M3. V8. Saloon.

[Rich-D]

TBH, you can't go far wrong with any M3/M5 from the last 10 years.

Keep going...
The E39 M5 was born in 1999 and the E46 M3 in 2000, both still very fast, very good looking cars today, BMW nailed both these cars!

 

[DannyR]

So much better than a coupe but that gear knob lets it down so much, looks like it's from an e36?!

 

[Rich-D]

So much better than a coupe but that gear knob lets it down so much, looks like it's from an e36?!

One of the first things I did in my M5 was change to a Clubsport / ZF gear knob, much better IMO

 

[Gally]

How can a v8 revving to 8.5 thousand RPM not be exciting?

I don't know. Unless at 9/10ths I doubt it would. I felt a C63 at 30mph going angry down the road more exciting that an E46 or E9X accelerating. Just lacked something evocative for me, then again I don't find GTRs exciting either, I just think you need proper noise from a "sportscar", even if it's fake or from added on parts.

The reason I crave noise is because you can't actually go that quick anywhere really apart from maybe a Sunday drive down some b roads and I find big cars no good for fun. I drove my brother in laws E46 M3 a lot, now I can't drive it properly but I can give a Fiesta ST new or old more stick and have more fun down a twisty ish style road, horses for courses? Subjective?

The whole reason Dave needs a fun car, is because M3s aren't fun on the whole. They excite Dave the same way an old Frp rust bucket excites me even parked up at the side of the road. It sort of epitomises CS in fairness, a lot don't own a Clio as a first car, they own one as their fun car.

 

[ForceIndia]

M3's aren't that fun might be the silliest thing I've read on cs.

 

[Gally]

Legally fun?

 

[Cookie]

Legally fun?

They can be tbh. I think you need to own and live with something quick aside from just living vicariously through your employer

 

[ForceIndia]

Legally fun?

The grip level is low enough that it's fun on a daily basis. Ffs it's easier to skid than an mx5.
Razor sharp motor, makes a good sound, rwd, lsd, great driving position, brakes that terrify on every quick drive.
Yes a c63 is stunning when acting the brummy and driving at 20mph trying to impress sluts. But that isn't what makes it a fun car.

 

[Gally]

They can be tbh. I think you need to own and live with something quick aside from just living vicariously through your employer

It was my Brother in law's E46 M3 and a "friend's" E9X for what it's worth, although my job entails test driving cars on a daily basis which I also feel lucky for, to add I never said either was a bad car, I know they're not for a fact.

It's also not really vicariously imo and i'm kind of insulted at the insinuation if i'm honest mate, not very often does that happen!

I understand I'm in a lucky position but i'm not a 17 year old lad that means fast cars are out of my reach, I just don't have a desire to own one, especially with the opportunity to drive them with none of the drawbacks or associated costs.

Nor are quick cars really my thing anyway, partially because I can't really "drive" them that well, I just get to 60 and back off usually!

Apologies for that Dave.

The grip level is low enough that it's fun on a daily basis. Ffs it's easier to skid than an mx5.
Razor sharp motor, makes a good sound, rwd, lsd, great driving position, brakes that terrify on every quick drive.
Yes a c63 is stunning when acting the brummy and driving at 20mph trying to impress sluts. But that isn't what makes it a fun car.

As I said, what I think is fun and what your think is fun is entirely different. The fact is Dave has another fun car as he said, more the kind of car I'd have fun in, ie a small nimble hot hatch.

It seems it's a rather defensive subject due to it being an M3.

 

[ColinG]

Just seen this! Hero choice, looks stunning... BUT..................













Wrong gearbox

 

[ForceIndia]

Just seen this! Hero choice, looks stunning... BUT..................













Wrong gearbox 😧

He's got fully functional limbs. Correct gearbox.

 

[Gareth]

I must admit I don't think I could be arsed going back to a manual after the E-Class, especially if I had other manual cars.

 

[ColinG]

He's got fully functional limbs. Correct gearbox.

My limbs are happy with their designated roles...

