182cup & 172 racecar
Two wotds.
Stuff that !!!
Stuff that !!!
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Surely the accusing should cover the bill if the engine is standard, if however they have been cheating the cheater should pay and a fine blah blah blah.
If not surely you could just go accusing people with no penalty? Costing other people money out of potential jealousy?
If not surely you could just go accusing people with no penalty? Costing other people money out of potential jealousy?
Just going to leave this here, again.
LYV6, 182, R5GTT
French Trophy Series
If the boot was on the other foot....
Hypothetically speaking, if there was an abnormally quick car in a production class (im not exactly sure what your regs are like)in your series and I'm not just talking round corners (because that can be down to driver), I'm talking about straight line speeds as well as grunt out of corners (yes I know it's about taking the right apex to give a good exit speed out if the corner). But you get what I mean, if there was a car that didn't seem like it was playing by the rules...
People would get fed up, and get pi**ed off, it's only natural. What would happen then? Competitors wouldn't just go a long with it now would they, this is racing and people want to win!!!
What I'm asking is how would the French Trophy Series deal with this?
If the boot was on the other foot....
Hypothetically speaking, if there was an abnormally quick car in a production class (im not exactly sure what your regs are like)in your series and I'm not just talking round corners (because that can be down to driver), I'm talking about straight line speeds as well as grunt out of corners (yes I know it's about taking the right apex to give a good exit speed out if the corner). But you get what I mean, if there was a car that didn't seem like it was playing by the rules...
People would get fed up, and get pi**ed off, it's only natural. What would happen then? Competitors wouldn't just go a long with it now would they, this is racing and people want to win!!!
What I'm asking is how would the French Trophy Series deal with this?
I just checked the TARC regs for the MR2 std series and it goes like this:
Protestor pays 300. If legal 250 goes to the accused to rebuild, if illegal 250 goes back to the protestor.
So I guess it would be similar.
When I raced in the grass track std mini class I never heard of another competitor having an engine strip. I don't think it happens very often in club racing.
Protestor pays 300. If legal 250 goes to the accused to rebuild, if illegal 250 goes back to the protestor.
So I guess it would be similar.
When I raced in the grass track std mini class I never heard of another competitor having an engine strip. I don't think it happens very often in club racing.
Sounds familiar.
Tbh why don't ktec supply a crate engine that's been wire sealed and make it regulation that you have to buy and run this said engine?
WRX
1. They'd want to charge a lot for it.
2. Bang! Oh dear those KTEC lumps aren't very good are they?
WRX
"Ah well, he's bleedin quick. Never mind I'll just try and beat the others."
LYV6, 182, R5GTT
Sorry mate, I don't buy this.
They charge alot for the ecu and suspension but people are still buying into the race series. If its regulation, people have to do it.
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182cup & 172 racecar
Please don't let this turn into another Ktec war of words.
WRX
Well that will be my attitude. To look at winning is more expensive than just in it to enjoy it. If I really had the attitude of wanting to win, then I'd be looking at buying the best car I could, complete engine and gearbox rebuild and replace every suspension part etc. I am using the one I have and that's it. If me and the car as a package don't win, so be it as long as I have fun. A bit of success is a bonus. IMO that's the outlook that I have to have to keep the budget down.
LYV6, 182, R5GTT
Fair enough, everyone looks at things differently I guess
WRX
I'd like to think that maybe there'll be hopefully 6-8 of us and then that maybe split into two groups of ability and we'll have a few nice little battles. I'd be happy with that, a bit like the F1 - Red Bull, Ferrari, Mercedes in one group, Lotus, Mclaren, Force India etc in another and the usual suspects at the back.
Lets put the record straight other drivers and cant get the club to strip engines this doesnt happen ( you cant pay to get the club to stip other cars ) !
During the year the club will check certain things to make sure the car is legal i.e
data logging
wheel base
removal of inlets to check internals
camera interal inspection
etc etc
all of these are easy done and do not cause any cost to driver so dont worry !
if say a driver cant do it them self, then there is allways some one around to help !
The only time you would have an engine stripped is after the race year and you are say in the top 3 ( but only ever seen this happen 2 or three times ) !
hope this helps.
During the year the club will check certain things to make sure the car is legal i.e
data logging
wheel base
removal of inlets to check internals
camera interal inspection
etc etc
all of these are easy done and do not cause any cost to driver so dont worry !
if say a driver cant do it them self, then there is allways some one around to help !
The only time you would have an engine stripped is after the race year and you are say in the top 3 ( but only ever seen this happen 2 or three times ) !
hope this helps.
Can you still get brand new f4rs for the 1*2?
Yes. Eu regs says you have to be able to buy any part for 10 years.
182cup & 172 racecar
I think this has lost it's way a little.
182cup & 172 racecar
And it will probably need a belt change.
