New Clio 182 Series - 750 Motor Club

[Djw John]

How much can you cheat with a standard ecu on a plenum though? Only small gains.

You could make the inlets swappable. If someone comes up to you and they run a ph1 and you're running a ph1 they're allowed to say I want to swap inlets with you and you have to. Works well in other series. Headwork is harder to regulate I guess but I'm sure there's ways to keep the playing field level with regards to cams etc.

Super lap Scotland break their classes up by power to weight and only allow certain rolling roads and weighbridges to be used otherwise the result is invalid. That could help negate cams or the like.

 

[p@blo]

Was thinking more along the lines of intentional rule bending John - headwork/cam profile/advance/ fuel grade?

Agree its by no means the only way of attempting to police it, but theres surely logic to being able to quickly swap out an ecu to resolve any doubts of deliberate tampering should someone have strayed a little 'too far' from benchline spec?

Bit of an aside, but how are they enforcing engine spec in the Michelin Cup? Are they sealed units same as the main series?

 

[Fred@BTM]

it really doesn't matter, a 10bhp difference will be outweighed by driver skill anyway, should've left the cars with stock ecu's that way it doesn't matter what you do it'll never be Thrust SSC

 

[Chris n nic]

I think another problem is the massive variation between std engines. Get a 'good un' and you will a fair bit faster....obviously driver skill makes a difference but get a good driver in a good car and you'll probably have someone winning by a fair bit

 

[JaredHasNoBrain]

Seems like a good idea, but why limit it to 182's? 172's are just as fast.

This.

 

[p@blo]

Seems like a good idea, but why limit it to 182's? 172's are just as fast.

This.

From the other thread:

We have spent some considerable time evaluating the Clio's and the variants, 172, 172 cup, trophy, 182, sport, trophy, 182 cup all of which have variations that affect performance and comfort. We could of chosen the 172, but then there are so many 'improvements' up to the 182 cup that could be shall we say quietly added [cheating] that would totally compramise policing and the future championship, ending up the same way as current Class A stock hatch, loads of money with mix and match.We have used a Renault specialist to go through the model types components, plus seeked tuning specialists knowledge of the add ons and common upgrades to determine the 182 cup choice, its not been a guess.

So chose the top best performance Clio, its also the most up to date and has the clean CB22 model type with no variations across its build period. Nothing on a 172 etc will improve its performance and there plenty about at a reasonable cost [£1000-3000], this includes factory built and dealer option upgrades, hence variances in colours.

The 172 is not the same car as a 182 cup, there are some major differences as follows:

Rear body/chassis-172 has a spare wheel well, the 182 cup does not have this.
182 cup has twin exhaust at the rear, 172 does not.
182 cup has a different rear beam axle to the 172.
182 cup has different exhaust and inlet manifolds to 172.
182 cup has a different cylinder head to the 172.
182 cup has different front hub carriers, driveshafts, lower wishbone than the 172.
The gearbox ratios are different.
The wheels are different.
The air filter housing differs.
Front splitters and rear boot wing differ.
The list goes on in other areas not associated with racing.

Its not as simple as 10bhp and ABS, the cars are totally different.

The 172 does have changes in parts over its life/build period, cylinder head being one, plus big changes in panels when going to a 172 cup, a minefield to right rules for.

So its not simple to right regulations to cover so much variance across car types and build periods [as seen with the saxo for example] and police it all in a 1-3 hour slot on a Sunday.

I do hope this does clearly explain why we at the begining have decided upon the 182 cup and not any other car type or variant.

Do note I also have a 172 sport, but must agree that the 182 cup is the only choice at present.

regards

Bill Gregory.

:S

 

[sbridgey]

That clearly explains why my 172 was consistently able to out run every 182 it came up to on track... :S

 

[GW200]

That clearly explains why my 172 was consistently able to out run every 182 it came up to on track... :S

Down to driver perhaps?

 

[sbridgey]

Down to driver perhaps?

​Point proven!

 

[Cooksport]

So if I put 172 Cup windows into a 182... how would you know?

I'm sorry but the engines could be all identical.... how about I just ensure my gearbox is pristine etc ensuring I have less transmission losses than everyone else?

I would 100% allow 172/182... they need grids numbers.... if anything they should have allowed any cars in... then used the results to determine the fairest way if policing the championship.

The different between a 172 and a 182 is not prominent enough to require one or the other to be excluded.

