly. would have been a good idea.

 

[murcod]

You could always start a new thread..... ..... and link this one into it.

 

[Lagerlout]

Just PM a mod to do it for you- I'm sure they'll oblige.