New Clio 182 Series - 750 Motor Club

[Rob]

Yeah maybe, the more I think, the more standard dampers, free springs, could be a better idea.

 

[p@blo]

It is impossible to say. The stiffer suspension does make a big difference.
​

Fair comment

I honestly think coilovers should be acceptable, but they have an maximum RRP. So no one can go out and spend 2k on the best stuff out there.

Surely a sensible approach - free choice of manufacturer (Spax/Bilstein/Black Art/Gaz/H&R/KW/AST/KTEC/AVO etc) with an upper price bracket so as not to limit what people may prefer/have bought currently?

 

[Bluebeard]

Basically, we could all argue our points til we're blue in the face, the fact remains that unless 750/ktec listen, they'll have small grids.

If they changed the requirements, set up a race that could involve two drivers (as per tin tops) then I'd bet money that they'd have double the entries week in week out.

 

[Toastfrenzy]

Probably work out ok Tony thinking about it. We'd be probably mixing it with the slower Jap stuff.

Doubt full as they are really slow....think a std 172 cup has more drivability than the slow stuff in the Nippon class - though if more Clios etc join FT you won't be with the Nippons.

But what's the point in racing if you're not competitive? Tagging onto the FT would be, imo, soul destroying. getting lapped every time. My mate raced a 106 and when he got bored of being sat at the back getting lapped with the other standard (ish) cars, he had to spend the best part of £17k to make his car competitive.

If there was a series that was minimal budget wise, I wouldn't mind betting you'd get a 30 car grid every single meeting. What a great way to race, based on talent rather than bank balance. (I'd still be at the back either way, lol)

Agreed you won't come first over all but first in class is a possibility for sure. As in the Nippon class all the slow stuff are nearly always bun fighting with each other, closely bunched and it does look exciting to watch all be it a bit slow. You'll be in your own un mod class and with others of equal potential - just the drivers will be off different stds. You will be competitive in your own class.

Sam came third in class and 14th overall, nowt wrong with that?

For sure there would be more of a take up if all you needed was a cage, fire ex, cut off, seats, suit ARDS.

Decent result considering the competition on what sounds not a million miles from the kind of spec being proposed in this thread Mark. Out of curiosity, how do you reckon you'd compare on a set of standard Renault dampers with either Eibach/Cooksport/Spax lowering springs?

Chalk and cheese - I went std to KW V3 and then AST sportline II's in the space of a month.

It makes all the difference handling wise, knowing you can turn in at 90 with minimal roll etc...do that std and you'd be oversteering of the track.

There should be a un mod class in FT, make it so Tony.

Missed the point of pablo comment, no difference at all really having driven std and cook sport at Bedford.

 

[Toastfrenzy]

Missed the point of pablo comment, no difference at all really having driven std and cook sport at Bedford.

Both understeered loads when pushed so not much of an advantage gained, with fair amount of roll\movement.

Not slating either, just my opinion.

 

[p@blo]

Agreed you won't come first over all but first in class is a possibility for sure. As in the Nippon class all the slow stuff are nearly always bun fighting with each other, closely bunched and it does look exciting to watch all be it a bit slow. You'll be in your own un mod class and with others of equal potential - just the drivers will be off different stds. You will be competitive in your own class.

Sam came third in class and 14th overall, nowt wrong with that?

Top effort

Chalk and cheese - I went std to KW V3 and then AST sportline II's in the space of a month.

It makes all the difference handling wise, knowing you can turn in at 90 with minimal roll etc...do that std and you'd be oversteering of the track.

Having driven std and cook sport at Bedford no difference at all really. Both understeered loads when pushed so not much of an advantage gained, with fair amount of roll\movement. Not slating either, just my opinion.

Yep, that was what I was wondering.

So maybe something of a false economy to scrimp on suspension given the circumstances? Presumably all that understeer would mean more frequent tyre replacements from spring rates that don't offer enough roll resistance?

 

[Edges]

But you could go through 3 sets of tyres on cup shocks before spending more than those ktec coilovers

 

[Adam G]

Can't see how you can enforce a max price on anything. "I got em secondhand guv!"
​The cheaper it is for everyone, the better surely? So keep the mods to a minimum must be best way.

 

[Martin.]

Standard cup shocks with a free choice on springs would be good fun!

 

[Sam@NP]

Standard shocks no thanks. Just get a suspension supplier in, the Spax are s**te but at least everyone has to run with the same s**te.

ride height adjustment and damper clicks allow for some level of set up which is always fun and add to the experience as you can develop your own car.

 

[Tony Hunter]

Trust me, I could get a cheap set of coilovers, get them rebuilt by somebody to the same spec I'm running now. How could you police that?

A deal could even be done on new oe shocks etc. It needs to be kept simple.

 

[Tony Hunter]

Standard shocks no thanks. Just get a suspension supplier in, the Spax a s**te but at least everyone has to run with the same s**te.

Need to keep a level playing field Sam, budget racing, remember.

 

[p@blo]

Standard shocks no thanks. Just get a suspension supplier in, the Spax are s**te but at least everyone has to run with the same s**te.

Need to keep a level playing field Sam, budget racing, remember.

As per Toasts earlier comments about random over/understeer - wouldn't it drive like a bag of s**t on oem dampers though? :quiet:

 

[theduck]

Yes, because renaultsports are renowned for their terrible handling...

 

[Martin.]

Mine handles great on cup shocks and Sportlines. Does have a RARB too though.

 

[p@blo]

Yes, because renaultsports are renowned for their terrible handling...

Chalk and cheese - I went std to KW V3 and then AST sportline II's in the space of a month.

