Mk1 F4R/172'd Track Car Project [Year 3 - Engine and Chassis Rebuild]

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

Unsure, I personally think the subframes bent, but there is no way of checking to be honest....

The wishbone has moved to a different position than it was for the past few months, so something must have changed geometry wise, as the steering is still wandering to fu*k. Nothing else would make the tracking out, so something must have bent/moved!

Its not a *huge* job to remove the subframe, about half hour or so. But id be wanting to get another one first, along with getting the bushes welded to the wishbones, which means I need access to a press too

 

[Bluebeard]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

Do Renault still make/sell Williams subframes?

I want a new one really...

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

I think you can still get them yeah, doubt it will be cheap mind.

Id just personally get a good condition one, sandblast/dip it then get it powdercoated, comes up like new for a fraction of the cost...

 

[Hutchie]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

with a subframe sat on the floor, you can measure distance to bolt hole from the floor to make sure its not twisted.

mine is but it straightens out in the car :rasp:

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

I remembered earlier ive got a spare that came off the blue valver (well I hope I kept it)...

If thats the case there is a few modifications I want to make to it regarding radiator mounting which ive been meaning to do for ages. Then il whip my current one off, press the bushes out and weld the sleeves up solid. Push the bushes back in and build everything up on the modified subframe.....kill two birds with one stone.

 

[Hutchie]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

I remembered earlier ive got a spare that came off the blue valver (well I hope I kept it)...

If thats the case there is a few modifications I want to make to it regarding radiator mounting which ive been meaning to do for ages. Then il whip my current one off, press the bushes out and weld the sleeves up solid. Push the bushes back in and build everything up on the modified subframe.....kill two birds with one stone.

tbh im semi glad its not just me funking about with subframes,
my fix is a grider though :rasp:

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

Well, il be using a grinder to cut a section out

Then fab a plate to re-fit out of some 3mm sheet, so the radiator mounting is the full width instead of stopping 7/8ths of the way across like it does standard. With it all the same level all the way along I can mount the 172 radiator properly without bodging like it currently is

 

[olly_mango]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

You going to be there again? What day?

I dont have an RSTuner anymore so hopefully you wont need any diag this time!

Yea i'll be there both days again. Yea cheers for that last time, hopefully it wont go wrong again this time, might buy an RSTuner eventually just incase.

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

Cool!


Well as for me thinking I had a spare subframe, I dont

I remembered chucking it in the blue valvers shell as it was being picked up for scrap as it was all rusty. Hopefully will be able to get hold of one sometime soon!

 

[Matteh]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

meh, wedge the rad in

be reet

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

Yeah its 'doing the job' at the moment without any issues....but i want it perfect ha!

Plus if im replacing it anyway I may aswell do it while its off

 

[Whiteley]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

Perfect isn't Riggy though, leave it as is, breeeeet as said.

 

[Andrew Cooke]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

does a 172 subframe fit? I have one sat on the floor if you need it.

What does the front wishbone bush/mount look like? That's the one that should stop the wishbone moving back.

 

[BRUN]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

subframe - £361+vat

from France only so no returns or cancellations possible once ordered

can do one for £299 all in, best price

 

[Nafoff]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

good to see people properly doing builds like this....

do really like this motor

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

does a 172 subframe fit? I have one sat on the floor if you need it.

What does the front wishbone bush/mount look like? That's the one that should stop the wishbone moving back.

I would love to know if it would, but i doubt the steering rack mounting is the same.....where are you based?

the front one looks OK, the wishbone is flush upto the larger part of the bush and the sleeve hasnt moved by the looks of things...this leads me to believe that if the rear mount sleeve is in the wrong position (moved) 172 wishbones must be wider than valver/williams/19 items, as its like that on both sides :S

with regards to the bush being squashed, i think something must have bent

subframe - £361+vat

from France only so no returns or cancellations possible once ordered

can do one for £299 all in, best price

lol, il stick with the £10 one on offer in mansfield :rasp:

good to see people properly doing builds like this....

do really like this motor

thanks :approve:

 

[BRUN]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

lol, you know you would love one really

100% straight and brand spanking new

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

I could do 2 trackdays with that sort of money, once again I know which one im choosing

 

[Andrew Cooke]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

I would love to know if it would, but i doubt the steering rack mounting is the same.....where are you based?

the front one looks OK, the wishbone is flush upto the larger part of the bush and the sleeve hasnt moved by the looks of things...this leads me to believe that if the rear mount sleeve is in the wrong position (moved) 172 wishbones must be wider than valver/williams/19 items, as its like that on both sides :S

I'm in North Oxfordshire (OX7), so a bit of a trek for a looksie. Since I have the 172 and GTT bits here I'll try and have a look at what's what. It's dark and wet at the moment, so my interest is limited

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

I was down there yesterday! Doh!

Im picking a valver subframe up in the morning, but thanks for the offer anyway. Im sure I remember seeing different steering rack mounts on a 172, but not 100%...

