Mk1 F4R/172'd Track Car Project [Year 3 - Engine and Chassis Rebuild]

[Matteh]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

yeh I think I remember telling you about that. I've got my OBC connected to the white wire and that works (gives the correct signal)

I've just looked at autodata and the white wire should be 0 and 5v switching, I'll have to measure my voltage tomorrow and see what my input voltage is... we might be having issues with 5v and 12v. I'll see what my pins are tomorrow too!

 

[Jay Payne]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

^ so from what you are saying the speedo sensor is a 5volt but F0xy is running 12v ign feed to it?

If thats it them take a 5volt feed from one of the oter sensors. TPS etc

If I get a chance tomorrow i'll check mine to see if its 12v or 5 volt if needed

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

How could i get 12v down to 5v without running it from elsewhere?

 

[Hutchie]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

How could i get 12v down to 5v without running it from elsewhere?

172 ecu puts out 5v to other sensors iirc

tdc
map

etc

would mean altering wires but sure you will work it out

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

just means unwrapping all my neat engine bay to add a wire in....if i can reduce it inline would be far easier lol

 

[Hutchie]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

just means unwrapping all my neat engine bay to add a wire in....if i can reduce it inline would be far easier lol

give wire 5volts at ecu end of loom saves unwrapping it all

 

[Daz Clio Cup]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

give wire 5volts at ecu end of loom saves unwrapping it all

or do it internally in the ecu

 

[Andrew Cooke]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

I only know about PH2 wiring, but in the PH2 yellow is always switched live, and black is earth. The speed sensor is a 3 pin thing with yellow at the top with the other 2 side by side below.

 

[snick01]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

yehh, just find a 5 volt constant voltage in the ecu and feed from that... or use a small voltage regulator from the 12v line

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

Yeah...in the mk1 wiring, Pin1=Live,Pin2=Switched Signal,Pin3=Earth.....but its just weather the live is 12v or 5v....i dont think its 5v, as when I removed it from the loom in the first place it was just getting a feed from a joint on another iginition live (IIRC anyway)

 

[Matteh]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

yeh, it was just a musing

 

[Hutchie]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

good luck with it anyway

 

[Matteh]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

did a little test today...

firstly, the yellow is +12v, so no faffing with +5v
secondly, the car loom and the speedo loom don't match up colour wise - the speedo loom is 'wrong'

'car' side of the loom:

'speedo' side of the loom:

as you can see, yellow and white are reversed on the speedo side (so white gets +12v and yellow is the signal wire)

the car side of the loom is correct, so go off that. starting at the side next to the clip, live, signal, earth

also, the white wire outputs 0/12V switching (tested by driving slowly ) which kinda makes sense given the input, however, autodata says it should be 0 and 5v :S

but there you go!

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

il try and find out what the 172 ecu needs on that pin for it to work..


I sorted the brakes this afternoon, replaced the rear lines with the braided ones (fronts already done), also cleaned up the compensating valve, moves freely now...Bled the whole lot through again, seems ok. Under very very heavy breaking the rears lock up.....does this mean I have to unwind that valve on the beam, or tighten it?

Done about 50 miles since then, and I can feel the pedals changed a tiny bit, maybe there is still a tiny bit of air in there, might re-bleed the lot to be certain

 

[Daz Clio Cup]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

il try and find out what the 172 ecu needs on that pin for it to work..


I sorted the brakes this afternoon, replaced the rear lines with the braided ones (fronts already done), also cleaned up the compensating valve, moves freely now...Bled the whole lot through again, seems ok. Under very very heavy breaking the rears lock up.....does this mean I have to unwind that valve on the beam, or tighten it?

Done about 50 miles since then, and I can feel the pedals changed a tiny bit, maybe there is still a tiny bit of air in there, might re-bleed the lot to be certain

Unwind the nut on valve to reduce rear pressure

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

yet another day of my life put into this damn car!!

Set about sorting quite a bit today, few knocking noises coming from up front, exhaust rattling on the bodywork somewhere and brakes (yes again)...

Sorted the knocking (driveshaft/hub nut slightly loose), then spanner checked the rest of the suspension/steering, all good.

Exhaust was next....tried moving it around a bit, but couldnt get the parts of the exhaust to push together anymore than they already were, so decided to remove the system from the downpipe back....big mistake that was

Got it off easily, came to try and get the parts together more, but the pipes were not perfectly round (clamped/unclamped so many times)....so got nowhere with that. Decided to leave it and re-fit it, hopefully adjusting it slightly as it went on....again, no such look...more rattles than before

Last thing was the brakes....they were working pretty good to be honest for a while, rears locking up, so there was enough braking power...

I adjusted the valve as above, then cable tied it fully open, as I wanted to re-bleed the brakes, as I could feel the pedal going slightly once or twice, as if there was still some air in the lines....

Decided to do it the normal way, one person pumping, other doing the nipples etc...this was the procedure I used...

