Insurance Scam plz read

[kingJimBob]

Ok i donno if this has been brouht up before, juts want your views on my theory..

i cant afford to insure a vavler under my name TPFT (im 19, 0NCB, but have pass plus - which doesnt mean jack to insurance companies)

anyway.... my dad just got a quote on a valver for £250 fully comp (£50 excess)

he owns a 306 1.9TD, which is insurance group 5 (the same as my clio, so im hoping i could get a quote for aroudn the same figure)

now my plan is........ i insure his car under my name, Fully comp including him as a secound driver.

he insures himself under a vavler fully comp (coz its only £30 more than TPFT). (with protected NCB)

the 306 will be under my name DVLA, and the valver under his name DVLA.

now.................. coz im fully comp, does this mean in theory i could drive around the vavler TPFT (as i have a fully comp policy)

my dad drives his 306 as normal, because he would be covered fully comp on it anyway.

and i have just saved myself about £1000 in insurance?!?!

ok might seem a bit muddled up the way i have stated it... but somebody please understand.... and give me your thoughts.!

 

[Daz]

Quote: Originally posted by kingJimBob on 02 June 2004


now.................. coz im fully comp, does this mean in theory i could drive around the vavler TPFT (as i have a fully comp policy)

Most companies dont let ya drive TPFT on other cars unless ya 21 at least.. and even then, it depends.

 

[raf182]

In theory if you were to buy the cheapest group1 car in the world and insure it fully comp you would still be ok to drive the valver, as long as that policy stated you were able to drive other cars 3rd party.

Have you had a quote for the 306 yet?

One thing to bear in mind, if ive read youre post right is that the valver will be only covered for 3rd party, not fire and theft, another thing to bear in mind.

steve

 

[kingJimBob]

ooook so i need to check that the insurance company will let me driver over vechiles TPFT

and the vavler would be covered fully comp under my dad but if i was driving it, only 3rd part under me, not for fire or theft?! (tho if i did get knicked couldnt i say it was under my dads possesion?)



gonno go get some quotes for a 306 now, my mate had a 306 1.9TD same as dads, and his insurance was dirty cheap.

 

[Deeg]

Most companies only let people drive cars third party (I think it is only third party as well, not TPFT) once they are quite old (21 / 25+) and / or been with them a while.

I think a lot are putting a stop to it as well, cos you could insure a fiat panda fully comp (group 1 car i think), then go and buy a porche and drive around third party and still be insured.

I nearley got caught out by this, and have heard of a lot of people who have, thinking that because they have fully cop insurance, they can drive other peoples cars.

Just wait a year or two if i were you, then get a valver / willy / 172 / 182 when your insurance is lower and you earn more money.




[Edited by Deeg on 02 June 2004 at 3:20pm]

 

[raf182]

I gather from youre post that you wont be taking out a policy on the valver? If thats the case then it wont be covered, it will only be covered for driving accidents caused by another idiot on the road.

 

[Liftnub]

Policies that do let you do this often have clauses, popular ones include:

1) You have to over 25 to be able to drive another vehicle using your existing fully comp policy

2) You are only covered third party

3) The second vehicle can not be owned by you or leased to you under a hire purchase agreement

4) The second vehicle must be of a smaller engine size and/or power output.

Always read the small print.

 

[kingJimBob]

my plan was

me fully comp on a 306 1.9TD with my dads name aswell, he drives this around

my dad fully comp on a valver (coz its only £30 more than TPFT), i drive this around TPFT as i thought a fully comp policy would cover this.



tho my dreams have been shattered

1) just got a quick online quote, an its a £1000 to cover a 306 1.9 TD, whereas my lil clio RT is only £500 (both insurance group 5, but obviously )

2) havnt checked it up but as most of u have stated, i would prob have to be 21

3) bugger

looks like i will have to wait that extra year before i could afford to insure / run a valver

 

[kingJimBob]

Cack!

 

[maaaaaartin]

Have you tried getting a quote with you as the main driver but put every old person you know with lots of NCB as named drivers. My mate saved £100s this way. Its completely legal, just dont let them drive your lovely valver as if they crash it effects your no claims!!!

