More Issues with dodgy maps!

[Russ_16v]

Surely that could be the other way around too? Plenty of unhappy customers who are not on the forum for any company?

I think the main issue is 3 different mappers have now meantioned the same faults with some of Ktecs maps - now this isn't school, I am sure these mappers are not 'ganging up' on ktec here - I can only imagine it is to highlight an issue with how some of their cars are mapped - ignoring everyones personal opinions on the company, if 3 different mappers have highlighted the same issue and pointed out seperately from each other the same way to rectify the fault, surely this is highlighting a problem?

 

[john182rs]

Surely that could be the other way around too? Plenty of unhappy customers who are not on the forum for any company?

I think the main issue is 3 different mappers have now meantioned the same faults with some of Ktecs maps - now this isn't school, I am sure these mappers are not 'ganging up' on ktec here - I can only imagine it is to highlight an issue with how some of their cars are mapped - ignoring everyones personal opinions on the company, if 3 different mappers have highlighted the same issue and pointed out seperately from each other the same way to rectify the fault, surely this is highlighting a problem?

IF each of them didnt know one another than I would aggree with this, yet we all know that Paul is friends with all the others and the others have all had time at his unit or RR at some point, met up for a drink or gone to a show of some kind to meet up.

It would all start with person one calling person two and saying, can you check this map as i think its wrong, person two could or might not have checked with person three.... theres ya link in theroy..

 

[Chip-mk1]

And before anyone picks at the percentage of reviews that certain companies get on here. What happens if only the good percentage of mapping from RST and others only come on here when there could be a considerable amount more that dont come on here to moan that have had bad maps?? This forum really is small minded at times.

Its not about percentages etc, I havent ever seen any evidence of Paul actually sending maps out that are dangerous, and I havent got experience of Paul demonstrating he hasnt a clue what has actually happened to cause a map to change like Ktec with all that trim table nonsense that they posted in Ellens thread and said to Mike and Ellen in person.

IMHO Paul understands properly how these ECU's work, Ktec dont, it really is that simple.

 

[Russ_16v]

IF each of them didnt know one another than I would aggree with this, yet we all know that Paul is friends with all the others and the others have all had time at his unit or RR at some point, met up for a drink or gone to a show of some kind to meet up.

It would all start with person one calling person two and saying, can you check this map as i think its wrong, person two could or might not have checked with person three.... theres ya link in theroy..

But surely regardless if they are very good friends or only know each other via a forum, if there was an issue with a product, they would not agree with one another just because they knew one another, but more than they can all see there is a genuine issue? I am sure if say Paul disagreed with the AFR's on a mapping job Chip did for example, he would voice his opinion rather than agreeing with him just because they know each other? I am damn sure I would do the same, even if my best mate thinks there was no issue - there is no way i'd agree just because he is a mate

All in speculation of course

 

[Chip-mk1]

Surely that could be the other way around too? Plenty of unhappy customers who are not on the forum for any company?

I think the main issue is 3 different mappers have now meantioned the same faults with some of Ktecs maps - now this isn't school, I am sure these mappers are not 'ganging up' on ktec here - I can only imagine it is to highlight an issue with how some of their cars are mapped - ignoring everyones personal opinions on the company, if 3 different mappers have highlighted the same issue and pointed out seperately from each other the same way to rectify the fault, surely this is highlighting a problem?

Im not sure anyone has actually told Ktec how to rectify "the fault" as its not just one fault, everything they do that I have seen (which I admit is only a subset of course, maybe they have multiple employees and its only one of them that is a clueless chance and being let loose on customer engines) as just been full of silly schoolboy errors that just smack of someone who simply doesnt know what they are doing properly.

By contrast the worst map I know of from RS Tuning was an RS2 car that he appeared to have rushed through as the customer was in and out in about half an hour and Mike from MWM ended up finding about 10bhp more from it, but the difference there is that map was just simply not quite finished properly, Paul IMHO either ran out of time or ran out of "can be bothered" that day and didnt get every last bhp from it as a result, which realistically happens to us all on occasion. But the map he did was still perfectly safe and was not full of schoolboy errors, but thats totally different to sending a job out the door when you just dont actually understand what is wrong with it and even when it comes back you either still dont know what went wrong or blatantly lie to the customer about it.