Right hand, steering wheel
Right leg, throttle and brake pedals
Left leg, laid back chillin
Left hand, Starbucks

 

[ForceIndia]

You get more interaction from a manual. There's no debate there. Yes dsg is better for chasing lap times. Yes it's better if you're stuck in traffic.

But is dsg more fun when you're driving down a b-road? No. That's why Porsche have done the gt4 and the R. That's why a manual box is the biggest request Pagani are getting from customers. It's why a manual 430 or 599 commands a premium.

Horses for courses. I'd rather do more when driving, not less.

 

[Addicted]

For a daily the auto is great. He already has a track car so not sure why this is even a discussion lol.

 

[matty w]

You get more interaction from a manual. There's no debate there. Yes dsg is better for chasing lap times. Yes it's better if you're stuck in traffic.

But is dsg more fun when you're driving down a b-road? No. That's why Porsche have done the gt4 and the R. That's why a manual box is the biggest request Pagani are getting from customers. It's why a manual 430 or 599 commands a premium.

Horses for courses. I'd rather do more when driving, not less.

Not trying to be argumentative but the Cayman R had option of pdk box an can order the gt4 with pdk box now or shortly due to demand from Porsche owners

 

[ForceIndia]

I owned a mk7


Not trying to be argumentative but the Cayman R had option of pdk box an can order the gt4 with pdk box now or shortly due to demand from Porsche owners

There's never been a pdk option. The Clubsport (track only) has pdk only, which is where the confusion seems to have crept in on forums etc.
I've not read anything on any reputable site about Porsche offering pdk, unless something has changed recently. Which would be odd given that gt4 production is completely sold out?

 

[matty w]

There's never been a pdk option. The Clubsport (track only) has pdk only, which is where the confusion seems to have crept in on forums etc.
I've not read anything on any reputable site about Porsche offering pdk, unless something has changed recently. Which would be odd given that gt4 production is completely sold out?

Here's where I read it an says it was the head of Porsches gt division who announced it.
http://gtspirit.com/2015/09/03/porsche-cayman-gt4-getting-pdk-option/

I've looked at a few pdk Cayman R's so they definitely made those. I'd love one but just can't stomach the price of them

 

[Rich-D]

You get more interaction from a manual. There's no debate there. Yes dsg is better for chasing lap times. Yes it's better if you're stuck in traffic.

But is dsg more fun when you're driving down a b-road? No. That's why Porsche have done the gt4 and the R. That's why a manual box is the biggest request Pagani are getting from customers. It's why a manual 430 or 599 commands a premium.

Horses for courses. I'd rather do more when driving, not less.

My M5 was manual, my Golf is DSG, I like & appreciate both gearboxes, but I'd probably get a manual M3 as well TBH, although I'd not turn down a DCT M3 either.

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

Here's where I read it an says it was the head of Porsches gt division who announced it.
http://gtspirit.com/2015/09/03/porsche-cayman-gt4-getting-pdk-option/

I've looked at a few pdk Cayman R's so they definitely made those. I'd love one but just can't stomach the price of them

Sounds legit.

 

[ForceIndia]

Here's where I read it an says it was the head of Porsches gt division who announced it.
http://gtspirit.com/2015/09/03/porsche-cayman-gt4-getting-pdk-option/

I've looked at a few pdk Cayman R's so they definitely made those. I'd love one but just can't stomach the price of them

Yeah, that's beyond hearsay. Apparently a forum member spoke to him, and he confirmed it. But that was last year, and nothings happened and the entire production run has been spoken for.

I've no doubt the next generation will offer both, the gt4 was a test bed to see how manual would be received.

The R I referred to is the 911r.

 

[ForceIndia]

My M5 was manual, my Golf is DSG, I like & appreciate both gearboxes, but I'd probably get a manual M3 as well TBH, although I'd not turn down a DCT M3 either.

If I had the space for 2 cars, I'd have an auto and a manual. But for 1 car to do everything I want, Manuel works better for me. But I very rarely have to deal with traffic.