Even with all these regulations, look at the two cars in the picture in the initial post.... one has a splitter, the other doesn't... if we have to run genuine splitters... £140+ each time? Costs already on the up... The white car has an oil cooler, that's not standard or needed IMO either.. more cost.

The idea is a good one, but I would be impressed if it actually works and you get large grids.

(edit - the window comment is an example, they may be the same weight in both cups, I just know for a fact that some people on this forum will know their way around a mk2 clio better than any of the scrutineers will)

 

[MartinR]

That clearly explains why my 172 was consistently able to out run every 182 it came up to on track... :S

Every other driver did not have the balls to brake so late

 

[Dan@SJM]

From the other thread:


"That b****cks"
:S

LOL at the supposed difference in the air filter housings. REALLY.???

Wishbones are the same as later 172's

Please explain the change in panels between a 172 and a 172 cup?

 

[sbridgey]

The only panel difference I have noticed between the 172 and 182 is the way the front bumper fixes to the car.

 

[Sam@NP]

I have a lot of respect for the 750MC and have competed in various rounds of various series with them. Great club great meetings.

However I think there a few glaringly obvious factors that are being over looked with the regs, I can understand why a ph1 172 would be excluded (different exhaust ports and cable throttle) a ph2 though has 182 cylinder head, add RS inlet sub £150 as is a 182 manifold. So in essence that becomes a 182 engine, no?

The saving on buying a set of 15 inch tyres over a 16 inch set is a race entry nearly. Sealed ECUs and one suspension supplier, gratuitous profiteering on a budget championship. Not very 750MC if you ask me or have I miss understood what the club is about?

im all up for the championship as more modern and moved on version of Stock Hatch, the cobblers about a 182 cup being the best is silly, poor consultation seems to be the reason for it. I wish all the luck to 750 and I shall be watching closely they have had great success with stock hatch and MR2s and I believe that it could be replicated much sooner and cheaper by allowing a few regulation tweaks with these Clio.

 

[p@blo]

The different between a 172 and a 182 is not prominent enough to require one or the other to be excluded.

You would have thought so.

 

[Cooksport]

I have a lot of respect for the 750MC and have competed in various rounds of various series with them. Great club great meetings.

However I think there a few glaringly obvious factors that are being over looked with the regs, I can understand why a ph1 172 would be excluded (different exhaust ports and cable throttle) a ph2 though has 182 cylinder head, add RS inlet sub £150 as is a 182 manifold. So in essence that becomes a 182 engine, no?

The saving on buying a set of 15 inch tyres over a 16 inch set is a race entry nearly. Sealed ECUs and one suspension supplier, gratuitous profiteering on a budget championship. Not very 750MC if you ask me or have I miss understood what the club is about?

im all up for the championship as more modern and moved on version of Stock Hatch, the cobblers about a 182 cup being the best is silly, poor consultation seems to be the reason for it. I wish all the luck to 750 and I shall be watching closely they have had great success with stock hatch and MR2s and I believe that it could be replicated much sooner and cheaper by allowing a few regulation tweaks with these Clio.

Completely agree with the comments about the 750MC after all, its where my driving career started! Saxmax and then Stock hatch!

The idea of having a load of Mk2 Clios in a race series is awesome, its just the regulations need to be looked at very quickly.... they must also listen to the opinions of this forum's members as ultimately a think a large number of the championships competitors could come from here!

 

[sbridgey]

Completely agree with the comments about the 750MC after all, its where my driving career started! Saxmax and then Stock hatch!

The idea of having a load of Mk2 Clios in a race series is awesome, its just the regulations need to be looked at very quickly.... they must also listen to the opinions of this forum's members as ultimately a think a large number of the championships competitors could come from here!

Couldn't agree more.

 

[Adam G]

I really don't think I would worry, if I was in a 172 and a 182 was lined up next to me on the grid. It's supposed to be an entry level championship so fun being the predominant factor. I'd only throw my toys out, if the 182 was cammed and ITB'd. The difference between engines is as good as nothing. There's probably standard 172s kicking out more than standard 182s.

 

[Tony Hunter]

When we spoke to 750mc at the Autosport show in Jan, they didn't really seem to know what they were on about. I think they had been misguided by outside agents as to what was required.

Insisting on 182 Cups for a start, this is a no goer, and does that suspension fit a cup hub??

