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Mk1 F4R/172'd Track Car Project [Year 3 - Engine and Chassis Rebuild]



F

f0xy

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

apparently its the other two wires that get earthed according to sidewaysdanny in another thread...so I guess i could multi meter it.

Thing is though, im guessing there will be no signal for the spark....no idea what to go on then, as im unsure what would cause that to happen...

Last time my immobiliser was active there was 100% NO fuel on cranking, but I now have fuel on cranking, so who knows.

Batteries flat now though so il have to hang fire.
 
geesus69

geesus69

  F4R'd ITB'd '92 cup racer
Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

f0xy said:
apparently its the other two wires that get earthed according to sidewaysdanny in another thread...so I guess i could multi meter it.

Thing is though, im guessing there will be no signal for the spark....no idea what to go on then, as im unsure what would cause that to happen...

Last time my immobiliser was active there was 100% NO fuel on cranking, but I now have fuel on cranking, so who knows.

Batteries flat now though so il have to hang fire.
Click to expand...

dare i say a problem with the ecu? :S

this is where i got to with it mate, and then it would just start, without me 'fixing' anything :nono:
 
F

f0xy

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

Dont see how it could be an ECU problem though....unless ive been very unlucky and somethings fried. Had it open yesterday and it was bone dry inside, so cant be water damage.

Also, it did fire up for a second at least, twice when cranking, but cut out straight away (which I thought might have been coilpack, but obviously not)...

Yours was playing up way more often though wasn't it? Mines literally worked without any 'starting' issues since May, then all of a sudden its stopped completely. If it was going to start without me fixing anything I think it would have done it by now...Spent literally all day trying it yesterday, had everything off and back on and still nothing!
 
geesus69

geesus69

  F4R'd ITB'd '92 cup racer
Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

yeh mine did it alot more often :eek:

i dont know what else to suggest, have you been working on the car recently at all? removed any earths etc? maybe disrupted something?

i would definately charge the battery up to the max, i had all sorts of problems starting mine (even with the omex) when my battery was low on power (as paul at RStuning will confirm lol)
 
F

f0xy

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

Not touched it parts wise for around 2 weeks+ at least, was driving and starting perfectly fine all day wednesday, drove it home, parked it up....came out 4 hours later and nothing, just cranks and cranks and cranks.

Dont think anythings been disrupted, not much to disrupt. I had it all apart yesterday (even the loom off and re-fitted), double checked all connections etc.

Just waiting for someone to come with a spare battery so I can try and start it with a fully powered one...if that fails, well, im stumped!
 
A

Andrew Cooke

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

this is a big 'I think'...

with the ignition on, if you probe the 2 IGN wires at the ECU they should be 12V, that should check your wiring to and from the coil pack. Disconnect the coil and they should drop to 0V.

I'd need to check my notes at home to be certain.... so don't get overly stressed if you don't get that.
 
F

f0xy

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

Just connected a fresh battery to crank it over.....just exactly the same, cranks and cranks, this is with the replacement coilpack too.

Andrew....if im getting 2 x 12v's...does that mean the immobiliser is not active? or something else?
 
A

Andrew Cooke

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

f0xy said:
Andrew....if im getting 2 x 12v's...does that mean the immobiliser is not active? or something else?
Click to expand...
no, it just means that the 12V supply to the coil is getting there, going through the coil, and back to the ECU where it gets switched to ground to make a spark. Checks out the wiring and nothing more.

Assuming my memory is correct...
 
A

Andrew Cooke

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

from what you've said, it sounds like your immobiliser is OK. Is there a good ground from the coil pack to the block? I'm sure I read of someone having a problem with a painted plenum.
 
F

f0xy

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

Ah I understand what you mean now, yeah.

Im getting 12v at the coil when cranking no problem...Il check if its coming back too though.

Just swapped the TDC sensor for another known working item and there is no difference, so that has to be ruled out IMO.

Its just all pointing towards an immobiliser issue now :(
 
F

f0xy

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

Andrew Cooke said:
from what you've said, it sounds like your immobiliser is OK. Is there a good ground from the coil pack to the block? I'm sure I read of someone having a problem with a painted plenum.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but its been running fine without any issues (starting/running wise) for the past 4-5months, then all of a sudden it stops completely?!

Ive had so many different people tell me what the immobiliser does and does not block, so im confused as to what it acctually does on a ph1 if its active.

Ive got no spark, but ive got fuel... TDC swapped 3 times and no different...hmmm
 
F

f0xy

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

Just had RAC out to it.

Explained what had been swapped and tested, didnt help that its still pi**ing down too.

He suggested the ECU wasnt getting any power, but then I explained how that cant be possible as its priming the pump and running it on cranking :rolleyes:

He tried to connect via OBD and the ecu just would not accept the connection...He said if the immobiliser was active it would still connect....so god knows why that wont connect. My RSTuner worked flawlessly through it before I sold it, so there isnt an issue with the port.

Tested a few other things on the engine, all the sensors are getting 12v where required. The coil gets 12v on ignition, and then earths fine when its not.

Swapped the 3 relays in the engine bay, but they click on and off OK anyway when the ignition is turned on, so there cant be an issue there.


Nothing else to try now TBH. The guy suggested that its probably an internal ECU fault, but ive got no way of knowing if it is or not. Not much I can do!
 
F

f0xy

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

Gona put it on Chris's car and see if it runs....if it does we know the ECU is OK and there is something up with the car....or vise-versa.

Too bad hes too lazy and hasnt wired in the OBD port lol. Im sure I can find someone that will let me plug it in and connect though...
 
Daz Clio Cup

Daz Clio Cup

  TVR Cerbera
Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

f0xy said:
Gona put it on Chris's car and see if it runs....if it does we know the ECU is OK and there is something up with the car....or vise-versa.