 

[Rich-D]

If I had the space for 2 cars, I'd have an auto and a manual. But for 1 car to do everything I want, Manuel works better for me. But I very rarely have to deal with traffic.

When I was running 2 cars, I had the M5 manual and the 330d auto, now I'm down to 1 car again, DSG is a nice mix IMO, but suits the Golf well

 

[Ant1]

Veryyyyy nice.

 

[david hodson]

Theres also a good point on these DSG,PDK,SMG, ZF autos boxes is that on secondhand cars there big bucks to fix or replace compared to a manual, so a manual M3 makes sense

 

[DannyR]

Theres also a good point on these DSG,PDK,SMG, ZF autos boxes is that on secondhand cars there big bucks to fix or replace compared to a manual, so a manual M3 makes sense

You'd be mad to buy one without warranty to be honest. Making it a null point

 

[philmots]

I'd probably go manual too, I'd rather DCT but how reliable is it?

Only thing I'd have out of warranty is a ZF auto.

 

[DannyR]

I'd probably go manual too, I'd rather DCT but how reliable is it?

Only thing I'd have out of warranty is a ZF auto.

DCT is reliable. As is DSG, as long as it's serviced correctly.

 

[Sir_Dave]

I always felt the E90 M3 manual would be more of a natural progression for me than an E60 M5 would, will get one at some point, E90 > E92 as well IMO, but I'd have either.

I think you need to try one then, the way people talk about the e39 M5, i think an e90 would be a good natural progression, although from what you say, the lack of torque below 2k rpm would be different to the e39, you do need to make sure of the box a decent amount in the e90. On the flipside, having just been down to Cornwall for the weekend, whilst it is epic letting it fully rev out to 8k+ rpm, it travels ground really rather well from 3-5k rpm and with the 2 pipe mod does sound wonderful. The noise under load in that rev range is sublime, lovely induction noise along with the warble/wail of the V8, my god does it love to rev though, the throttle response is magic even in normal mode, in Sport Plus its electric.

Its got plenty of space for 4 people and their luggage and cruises quietly at 80mph with a decent sound system & full iPod integration (the "base" sound system is also more than good, far better than in the M135i where it was terrible!), with the EDC set to "comfort" the ride quality is very good, with some slight firmness added in "normal", "Sport" will be set for when im by myself and the roads are billiard table smooth i think, the M Button is currently set for Sport+ throttle, Sport steering, Normal EDC and TC On, if i want MDM ill turn that on manually i think.

All in all, ive owned it for a week and done 1k miles over a variety of roads & speeds, both myself & with 4 up. Barring the slight thirst, 15 around town, 24 on the trip to Cornwall (compared to 27 in the e46 M3 and 31 in the M135i) and small fuel tank (just enough range to get from Weybridge to Penzance), i can safely declare (thankfully as its cost more than anything else ive owned), that its the best car ive had, quite easily.

It surpasses the wonderful e46. Whilst do miss the rasp of that car, the V8 sounds fantastic in a different way, more broad chested/deep and it just sings to the top end. Easier than the 6 in the earlier cars imho, it never sounds strained, similar to the vtec lumps in a Honda, it feels like if there was no limiter it would happily go far higher with no sign of strain or unhappiness. The overall usability and feel of the car is just that bit better than the older ones, but again, imho, better than the new ones, purely as the quality of the interior materials is just higher, perhaps the e92/e90 era was a great one as it matched the higher build quality of the e46's with the modern tech of the F30's, but without the penny pinching of the modern era, im not sure, but i do love the car. The perfect family car perhaps, but bugger me, it wont be cheap to own i dont think.

I can give a Fiesta ST new or old more stick and have more fun down a twisty ish style road, horses for courses? Subjective? The whole reason Dave needs a fun car, is because M3s aren't fun on the whole. They excite Dave the same way an old Frp rust bucket excites me even parked up at the side of the road.

I know what you mean, i can have fun bouncing down the road at 50 in the mini and probably overstep the limits of grip at legal speeds, in all seriousness, you'd having to be driving like an under helmet to breach the limits of the e90 in the dry on Super Sports, in the wet, im pretty sure sideways will be a mere prod of the throttle away ...