M3,Clio Cup X85
I have read the thread on this topic with interest, and it does some what deviate,
Some points are valid but there are commercial interests in racing, ask Bernie Ecclestone and also behind the K-tec parts. Without going into great depth, and unless you are Mr K-tec, they would have brought the rights for these parts to be used in the race series. It goes on in just about every motor racing series going, that is how it works. All of you that work, go to work to earn an income, as does a company seek a source of income.
No one is forcing anyone to go and race in this series, so unless you really are going to turn up on the grid, then what is the point of going on about it, that I don't understand!
Lets face it, 98% of people that say they will race their car wont even go to watch, let alone race!
Someone has taken the onus to put a race series together, they decided it will be for 182's and it will run pretty much standard parts, all be it safety parts to be included, and keep the cost down. If this series is not for your car, then approach 750mc and ask them to look at a series for your car or someone else to organise a series.
Motor sport is not cheap whatever way you look at it, and this is what this is, motor racing!
I race in the Michelin Clio cup, that's expensive for club racing, but its my choice. My nephew wants to race in that championship next year, but its to expensive for us to run 2 cars, so we are looking at running him in this series. Yes, we would have preferred the choice of suspension and a standard ECU, but that is what this championship will run, so that's what we will have to run.
Talk is cheap, racing is not! :rasp:
Some points are valid but there are commercial interests in racing, ask Bernie Ecclestone and also behind the K-tec parts. Without going into great depth, and unless you are Mr K-tec, they would have brought the rights for these parts to be used in the race series. It goes on in just about every motor racing series going, that is how it works. All of you that work, go to work to earn an income, as does a company seek a source of income.
No one is forcing anyone to go and race in this series, so unless you really are going to turn up on the grid, then what is the point of going on about it, that I don't understand!
Lets face it, 98% of people that say they will race their car wont even go to watch, let alone race!
Someone has taken the onus to put a race series together, they decided it will be for 182's and it will run pretty much standard parts, all be it safety parts to be included, and keep the cost down. If this series is not for your car, then approach 750mc and ask them to look at a series for your car or someone else to organise a series.
Motor sport is not cheap whatever way you look at it, and this is what this is, motor racing!
I race in the Michelin Clio cup, that's expensive for club racing, but its my choice. My nephew wants to race in that championship next year, but its to expensive for us to run 2 cars, so we are looking at running him in this series. Yes, we would have preferred the choice of suspension and a standard ECU, but that is what this championship will run, so that's what we will have to run.
Talk is cheap, racing is not! :rasp:
182cup & 172 racecar
Not quite sure what you are getting at here.
I race a Clio in the French Trophy series, so don't have to use any of the above mentioned bit's from Ktec. ( and you can run a standard ecu if you want)
We are running a production series as well, for very basic mods. That would be cheap, you could come and do that with us.
Or are you one of the 98%
I race a Clio in the French Trophy series, so don't have to use any of the above mentioned bit's from Ktec. ( and you can run a standard ecu if you want)
We are running a production series as well, for very basic mods. That would be cheap, you could come and do that with us.
Or are you one of the 98%
M3,Clio Cup X85
What I'm getting at here, is that their is a lot of hot air.
Most will not even go to watch this race series, let alone race in it, but yet are complaining about a race series that has been put together.
If you read what I put, you will see that I already race, and that we are putting my nephew in this race series, so I guess that means that I am not in the 98%.
Most will not even go to watch this race series, let alone race in it, but yet are complaining about a race series that has been put together.
If you read what I put, you will see that I already race, and that we are putting my nephew in this race series, so I guess that means that I am not in the 98%.
182cup & 172 racecar
There is a lot of history with Ktec and some members on here, I think this is where the problem and discussion has started from.
Some also think that, 750mc have been slightly misguided by certain involved parties.
Hope your Nephew does well.
Oh, and I did read what you put..
Some also think that, 750mc have been slightly misguided by certain involved parties.
Hope your Nephew does well.
Oh, and I did read what you put..
M3,Clio Cup X85
I kind of guessed that K-tec does not sit well with some members.
But they have secured the rights to supply the parts as stated in the rules, that's the bottom line.
But they have secured the rights to supply the parts as stated in the rules, that's the bottom line.
182cup & 172 racecar
Lets hope it all goes well then.
I think the initial discussion started when the 750mc were banging on about how cheap it was. When with over priced ktec shite on there it's added over £2k to the initial race costs.
M3,Clio Cup X85
I believe that this will be a cheap form of motorsport in a very competitive car, the Clio is a fantastic car! The headline states racing for £5k, I think it will be more around the £6-£6.5k, but that is still cheap in motorsport terms.
Kart racing in Rotax will cost you £5k+ with a rolling chassis and 2 engines and that's all second hand. I have said before, motor racing is not cheap, whatever formula you do, but this is still cheap. If you don't believe me then wander round the paddock at any decent club level meeting and see what is being spent.
I would imagine that K-Tec have invested in this championship and their return is that they will supply the suspension and ECU, yes, I would rather use the original ECU and different suspension, but it is what it is.
