Mk1 F4R/172'd Track Car Project [Year 3 - Engine and Chassis Rebuild]

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

Heat, socket and a hammer? Or will it require pressing?

Well, nothing worked lol. Mainly down to me not having the correct press tooling I think...

I only have the outer bearing race (or sleeve/housing) left in the disk, but didnt have the right size bit to press it out. We tried but it wouldnt budge at all, so im not sure if a hammer would do anything :dapprove:

If all else fails I guess its bigger press time!

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

Better press got the old sleeve out. New bearing pressed in, fitted and back driving again

Got some better footage now the exhaust is done and fitted properly too...

[youtube]ShDBfhSuPwE[/youtube]

 

[jamie rigby]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

glad its sorted again!

wheelspin much?...

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

Loosing my f**king patience with this car now, few months of trouble free running then all of a sudden everything goes wrong again.

Driving it round problem free all day yesterday, then parked it up at home. Went out in another car and got home later on, went to start it. Fuel pump primes, engine cranks over, just doesn't fire up. Tried again, same.

Left it until this morning. Tried it again, Fuel pump primes, engine cranks over, just doesn't fire up. First thing I thought, classic immobiliser issue...Allows it to prime and crank and just cuts fuel/injectors on cranking...EXACTLY what its doing.

Anyway, decided to swap the crank (CPS) sensor for a spare working one that I have. Still the same, nothing. Checked all the fuses in the engine bay and swapped the relays round with a different set. Still nothing. Took the ECU off and opened it up to check the emulator was still connected, 100% fine. Thought it may have got damp, but no...perfectly dry inside. Put it back together and plugged it back in. Tried to start it, exactly the same.

Checked all the wiring and connectors, everythings fine. Ive not touched the engine bay for weeks, yet all of a sudden it starts playing stupid f*cking games again.

What else is there to check anyone? Had stuff to do today and this car was last on the list. W**k.

 

[Andrew Cooke]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

are you getting sparks? coil wiring OK?

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

Well the fuel pump isnt even running on cranking (nor are injectors), so to me that points at immobiliser/or/crank sensor problem

Ive put the old crank sensor back on, that I know was working yesterday...

Unsure if its sparking, but I dont think the ECU will fire them if its not running the pump or injectors

 

[Savi]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

I've got a fuel problem but the sparks were still sparking. Lift the spark plug leads and see if its speaking. Could be a dodgy fuel pump or fuel lines?

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

Fuel pump is fine, primes and runs on ignition. Just does not run on cranking.

If the 172 ECU is not getting a crank signal, or valid immobiliser unlock code (from the emulator in my case), it will let it crank over but wont let it fire. It disables the injector relay in the engine fusebox, which in turn doesn't allow the fuel pump to run....immobilising the car.

Swapped crank sensors (both known working) and this hasn't changed anything, so Im thinking it has to be a problem with the immobiliser. Matteh had a similar issue last week (running the same emulator as me), and one day he went back out to it and it started fine, problem is we will never know what it is causing that.

Problem is I have not got any sort of diagnostics to check it now, as I sold the RSTuner. If I had one, and tried to connect to the car....if my theory is correct about the immobiliser being active it would just throw up an error saying could not connect. Had that happen last time before the emulator was fitted.

I checked the emulator was getting power+earth, which it is...so im stumped at the moment!

 

[geesus69]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

exactly what mine was doing, just on a more regular basis, i bought omex and ITB's in the end

on cranking check if you are getting voltage at the coil pack (the white power wire, but im sure you know that already) if you aren't, that is exactly what mine was doing. gives a priming voltage to coil pack and fuel pump, then under cranking nothing.

i put it down to a weird immobiliser/wiring problem aswell, but i never had chance to diagnose it properly as it would randomly start and run without me touching anything :S

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

Did you ever change the coilpack to see if it was that?!

Il check the voltage at the white wire in a minute. Thing is, last time I had this issue was when I never even had an emulator, and since i fitted it, its ran 100% trouble free, until now! there is no intermittent fault, just started today

 

[geesus69]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

never changed the coilpack as i couldnt see how that was causing a problem. as you know the coilpack and fuel pump power feed works off the same pin on the fuel pump relay, so i figured the problem was from there backwards on the wiring (towards the ecu if you get me)

i always wanted to try my ecu on another 172 to see if it would work with no problems, that way i could have eliminated the ecu/emulator from the equation, never got round to it though

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

yeah.

I just tested it, its giving out 12v for a second or so on ignition (when pump primes)...then around 10v while cranking (same as the pump, tested at that end too). So I know the coilpack is getting power when cranking...

Did yours just show 0v?

 

[geesus69]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

yep 0v for mine under cranking

your getting more than i did then lol

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

It may well be getting a voltage, but weather the coilpack is firing the spark plugs is another matter, will check that now.

Going to pop the fuel line off and into a jerry can, and crank it to see if any fuel comes out.....if im right in saying it should come out on cranking aye?

If it does come out im stumped....the problem has to either be coilpack or injectors (relay maybe), you think?