 

[kingJimBob]

yea mgiht have to look into that, i remeber some mentioning it, but also only some insurance companies drop the premium i know norwhich union who is the best quote around for me at mo, actually increases it if i stick my dad on.

 

[Matt16v]

I was 18 when I got my RT - that was fully comp and I was covered third party on other vehicles. Always used to drive parents cars and mates cars.

Even got pulled by "young William" in a mates car and they were happy with it.

Just make sure they cover you before you jump in and crash!

 

[Lunner]

What about getting a quote in your dads name with you as a named driver, obvously then you won;t get any NCB, but if you wanna build up no claims, buy a real sh*tter that will cost about £100 to insure and leave it sat on teh drive,m happly building up your NCB

 

[y0z2a]

You have to be 25 with some companies to drive 3rd party.

/y0z

 

[kingJimBob]

Quote: Originally posted by Matt16v on 02 June 2004


I was 18 when I got my RT - that was fully comp and I was covered third party on other vehicles. Always used to drive parents cars and mates cars.

Even got pulled by "young William" in a mates car and they were happy with it.

Just make sure they cover you before you jump in and crash!







What company were u with mate?

 

[kingJimBob]

Quote: Originally posted by Lunner on 02 June 2004

What about getting a quote in your dads name with you as a named driver, obvously then you won;t get any NCB, but if you wanna build up no claims, buy a real sh*tter that will cost about £100 to insure and leave it sat on teh drive,m happly building up your NCB

already under my dads name at mo, wanna get my own policy as need to build up NCB and if my bro ever gets around to learning to drive hes gonno want to go under my dads name for first year.

saying that f**k him hes a lazy bugger, been 17 for couple months and not even got his provisional yet. what car could i buy to insure for under £200? lol

 

[Matt16v]

Hill house hammond

 

[kingJimBob]

kool will def have to check them out.



was looking under small print, and what i have got from this... is that with CIS even if ur TPFT ur insured to driver some1 else car TPFT

https://tr3.cis.co.uk/praffmot/FAQ_main_ans.asp?Q=1">https://tr3.cis.co.uk/praffmot/FAQ_main_ans.asp?Q=1

 

[kingJimBob]

and also....

https://tr3.cis.co.uk/praffmot/FAQ_main_ans.asp?Q=3">https://tr3.cis.co.uk/praffmot/FAQ_main_ans.asp?Q=3

 

[skiddusmarkus]

Bide your time and build up your bonus like everyone else has to.Dont you think the insurance companies have had all this tried before many times?Theyre not complete idiots.

 

[kingJimBob]

no they might not be complete idiots, but they like to take us for complete idiots, with the premiums that we pay, and u cant argue that they are just try to make a profit, coz thy make more than a bloody profit they take each one of us for a mug.

insurance is an elastic product/service, like petrol, therefore the suppliers of an elastic product can charge what they want, because there is no subtitute.

therefore rather than pay stupid a stupidly high premium, i would like to take advantage of the years of driving experience and NCB that my dad has, and try and us this so i can maybe save myself a grand in insurance bills.

if u could get a pint of milk for 15p or the same pint of milk down the road for £1.50 which would u buy?



[Edited by kingJimBob on 02 June 2004 at 7:01pm]

p.s. looks like i will have to be patient and wait.

 

[skiddusmarkus]

Insurance companies dont generally make a profit from premiums.They actually make a loss.The reason they stay in business is because they invest your premium on the markets.

Premiums are high for high risk cutomers like yourself.Theyll come down as your risk comes down.Mine isnt bad at all now but its taken years of crash free driving,not just some quick scam.

 

[kingJimBob]

yea everybody knows the obvious different between a premium when your 18 and 40.

fair point made mate, im not gonno get in an arguement about this, coz at the end of the day, im just trying to find away of getting a better car without being killed by the insurance, and like u said im gonno just have to wait a year.

but at the end of the day if u could find away of getting around paying 1000 more when u were 19, u wouldnt have considered it?



one thing that does puzzle me though, is if there isnt any profit being made in insurance, why have all the major supermarket and banks chains diversed into it? e.g. Tescos etc.