When you do these maps you start with a footballer map, and you work from there, Ktec however seem to just try and jump straight to the finished product without developing it properly and miss a load of important steps along the way if they are sending maps out the door that are either way too lean on full throttle when they leave, or so over advanced that they knock. That just shouldnt ever happen, when im halfway through mapping a car it doesnt make its full potential yet of course, likewise if I had to try and rush a job it wouldnt, but in either case it will still be safe for the engine through the whole process, and I would wager the same with Paul too as he clearly does actually know what he is doing.
Customer cars missing a few bhp here and there is unfortunate but one of those things, everyone is human so wont always get the perfect result every day, but customer cars running 15s on full throttle or knocking their tits off is just totally unforgivable.

 

[Chip-mk1]

But surely regardless if they are very good friends or only know each other via a forum, if there was an issue with a product, they would not agree with one another just because they knew one another, but more than they can all see there is a genuine issue? I am sure if say Paul disagreed with the AFR's on a mapping job Chip did for example, he would voice his opinion rather than agreeing with him just because they know each other? I am damn sure I would do the same, even if my best mate thinks there was no issue - there is no way i'd agree just because he is a mate

All in speculation of course

Me and Paul dont know each other very well at all mate TBH, only ever spoke to him online other than very briefly at the odd event, so I have utterly no reason to be nice about him and nasty about Ktec other than he seems to turn out jobs that are always safe, and normally very very good, where as Ktec seem to be churning out some dangerous maps that are damaging people's engines, but like you say, even if someone like Mike who I do know well was to try and say it was acceptable a customer car was running 15s on full throttle I would of course disagree with him.

 

[Chip-mk1]

its amazing how I have no idea how to understand what that image is saying! Is that how you design maps? i.e. I always thought it was done directly in the in code by changing the parameters?

Some people map on a graphical screen, others do it in a table, I think probably most people do a bit of both.
Personally I prefer to mainly use the table of numbers as I have a bit of a nerdy ability to spot patterns in numbers, but even so I do also use graphical views sometimes as well still.

 

[Dan@SJM]

Im not sure anyone has actually told Ktec how to rectify "the fault"

I can. A new mapper.

 

[Cup_Phil]

Wow... I started off by saying RST had poor marketing skills using facebook to **** another tuner off... but K-Tec just took it to a new level lol

Considering they are claiming 191bhp from an exhaust, filter and remap - which isn't much less than they're £2.5k ITB kit produces (which incidentally I'm running - from K-Tec)
Seems a bit weird to basically be saying there remaps are so good there's no point in buying cams or bodies from them

IMO they're pushing the one service they are clearly very poor at. It really does look like the facebook page is run by their mapper.

 

[Nick172Cup]

So like I said on Pauls facebook page, why not all of the so called mappers, get together for one day at ktec and show how they would live map a car? You might learn some thing but you might also improve some one aswell??

LOL.

So you're asking all the fully trained and caring engine calibrators who 'get by' in this business, to help teach a mapper who works for a company that turns over easily several million pounds a year?

Pull the other one.

And like has already been said, its not through incompetence either these calibration issues, Andy Cuttler can map when he's been told to actually map a car again.

So it begs to differ, whether its Andy Cuttler that doesn't care much for his quality of workmanship in calibrating cars, or is it David, the owner of K-Tec that's setting ex amount of work to be covered per day, which is turn affects quality because he can't get that amount of work done.

 

[Jeffie]

A custom map should always be safe, all the time. It shouldn't detonate with the ECU running corrections ever (given the fuel etc is OK, of course). None of this 'only xx% complaints' bullshit. You get paid the $$, get it right and dont put someones engine at risk.

 

[Pedro19]

Some people map on a graphical screen, others do it in a table, I think probably most people do a bit of both.
Personally I prefer to mainly use the table of numbers as I have a bit of a nerdy ability to spot patterns in numbers, but even so I do also use graphical views sometimes as well still.

Sounds like me Chip, probably comes down to my OCD and attention to detail, always fun fine-tuning it in 2D/3D though.

Think I've been developing my file for about 6 months now lol, on and off ofcourse. Oh and to Ktecs response about Ellens car and the ECU using trim tables, the amount of times Ive had the file imported and exported or read and written to my car, not once has it changed on its own accord, even cars I've mapped last year in September and the customer now wants EGR removal, the file always comes back as 100%

 

[Vish]

So like I said on Pauls facebook page, why not all of the so called mappers, get together for one day at ktec and show how they would live map a car? You might learn some thing but you might also improve some one aswell??