 

[geesus69]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

yeh fuel should come out on cranking, i thought you said the fuel pump doesnt run on cranking? but you have 10v at the connector?

this is where it got harder for me to test things, other than removing a spark plug or removing a plug from the coil pack (and watching for it jumping the gap) i was a bit stumped

i almost bought one of those injector test light things to make life easier

is there a way to check the 2 signal wires on the coil pack? just to make sure the ecu is converting the signal from the cps to the coilpack

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

Unsure, il try the other two things first.

Wish I hadnt sold the RSTuner now so I could plug it in and get some diag back...assuming its not the immobiliser causing this, it would connect perfectly fine and show any faults (TDC/crank sensor would show as a fault, seen it on there before when I left it unplugged).

I was just trying to find the diagram of the 172 engine bay relays, as in which is which. I only have 4 present, one yellow one and 3 small black ones...Was going to swap the injector one for a fresh, but cant remember which it is!

Was just going to say do i need to take the inlet manifold off....how far will it jump from the coilpack if its working ok?

 

[Mark One]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

I agree with you when you say it sounds like an immobiliser. I'd be trying to get it plugged in asap to see what it's upset about.
Whatever happened to the standalone plan?

 

[geesus69]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

ta da

althugh there is no injector relay, just ecu control (power)

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

I agree with you when you say it sounds like an immobiliser. I'd be trying to get it plugged in asap to see what it's upset about.
Whatever happened to the standalone plan?

This winter was the plan, to go with the cams when they went back in. Ive sold the cams, but im still going to standalone it I think....mainly due to the fact that Il be able to transfer it to any other project in the future if I want to.

Cheers Ad, il go and try a few more things

 

[geesus69]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

no probs mate

good luck with it, i know all too well how frustrating it can be

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

ta da

althugh there is no injector relay, just ecu control (power)

Hmm so my 3 black ones are fuel pump, ECU power and fan control.....whats the big yellow one? :S

 

[Matteh]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

fan high speed

 

[geesus69]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

as matteh says, dual speed fan

i ditched mine and went for full speed all the way

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

Just took all the leads off, and left one 'resting' on its connector on the coilpack....no spark in sight though. Suppose I better take the inlet manifold off and test one of the plugs against the block, but I don't think its sparking at all.

 

[geesus69]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

is the fuel pump working when cranking now?

when i held one of my leads just above the coil pack there was a good strong spark, very loud aswell

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

Yeah, would of thought I would hear it...nothing at all though. It was resting on and I could just see the metal pin of the lead, but no spark in sight.

Fuel pump is getting voltage on cranking yeah, just going to test if its coming out at the rail on cranking now.

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

Its getting fuel for sure at the rail, popped the line off into a can and it comes out fine on cranking. Tried a spare lead + spark plug against the block from the coil and its getting nothing.

If it was an immobiliser issue the coil wouldnt be getting a voltage on cranking, nor would the fuel pump run.....but im getting both so I guess its safe to rule out the immobiliser. Same applies for the TDC sensor...so hopefully can rule that one out too.

Last but not least...getting no spark but the coilpack is getting a voltage...must be a dud coilpack surley?!

 

[Matteh]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

if you can check the injectors are firing that will tell you for sure

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

Cant really do that without taking the whole rail off and having 4 injectors splurting fuel out can I?!

 

[wilky19]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

this sounds a bit like what use to happen to my old 1.2d7f, a new coilpack seemed to sort it out.

do you know anyone who has a coil pack to could borrow to try, i thing its the same coil pack for 1.2 as the 172

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

Hopefully lending one from someone in a bit if I can get a lift down there, if I put that on and it works, problem solved! If not, well il be stumped!

 

[Daz Clio Cup]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

can't you just put a 12v bulb into the injector plug (with some wires) and it should light when inj is firing. you can do the same for the coilpack too

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

possibly, I was just going to multi-meter the earth of the injector plug and test cont. between it and an earth on the chassis...

Im going to try the coilpack first and hope for the best, if not then il have to try it

 

[Mark One]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

injector duration at tickover is going to be very very small. Best bet is surely to remove the rail and squirt some fuel everywhere (but I don't speak from experience).

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

I just picked up a spare coilpack, will put it on in the morning and hopefully it will fire up.

If not il pop the fuel rail out and give that a try, sounds the easiest way to do it!

Dont see why it shouldn't be the coilpack though, as its getting a feed on cranking but not putting a spark out....hope its that anyway!

 

[jay s]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

one way to check injectors is to remove all spark plugs and crank the car over, should see fuel vapour shooting out the plug holes quite high lol

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

Yeah...although probably easier to pop the inlet manifold off and look down the lower inlet, can see the injectors near enough there

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

Coilpack fitted. Still doesn't start. FFS.

 

[ForceIndia]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

Always seem to be issues with Oulton!

 

[geesus69]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

Coilpack fitted. Still doesn't start. FFS.

pulse signal from ecu for spark? any easy way to check it?