Too bad hes too lazy and hasnt wired in the OBD port lol. Im sure I can find someone that will let me plug it in and connect though...
Click to expand...

Can't we plug the ecu into mine and use my obd port? I know it won't control the engine but just to look at the ecu?
 
TimR26

TimR26

South Central- West Berks
ClioSport Area Rep
Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

Hope you get this sorted, on the bright side least it's happened now with time to fix it before Oulton.
 
F

f0xy

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

Tested ECU on whiteleys car, exact same....so 100% an ECU issue.

Weather it is an immobiliser, or actual ECU fault is yet to be seen. Got a couple of ECU's off whiteley to give a try :)
 
F

f0xy

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

Not yet nope....different coilpack doesn't spark either...so im guessing the injectors are not firing...

Plugged it into Whiteleys and it just cranks over and over and over, exactly the same as on mine. Also connected it to Daz's 172 Cup (ph2) just to see if his OBD would connect, but it would not (unsure if pin data on ph2 ecu is different though!)...

Thing is now, I dont know weather its the emulator or the ECU itself!
 
F

f0xy

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

Just tried a few more things, although i'm getting incredibly bored with this now.

Firstly, My own ECU. Removed the emulator, ignition on and off a few times. Then re-fitted the emulator using two alternative pins for power and earth, just to make sure they were both good.

Emulator is receiving 12v, and outputting 2.36v...so unless the code that the emulator is providing has somehow become corrupt, or the ECU is just failing to accept it...who knows. Anyway, the car still didnt start, exactly the same.

As mentioned I collected two ECUs from Whiteley yesterday, which I knew probably wouldn't work with the emulator as they are not unlocked (not virginised). Anyway, I connected the emulator to them in turn, receiving 12v fine, outputting the same voltage as above. Still, the car failed to start.

The problem I have now is, I have no idea if its the ECU at fault (immobiliser code has become corrupt and wont match the emulator), or if its the emulator not outputting the correct voltage/data/whatever. I have no way of testing it. All I know is the emulator is outputting, and none of the 3 ECU's will run the car.

Lost for ideas of what to test or try now. If I don't get it sorted shortly im about to loose out on around £300's worth of tracktime at Oulton Park (13th & 17th), which wont be good at all.

Anyone got any ideas of what I could do to get the car running? Bearing in mind I cant get anywhere as I have no other car!
 
cliosportcraig

cliosportcraig

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

I'll try my emulated ecu on my mates ph1 172 and test the voltages! If needs be I can post you mine to borrow for your track days
 
F

f0xy

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

Did you get it from tek-tronics too mate? Or somewhere else? Cant remember if it was something you asked a while back

Edit. Also if you are testing it on a 172, make sure you snip pin 58 off your ECU so it cant make contact with the car in any way whatsoever....as if you get the signal from the cars UCH and from the emulator you could run into big problems. You'l never need Pin 58 on the outside if your emulator is internally..
 
Last edited:
cliosportcraig

cliosportcraig

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

DSCN0820.gif


it's Adams! Think it's from rstuning? The circuit board from pin 58 to the actual pin outs has been cut
 
F

f0xy

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

Ah cool, Adam as in Geesus yeah?

Thats been fitted the same as I did mine, with the immobiliser data line directly onto the circuit board. Yeah Ad had it done at RSTuning iirc.

Should be fine to try on a 172 then, could be a lifesaver if it runs fine!
 
cliosportcraig

cliosportcraig

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

Yeah Geesus, I'll try it asap for you, I'd like to know if it works aswell as adam had quite a few probs, hopefully it was the loom though, the ecu connector was dodgy to say the least, had to really jiggle the multimeter to get a continuity signal! Got another loom now though, oh and a Williams 2 shell for it to live in.

I'll report back mate
 
F

f0xy

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

Nice one. Yeah remember him saying the connector was dodgy, hopefully that was the case!

Cheers! :)
 
A

Andyrg@ ClioTurbo

  Trophy Turbo :)
Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

Whitleys looks a lot neater than that mind ;) PMSL


If i remember right the ECU gets Decoded and some how Linked with the Embu ..
 
F

f0xy

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

Andyrg said:
Whitleys looks a lot neater than that mind ;) PMSL


If i remember right the ECU gets Decoded and some how Linked with the Embu ..
Click to expand...

You decode the ECU, then fit the Emu. Then when you turn ignition on the Emu provides ECU with signal and all works happily
 
Mark One

Mark One

  ValverInBits
Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

hope you get this sorted before your track day mate. Must be really frustrating. It's such a shame it's not as easy as the F7* 'buy a ph1 ecu' job.
 
F

f0xy

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

Mark One said:
hope you get this sorted before your track day mate. Must be really frustrating. It's such a shame it's not as easy as the F7* 'buy a ph1 ecu' job.
Click to expand...

Aye, if only it was that simple :dapprove:

Just bought another emulator from the same place, as ive found out they all output the same signal to the ECU...so if my emulator has become faulty and I put the new one on there should not be any issue with it working...

But, if that does not work its the ECU I guess... Hopefully if willy lover tests the ECU he got off Geesus and it works, his generous offer of lending it for the Oulton's would save the day!
 
A

Andyrg@ ClioTurbo

  Trophy Turbo :)
Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

LOL :)

Only playing abt that ECU

sorry Adam Love you loads!!!! LOL


Chris your ecu was done at the link i posted abt 5 mins from my house hes called Dave
 
F

f0xy

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

Just been on a four hour round trip with Wallace Travel Services to pick up Willy Lovers ECU, BIG Thanks for lending it me to try.

Not tried it yet as only just got back, will update with the verdict in the morning :)
 
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