I think that's one of the most retarded things ever said on CS. Why the hell would anyone show a competitor how to do something properly? This is a business, they provide a service and this contributes towards their income. Why show someone how to do something so they can take income from them? If KTec provide a poor service they should improve themselves not have a charity day for competitors to show them how it's done.

 

[Silent_Scone]

This post brought to you with a MASSIVE AMOUNT OF IRONY lol

Maybe K-Tec are too busy supporting their international race teams

I've not had any real problem with TDF, but i know people have, not disputing that. Maybe you should look up the definition of irony.

Besides least Matt is qualified. That's always a start isn't it.

 

[yeecup]

yeah they just posted on facebook again with yet another 190bhp clio 182 with just exhaust, ktec i/k and one of their "maps" so basically 438's are pointless

 

[Cup_Phil]

Ok more contradicting than irony - defend one company for delivering crap, slate another for the same thing

Not really sure what you constitute as qualified either - there's hardly an "official mapper" certificate - they're both self taught

 

[Rich_172]

Wow... I started off by saying RST had poor marketing skills using facebook to **** another tuner off... but K-Tec just took it to a new level lol

Considering they are claiming 191bhp from an exhaust, filter and remap - which isn't much less than they're £2.5k ITB kit produces (which incidentally I'm running - from K-Tec)
Seems a bit weird to basically be saying there remaps are so good there's no point in buying cams or bodies from them

IMO they're pushing the one service they are clearly very poor at. It really does look like the facebook page is run by their mapper.

So my car is now around 190bhp with my home made k-tec induction kit on. Excellent. Thats nearly 15bhp more than when paul mapped it on the standard airbox

 

[Cup_Phil]

I honestly must have pissed about £4k into the wind - I could have just fitted an air filter an RSTuner map - jobs a good un! LOL

 

[Dan@SJM]

Ok more contradicting than irony - defend one company for delivering crap, slate another for the same thing

Not really sure what you constitute as qualified either - there's hardly an "official mapper" certificate - they're both self taught

There is actually an engine ecu calibration qualification....

 

[Saner]

Ok more contradicting than irony - defend one company for delivering crap, slate another for the same thing

Not really sure what you constitute as qualified either - there's hardly an "official mapper" certificate - they're both self taught

There are a number of different certificate you can get as a mapper.

 

[Cup_Phil]

There is actually an engine ecu calibration qualification....

Dear god!


In other news - I have defended K-Tec up to this point, but being spoken down to.... I'm out!

 

[Dan@SJM]

Lets see what the reply is...

 

[Michael Woodford MST]

I wonder if Gen90 has these adaptions that change the map about at WOT

 

[Chip-mk1]

I wonder if Gen90 has these adaptions that change the map about at WOT

Lol

 

[Pedro19]

I wonder if Gen90 has these adaptions that change the map about at WOT

:lol:

 

[mitch1503]

LOL.

So you're asking all the fully trained and caring engine calibrators who 'get by' in this business, to help teach a mapper who works for a company that turns over easily several million pounds a year?

Pull the other one.

And like has already been said, its not through incompetence either these calibration issues, Andy Cuttler can map when he's been told to actually map a car again.

So it begs to differ, whether its Andy Cuttler that doesn't care much for his quality of workmanship in calibrating cars, or is it David, the owner of K-Tec that's setting ex amount of work to be covered per day, which is turn affects quality because he can't get that amount of work done.

no one ever seems to think about the pressure and time restraints that could be getting put on Andy, people always just accuse Andy at fault straight away not the fact that the OWNER/BOSS is making him push cars through quickly as its indeed David that would benefit from getting more cars mapped per day than Andy would

 

[Michael Woodford MST]

no one ever seems to think about the pressure and time restraints that could be getting put on Andy, people always just accuse Andy at fault straight away not the fact that the OWNER/BOSS is making him push cars through quickly as its indeed David that would benefit from getting more cars mapped per day than Andy would

Incorrect. That's been mentioned a couple of times in this thread! But he does himself no favours when he knew full well who I was, and still proceeded to feed me an Ellen utter waffle about the adaptions changing his map!

 

[Fred@BTM]

 

[mitch1503]

Incorrect. That's been mentioned a couple of times in this thread! But he does himself no favours when he knew full well who I was, and still proceeded to feed me an Ellen utter waffle about the adaptions changing his map!

yes and if you look i was saying it to basically what Nick had said, i have never dealt with K-tec so can't say i favor them as i have been to pauls for power runs in the past