What I hope is that everyone that has commented on how expensive this series will be and how bad K-Tec are, that they will be on the grid as they seem so wound up over the cost and its bothering them so much to get their car out on the grid.
Kart racing in Rotax will cost you £5k+ with a rolling chassis and 2 engines and that's all second hand. I have said before, motor racing is not cheap, whatever formula you do, but this is still cheap. If you don't believe me then wander round the paddock at any decent club level meeting and see what is being spent.
I would imagine that K-Tec have invested in this championship and their return is that they will supply the suspension and ECU, yes, I would rather use the original ECU and different suspension, but it is what it is.
What I hope is that everyone that has commented on how expensive this series will be and how bad K-Tec are, that they will be on the grid as they seem so wound up over the cost and its bothering them so much to get their car out on the grid.
That's why tony is helping sort a cheaper non ktec biased race series. From initial interest I believe the grid will be more populated than the 750mc one.
I looked at this series when it first came round. I then realised first of all that it was only for Cup-packed 182's and 16' wheels had to be used. After them two big flaws in setting a series up they want you to buy control parts from a company I wouldn't trust to cut my own toenails quite frankly.
So where am I now? I've helped Tony Hunter with setting up regs for a production series in the French Trophy for the Track Attack Race Club, where the regs are tight enough still to make it very close competitive racing.
My car from start to nearly all put together (got all the parts sat here with 2 sets of wheels and tyres) has cost me under £2,500, under half what its cost to build a car for the 750MC Clio Series.
That to me is the cheap way into Motorsport....
Nick
WRX
Haven't we covered all of this before in this thread?
In a nutshell:
750 MC = reasonably cheap to get on grid and have reasonably tight restrictions, albeit maybe not the best choice of parts.
TARC = far cheaper to get on grid and might be a slight variance in cars' performance = gamble you take that will hopefully be levelled by driver skill. What the hell, hopefully they'll be others with a similar overall package to me.
In a nutshell:
750 MC = reasonably cheap to get on grid and have reasonably tight restrictions, albeit maybe not the best choice of parts.
TARC = far cheaper to get on grid and might be a slight variance in cars' performance = gamble you take that will hopefully be levelled by driver skill. What the hell, hopefully they'll be others with a similar overall package to me.
M3,Clio Cup X85
Adam, I have been racing long enough to know that if the regs are not tight enough to control the cars, then someone will take full advantage of that and will build there car that will simply be faster by nature.
I don't know, but you are indicating that the TARC regs are such that "there might be a slight variance in cars' performance", so you are not going out on track with all the cars on a level playing field, seems a bit unfair to me..
Nick said that the 750mc series is flawed with only allowing 182's and 16" rims, as far as I am aware the series is for 182's only, I might be mistaken....
Their are lots of different championships to race all sorts of cars in, I came here looking for information on the 182 series because that is what I am looking for my nephew but I seem to have found a lot of anger towards K-tec and the 750mc 182 series. Chaps, don't let that get in the way of getting out on track and race. Find another series to race in apart from the 750mc, like the French Trophy for the Track Attack Race Club. :rasp:
I don't know, but you are indicating that the TARC regs are such that "there might be a slight variance in cars' performance", so you are not going out on track with all the cars on a level playing field, seems a bit unfair to me..
Nick said that the 750mc series is flawed with only allowing 182's and 16" rims, as far as I am aware the series is for 182's only, I might be mistaken....
Their are lots of different championships to race all sorts of cars in, I came here looking for information on the 182 series because that is what I am looking for my nephew but I seem to have found a lot of anger towards K-tec and the 750mc 182 series. Chaps, don't let that get in the way of getting out on track and race. Find another series to race in apart from the 750mc, like the French Trophy for the Track Attack Race Club. :rasp:
WRX
I am just being realistic, as there can be huge differences in these Clio engines' power output, it's also not just Clios but Pug and Citroens that can enter too. There is no hate to the 750MC, the "anger" is purely that people have been taken in by the control aspect of the series. Whilst in principle it's a good idea, the choice of components is shall we say dubious. I can appreciate why people are choosing the 750 but they are a little naive, if they think the cars will be equal too. I bet if you put the same driver in 3 different cars in the 750, their lap times would be quite different in each car. There are control parts in our series too, we have a limited selection of suspension mods and a control ECU, the OEM one lol, people in the 750 seem to argue that their series is a cheap entry into motorsport, yet they HAVE to spend £2000 on ECU and suspension to qualify and have to buy a more expensive car in the first place and being 16" tyres, they are more expensive to replace. Those control parts alone are almost as much, as I have had to spend on the total of converting my road car to race spec (cage etc.). As Nick says, another £500 is about there, so essentially starting from scratch, you have to spend about £3000 more than us to get started. Like I say I can appreciate your choice and wish your nephew well in it but we are just saying that our series is cheaper to get out there.