Ive been looking through my old build pictures and it seems the wishbones fitted fine when the bushes were first fitted. So im going to whip them off and weld the sleeves up, then fit them onto a fresh subframe and go from there

 

[maynard]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

where you got to go to get the new subframe?

 

[Mark One]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

3mm plate might be a touch thick to weld into the front of the subframe, they are very thin up there

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

where you got to go to get the new subframe?

I was heading over to mansfield this morning to pick one up from a C16V member, but I got waylaid and didnt have time (2hours each way)...So il just have to see what other options ive got more locally for now.

3mm plate might be a touch thick to weld into the front of the subframe, they are very thin up there

Yeah, well the radiator 'flat' is 1mm or so normally isnt it? Its going to be cut out all the way upto the main runner of the subframe, the part that bolts upto the front, which is alot thicker? Ive got some 2mm somewhere, but really it dosent need to be heavy duty as its only holding a radiator I suppose!

 

[Mark One]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

sounds good. As you say the radiator 'flat' is very thin, so something like 1.5/2mm would be ideal. Not easy to weld!

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

Ball joint removed etc, but driveshaft still in place, passenger side btw.....much play? LOL.

This could maybe explain alot, FFS.

Still, all stripped down now anyway, off to get the wishbone bushes pressed out and sleeves welded up!

 

[Whiteley]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

Ooh lovely. New bearing and everything will be reet?

 

[Mark One]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

lol. Did you put the 172 hubs in with new bearings? or just bang em on? If they were new, then that's impressive bearing consumption!

 

[Whiteley]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

They were new I believe. I'm checking mine before it goes back together!

 

[Andrew Cooke]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

is that a 16V hub in a 172 bearing? the loose bit looks to be where it should be a tight fit rather than the bearing itself being loose.

 

[Whiteley]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

172 hubs as he's running 172 driveshafts. Splined part is a bigger diameter than 16v shafts.

 

[Andrew Cooke]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

172 hubs as he's running 172 driveshafts. Splined part is a bigger diameter than 16v shafts.

same reason that I'm using 172 driveshafts on my Twingo.

Something that does look odd to me is where the hubs were thinned from 26mm to 22mm, on the Twingo I thinned them to 23mm for a perfect fit, is 22mm right?

Andy

 

[Whiteley]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

When I measured for mine I needed 22mm, well from what I could tell using non-digi verniers anyway. My method of reducing them wasn't quite as accurate as having them machined though.

Don't really see that being related though, I'd imagine the 2 strut>hub bolts would pinch the strut slightly to take away any slight gap would they not.

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

They are 172 hubs and 172 bearings, the drivers side is perfect with no movement.

22mm was perfect, the williams shocks are a tight fit onto the hubs, running with 172 bolts too...

Mark, yes they were new, lol. Update coming shortly

 

[Bluebeard]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

Mine were machined to 22mm too. Was a tight fit, but a good fit!

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

Ok, all stripped down today...Hubs/Wishbones/etc off.

Drivers side wishbone, sleeve has moved on the rear bush...

Passenger side wishbone, sleeve on the rear bush has also moved, but by much more...

Bit of chewed-ness...

Before those were taken off, I noticed there was a LOT of play in the stub axle/driveshaft on the passenger side, as shown in the video above. Here it is again:

Got it off, and the bearing is shot. This has not even covered 10k, the other side is 100% fine, which is odd.

So off to factors and picked up a new bearing, £30. Will have to fit this tommorow. Im guessing this could definitely explain the wandering steering, although you could not feel that play through the wheel with the car jacked up which was odd...

I also noticed on the drivers hub, the pinch bolt for the balljoint was done up as tight as it would go, but the balljoint could still rotate freely...

I originally thought it had worn down, but then thought how if the pinch bolt is as tight as it would go. Anyway, I asked about this when I was at the factors, and apparently there are two types, 14mm and 16mm diameter, so be careful if you're buying balljoints separately....This wont have helped the dodgy handling either!

Pressed the bushes out of the wishbones next using the milling machine of all things, adjusable table had to come in useful at some point, who needs a press!

I then pressed the sleeves after a bit of faffing into the correct position ready for welding, flush on the inside edges...

Will be getting those welded solid on the outside edge tomorrow, and fitting the bearing into the hub. Then comes the fun of putting it all back together!

More Soon.

 

[Guppy]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

Is she gonna be ready for the Pod on Saturday, Jord?

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

Not sure yet TBH, depends how it goes when its all back together tomorrow, tracking is going to be miles out too at a guess now!

 

[Guppy]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

Not sure yet TBH, depends how it goes when its all back together tomorrow, tracking is going to be miles out too at a guess now!

Ball's

Wanted a good look at this on the weekend :dapprove:

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

Aint even received trax stand pass that was meant to be sent yet... CBA f**king around with it all last minute tbh.

 

[Guppy]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

Aint even received trax stand pass that was meant to be sent yet... CBA f**king around with it all last minute tbh.

Gutting :dapprove:

Fingers crossed for you dude!

Hopefully see you on the weekend.