 

[kingJimBob]

i do have a strange feeling u work for a insurance company tho skiddus

 

[kingJimBob]

and................ tho Barclays, made an over all increase in profits last year of 10%, 70% of these profits were from insurance policies of which i quote...

barclays "had been making excessive profits" from its policies

was in the Gaurdian not too long ago... and they used barclays as an example, who arnt a well known insurance company.



ok not subject to all insurance companys, but just goes to show profit is being made

 

[skiddusmarkus]

I dont work in insurance.I do know that there are more than one type of policy though,not just car ones.They generally make their profits from investing the money from premiums in other areas.

 

[kingJimBob]

oops my bad, forgot to mention about car premiums

same article mentioned why some companys are able to offer different prices...

i.e. tescos will insure a 17 year old lad on a clio 1.4 for £1400 and another might do same quote but for £2500, this is because companies like tescos have had to! reduce profit margins, due to excess profits.

sounds a bit stupid really a company being penalised for making too much profit, but its the case for insurance companies and other such providers.



[Edited by kingJimBob on 02 June 2004 at 8:38pm]



p.s. the whole point of this thread was to see ppls views ont he idea. i can safley say its prob a bad one, so im gonno be patient and wait till i can afford it.

 

[Deeg]

Quote: Originally posted by kingJimBob on 02 June 2004


no they might not be complete idiots, but they like to take us for complete idiots, with the premiums that we pay, and u cant argue that they are just try to make a profit, coz thy make more than a bloody profit they take each one of us for a mug.

insurance is an elastic product/service, like petrol, therefore the suppliers of an elastic product can charge what they want, because there is no subtitute.

therefore rather than pay stupid a stupidly high premium, i would like to take advantage of the years of driving experience and NCB that my dad has, and try and us this so i can maybe save myself a grand in insurance bills.

if u could get a pint of milk for 15p or the same pint of milk down the road for £1.50 which would u buy?

Think of what it costs to run an insurance company, when i rang HIC, they said that they were putting a premium on younger drivers ebcasue they had a £500K claim going through at the moment. That means that they need 500 people all paying £1K just to recoup the costs of that one claim, which for any company is a lot of money to raise.

TBH, I would be very carefull with what you are doing as you dont want to get caught with invalid insurance, because that means 6 odd points and declaring them for 5 years.

The best idea i would say is go with a company like Elephant, wh do the 10 month bonus accelortaer, stick your Dum, Dad and Gran / GranDad on the policy and grin and bear it. I found that putting more than 3 people on the policy increased it, but up to 3 decreased it.






[Edited by Deeg on 02 June 2004 at 8:48pm]

 

[kingJimBob]

^^ fair point mate^^ i understand why it costs and sh*t, just im sore that i cant get the car i want.

but.......

Quote: Originally posted by kingJimBob on 02 June 2004





p.s. the whole point of this thread was to see ppls views ont he idea. i can safley say its prob a bad one, so im gonno be patient and wait till i can afford it.





i think like u say prob safer to wait a year. another year of elastic band powered RT. wooohooo

 

[Matt16v]

Most insurance underwriters are tight with their policies, they will prob not cover some one if they believe they are too high a risk. Also most underwriters dont only specialise in one typre of risk, they will cover motor, marine, property, household etc etc etc. So if they lose on on department they can re-coup easily from another.

They do make a mint, I HAVE been in the insurance market for 7 years and have seen underwriters get hit by 09/11 and cost the market BILLIONS and they survived, they regularly make losses of £30m plus in the marine market and survive. Young drivers ARE picked on, but then time and time again young drivers make the statistics that give them grounds to pick on them!

No I dont sell insurance before any one asks!

 

[R3OBC]

I JUST got the ability to do this in March. 21, had 2yrs NCB, insured on other cars third party, so often drove my dads Octavia RS. But...............what if id been driving the RS the day some scum rammed my car and ran away?? i would have really been in the sh*t! if you can get a company who cover you on other cars it will work, but its not always worth it mate, ive realised the risks! Plus, i had to wait till i was 21. Rob

 

[kingJimBob]

Yup kinda realised there was no way around it, i wouldnt have been able to afford to insurance the valver TPFT let alone fully comp. so the plan was always to get insurse on a valver TPFT.

looks like im gonno have to be patient, and wait till i can afford to do it out right. Doooh