Keeping 16" wheels is silly, as said above, the tyres are so much more expensive.

I wish you luck with this, but I think I will stick with the French Trophy series run by Track Attack.

​Plus we don't have to go to one supplier for suspension or an ECU.

 

[Djw John]

It does seem to be a case of a good idea followed by going to 1 source of information who happen to be the only ones able to supply everything that is required in the rules. Shame. With more leeway the grids would be full. Which can only be a good thing.

 

[Tony Hunter]

When is the race at Silverstone? can I enter as an invitation car and see what the difference is.

 

[Sam@NP]

When we spoke to 750mc at the Autosport show in Jan, they didn't really seem to know what they were on about. I think they had been misguided by outside agents as to what was required.

Insisting on 182 Cups for a start, this is a no goer, and does that suspension fit a cup hub??

Keeping 16" wheels is silly, as said above, the tyres are so much more expensive.

I wish you luck with this, but I think I will stick with the French Trophy series run by Track Attack.

​Plus we don't have to go to one supplier for suspension or an ECU.

What do you know about racing clios?

​pfft

 

[Cooksport]

What do you know about racing clios?

​pfft

Lol! Let me out there in my 172 cup aswell, I will bolt some sort of cage in it. Game on!

 

[Tony Hunter]

What do you know about racing clios?

​pfft

​Errr, actually......

 

[Fred@BTM]

I'd happily throw together a 100% STANDARD car with just the saftey stuff, now that'd be interesting

 

[Adam G]

I'd happily throw together a 100% STANDARD car with just the saftey stuff, now that'd be interesting

Hi!

 

[Tony Hunter]

It's just wrong. Needs a rethink.

 

[Cooksport]

I'd happily throw together a 100% STANDARD car with just the saftey stuff, now that'd be interesting

Make it a 172 Phase 2!

 

[sbridgey]

Hi!

Yours isn't standard. Mine on the other hand....

 

[Fred@BTM]

I reckon all clio championship - only rule is the engine must be 100% stock - the rest is free

williams
172
182

or you can have

standard class - standard engine
moddified class - played with engine

wheels/tyres - free (no slicks/wets)
exhaust - free
ecu - free
brakes - must use OE calipers - free discs/pads
suspension - free

etc etc

 

[Adam G]

Yours isn't standard. Mine on the other hand....

Not far off! Anyway, you'd need pitstops for pad changes.

 

[Tony Hunter]

I reckon all clio championship - only rule is the engine must be 100% stock - the rest is free

williams
172
182

or you can have

standard class - standard engine
moddified class - played with engine

wheels/tyres - free (no slicks/wets)
exhaust - free
ecu - free
brakes - must use OE calipers - free discs/pads
suspension - free

etc etc

​Sounds like FRENCH TROPHY then. (Mallory this Sat)

 

[Fred@BTM]

ta dar!

 

[plymcl172]

Yes you HAVE to run on ktec coilovers and HAVE to use there fixed ECU at a price of £850 + vat...

what about running with no windscreen boarder saying K Tec lol ?

 

[Cooksport]

Gearbox stock too, or some clever b*****d will just get a sequential box in a standard casing like a bloke in VW Cup has done lol!

 

[Tony Hunter]

Or is it the 'new' Nitron Ktec suspension ?

 

[Sam@NP]

Gearbox stock too, or some clever b*****d will just get a sequential box in a standard casing like a bloke in VW Cup has done lol!

Brilliant.

 

[Rob]

I'd rather s**t in my hands and clap. It sounds like the racing equivalent of selling your soul to the devil.

Also, KTEC racing maps, actual LOL!

"Here, come and race, using a company who's mapping has destroyed countless engines. Don't worry though kids, KTEC will rebuild for £10,999 plus VAT"

It should be more along the lines of

Any Mk2 Renaultsport

Standard suspension, or coilovers (maybe with a max RRP)

Any exhaust

15" wheels (for costs) (widths and tyre size could be fixed)

Any discs and pads with standard calipers and no brackets for larger discs etc

Standard transmission

IDK on management tbh

 

[sbridgey]

Not far off! Anyway, you'd need pitstops for pad changes.

Oi! It's not that bad.

 

[p@blo]

Gearbox stock too, or some clever b*****d will just get a sequential box in a standard casing like a bloke in VW Cup has done lol!

Crafty.

Wouldn't the ST-SDA/ST75 technically be stock boxes?