Wrong gearbox 😧

Disagree tbh, we need to make the most of manual whilst its still available. Personally, i also find that no matter how brilliant the gearbox is, it still cant see up the road and anticipate the right gear ratio like i can, i just prefer the interaction, not on the commute perhaps, but the 'box/clutch in this is far lighter than the one from an Volvo Truck they fitted in the e46 lol.

 

[SOHROB]

Will you be getting BMW warranty? The only reason I ask is you mentioned upgrading the I drive control. I took a pre-facelift in p/x which had the I drive control update and we had lots of problems when it came to AUC'ing the car and in the end we just traded it.

 

[_Tom]

Not a enough low down torque maaaate, should have bought a diesel. :laughing: Christ alive..

 

[JackD]

Not a enough low down torque maaaate, should have bought a diesel. :laughing: Christ alive..

It's true, in order for this to even be a mildly enjoyable driving experience Dave must buy this...
http://forums.m3cutters.co.uk/showthread.php?t=149144

 

[Sir_Dave]

Will you be getting BMW warranty? The only reason I ask is you mentioned upgrading the I drive control. I took a pre-facelift in p/x which had the I drive control update and we had lots of problems when it came to AUC'ing the car and in the end we just traded it.

If i do anything, it would be the CIC controller only, not the full system, although whilst the controller is cheap, the centre console is not, so £300 for slightly easier use? Probably not worth it tbh, would rather spend the £300 on fuel lol. Re: the warranty, as the car is on 61k miles, its £275 a month (would have been "only" £112 before 60k miles), so probably wont be getting it 😂

It's true, in order for this to even be a mildly enjoyable driving experience Dave must buy this...
http://forums.m3cutters.co.uk/showthread.php?t=149144

That is ridiculous. But completely unnecessary :tongueclosed:

 

[Stay Puft]

£275 per month for warranty?!!!

 

[clio007]

Cant you just state mileage is 59,998 when entering details on the website :smilingimp:

 

[Cup_Phil]

Yup, 'tis me, i thought it might have been you with that grey cab, then i went on POT and it was confirmed!
Why did you buy a cab though, mid life crisis i assume 😂 Does look lovely to be fair!!

Literally this mate, broke up with girlfriend, got a pay rise, bought a convertible

 

[Sir_Dave]

Cant you just state mileage is 59,998 when entering details on the website :smilingimp:

I probably would have lol, had the previous owner not had the Bluetooth module replaced by BMW at 60,635. Doh.
Even then though, £112 a month is a hell of a lot for warranty!!

Literally this mate, broke up with girlfriend, got a pay rise, bought a convertible :wink:

Ha ha, excellent work Phil!! 😂

First issue has now risen its head. Left the car last night and all was fine, this morning the drivers side door handle has taken a rather hefty whack from a car door. Its right on the edge near the lock so needs replacing, otherwise its going to pi$$ me off every time i open it up!!! I know it was perfect last night as im currently locking/unlocking the car with the key :rage: Needless to say, prime suspect is next doors sh1tty mk3 Golf cabrio, its passenger door swing would have taken it straight into my door handle, & there are handbag/fat ar5e marks all the way down the side of my car in the dust. Unimpressed, ive only had it a week FFS. Part is £25 delivered, but it'll need spraying as well :disrelieved:

 

[-Rob]

Mk3 Golf Cabrios react well to a foot in the centre of the door.

 

[BIFCAIDS]

Well Dave besides all the arguing about fun, its lovely! I love driving my Dads E92, the noise is special when it get going. You can keep your Mercs with their loud exhausts, its all about being subtle until the time is right not farting and spluttering at 30mph.

 

[Martin.]

Re: the warranty, as the car is on 61k miles, its £275 a month (would have been "only" £112 before 60k miles), so probably wont be getting it 😂

That is VERY expensive wow!

It's 'only' £79 a month for me when I extend.