1. All 4 wheels off, on stands.
2. Checked level of brake fluid, cap back on.
3. Pumped pedal hard, held it, undid bleed nipple (furthest away), some air came out, pedal to the floor and held, closed nipple, release pedal.
4. Pumped pedal hard again, held it, undid bleed nipple (furthest away), no air this time, just fluid, pedal to the floor and held, closed nipple, release pedal.

Great I thought, did the other 3 in order exactly the same. I thought, just to be certain I will go round once more, starting furtest away.

Pumped pedal hard, held, opened nipple....more air? same amount as last time too? anyway, pedal went to floor, held, closed nipple, released pedal. Once again, did that one a second time, no air....just fluid.

The same happened with the other three.....seems I get air, then no air....then onto the next one, air then no air, etc.....just seems to be going round in a circle!

No matter how many times I went round the car, air would always come out 1 in 2 two times....why would this be happening? Could it be drawing air in from somewhere? There are no leaks, and they are all new hoses.

 

[powey]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

Is the pedal completely to the floor when the nipple is tightened?

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

yeah....it 'appears' to bleed perfectly, same as other cars ive done

but every other time, the air comes back through

 

[powey]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

what about doing a gravity bleed? think thats right?

is the fluid cold when your doing it

 

[Daz Clio Cup]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

try shutting the valve just before pedal hits the floor, while fluid is still moving out and maybe not letting air back in when you shut the valve

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

not sure, ive got an ezeebleed kit too, using tyre/air pressure to force the fluid through, same happens....

daz...why would it happen on the fronts though too? exact same issue...

surely if the valve is fully open, its just like bleeding the front brakes?

 

[powey]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

What if you flush fluid out more than 5 times? like if the air is trapped in a few places?

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

repeated the bleeding around 12-14 times per caliper today, gone through a full bottle of fluid!

 

[Daz Clio Cup]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

master cylinder is fucked? maybe

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

i thought that, but then thought how, ive not changed anything, unless its just bad luck

 

[Hutchie]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

i thought that, but then thought how, ive not changed anything, unless its just bad luck

you seem to attract it for some reason :dapprove:

 

[Daz Clio Cup]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

i fucked the seals on a 205 by bleeding the brakes before

 

[Ryair]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

i f**ked the seals on a 205 by bleeding the brakes before

Ditto, but on a Fiesta XR2!

Hope you get it sorted.

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

Will investigate further tommorow.

Just a quick catch up....Fitted allsorts recently, Braided lines, etc...freshly painted Ph1 Bootlid, Ph1 Mirrors, Ph1 Rear lights, Ph1 Sidestrips....gave the whole thing a clean and went for some pics

Got all the parts needed to do the scuttle filter setup now too, viper was only temporary...more in the next few days

 

[-JB-]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

Looking sweet as ever!
Have you sussed the rev limiting issue while driving now then?

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

nah mate...its to do with the way the 172 ECU works.

It needs a reading from the gearbox (on a ph1) to tell it what speed the cars moving at. We thought the mk1 system was the same, wire from the speedo cable, and ran it back to the ECU, but it dosent give a readout (or the 172 ecu dosent understand it)...So basically the car thinks im stood still all the time when im acctually driving, revving, etc...

Im hopefully getting hold of a 172 ph1 gearbox speed sensor (fits into the 1.8 box im using), which will fix the revs issue, BUT, stop the speedo on the dash working lol....So im just trying that as a test for now!

 

[mini-valver]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

You're not running ABS, right?

If not, use the ABS sensors as wheel speed sensors to run the speedo and he box sender for the ECU input.

 

[Matteh]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

your speedo cable doesnt seem to be outputting a signal..

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

You're not running ABS, right?

If not, use the ABS sensors as wheel speed sensors to run the speedo and he box sender for the ECU input.

no ABS sensors in the hubs or rings on the driveshafts, both removed

your speedo cable doesnt seem to be outputting a signal..

ive tried 3 speedo cables now....Im either not turning it slow enough to output, or they are all farked (which would be a rediculous co-incidence)

If i have the + and - the right way, the signal wire outputs 0 all the time, if i put them the other way, the signal outputs 12v all the time (as said)....but i never see it 'flick'

 

[mini-valver]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

Good luck, lol.

 

[Matteh]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

mine flicks

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

ghey yours is broke then

I better get cracking with sorting the car out ....got loads booked for it this summer...

May - Brands Hatch
June - FCS
July - Nurburgring
August - Cadwell Park
September - Oulton Park

And maybe another one in the middle somewhere.....cage needs welding in next, along with pages worth of other stuff ive wrote down!

 

[Matteh]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

if you watch the last 3rd when i slowly move forward again, you can see it flick between 12 and 0.. even on a laggy multimeter

 

[ben_p]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

Foxy ive got a spare speedo sensor you can have at mine if you need one.

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

ok then matt, lol...i better get working out why mine dosent (or if my multi meter is s**t)

ben, cheers....i *may* be in touch to come and get it