It makes all the difference handling wise, knowing you can turn in at 90 with minimal roll etc...do that std and you'd be oversteering of the track.

Both (std and cook sport) understeered loads when pushed so not much of an advantage gained, with fair amount of roll\movement.

Hadn't appreciated Pete's opinion was totally irrelevant. My bad.

 

[Sam@NP]

As I said earlier half the enjoyment of racing is development and set up, so some form of suspension adjustment is important to the enjoyment factor.

 

[MarkCup]

Hadn't appreciated Pete's opinion was totally irrelevant. My bad.

It's all relative though isn't it. I'd have thought Pete's comment is about trying to keep up with a pack of Tin Tops cars that all have equally/more exotic suspension.

As above (and we all know) a standard RS Clio doesn't handle badly at all. Try and keep up with an ex-BTCC car though and of course it will seem s**t.

 

[theduck]

It's not irrelevant. However your interpretation was rather extreme. As an entry level Motorsport car, standard would be fine. Just like standard is fine for track days.

 

[Tony Hunter]

As I said earlier half the enjoyment of racing is development and set up, so some form of suspension adjustment is important to the enjoyment factor.

But if all cars are the same, does it matter? The fact is, you will be racing, isn't that what it's all about?

Whatever suspension you choose, it will not please everybody. So why make people buy something at extra cost.

If you can be competitive in your own group, then that's all the better, if you want to upgrade, then move up into the modified class, simple.
If somebody wants to move from trackdays to racing, without spending a fortune, then keep it as basic as possible.

​It's a shame arb's are not more readily available, as this could be an allowed mod.

 

[Sam@NP]

But if all cars are the same, does it matter? The fact is, you will be racing, isn't that what it's all about?

Whatever suspension you choose, it will not please everybody. So why make people buy something at extra cost.

If you can be competitive in your own group, then that's all the better, if you want to upgrade, then move up into the modified class, simple.
If somebody wants to move from trackdays to racing, without spending a fortune, then keep it as basic as possible.

​It's a shame arb's are not more readily available, as this could be an allowed mod.

Guise I'm on my own then

 

[Tony Hunter]

Guise I'm on my own then

Not having a go at you Sam, it's easy to get carried away with this, that and whatever. Circuit racing has always been out of reach to a lot of people because of cost's involved, I'd say keep it to a minimum, and let them get out there.

 

[Sam@NP]

Not having a go at you Sam, it's easy to get carried away with this, that and whatever. Circuit racing has always been out of reach to a lot of people because of cost's involved, I'd say keep it to a minimum, and let them get out there.

I just love setting cars up
Dump the ktec ecu and 16 inch wheels and the 750 series is sorted in my mind.

 

[Tony Hunter]

Don't we all, but it cost more money, doing another test / trackday etc. Basics Sam, basics.££££

 

[Fred@BTM]

ban testing too and blindfold all drivers

 

[Sam@NP]

Don't we all, but it cost more money, doing another test / trackday etc. Basics Sam, basics.££££

I know I know but could it be too basic?

 

[sbridgey]

I know I know but could it be too basic?

I think you have a point there actually.

 

[Bluebeard]

What's to stop someone opening up Cliosport.net racing? Own rules and regulations, but just tag along to another series and follow them around?

(Please don't shoot me down, I have no idea how these things are run!)

 

[Tony Hunter]

ban testing too and blindfold all drivers

Can't stop people doing trackdays.

I know I know but could it be too basic?

I think you have a point there actually.

See, we cannot agree already. Just because some have a sort of track car already, they would want it based around what they have atm, which again, is that fair.

Reading what people wanted a few pages back, was just to be able to put cut off switches in and a roll cage, job done.

What's to stop someone opening up Cliosport.net racing? Own rules and regulations, but just tag along to another series and follow them around?

(Please don't shoot me down, I have no idea how these things are run!)

BIG cost's Dan, track time cost's a fortune.

I wouldn't run it, because CS.

​My granny's got a headache etc. Can't get people to turn up at meet's, nevermind rely on them to pay £300 and turn up to race

 

[Bluebeard]

Very valid point mate!

 

[Northy 8]

Has anyone every suggested a sprint series
Basically 1 car at once against the clock
I get bored of trackdays as without a clock I see no point
I was in the mlrss series for a few years
I think there would be enough interest to make this happen

 

[Tony Hunter]

Has anyone every suggested a sprint series
Basically 1 car at once against the clock
I get bored of trackdays as without a clock I see no point
I was in the mlrss series for a few years
I think there would be enough interest to make this happen

There has been a few guys on here that done sprinting already, completely different thing all together though.

 

[shiftspark]

There has been a few guys on here that done sprinting already, completely different thing all together though.

​The regs are a nightmare even to us lol

 

[Cooksport]

Lots of modification just isn't needed to Rs Clios for you to be quick round track.

Keep them as standard as possible, pay for some driving instruction instead of paying for unneeded modifications!

Give the 750mc a chance sort the regs out... There is no need to start thinking about other championships just yet!

 

[Tony Hunter]

Lots of modification just isn't needed to Rs Clios for you to be quick round track.

Keep them as standard as possible, pay for some driving instruction instead of paying for unneeded modifications!

Give the 750mc a chance sort the regs out... There is no need to start thinking about other championships just yet!

Thank you Josh.

I can get my road car around Brands in less than 60sec with all the crap in the boot!, so yes no need to go mad on performance parts at all.
I would like to see very basic cars out there, and people having fun.

 

[Adam G]

The closer to standard they are, the more level the playing field.

 

[Cooksport]

I'd be happy to aid with the scrutineering

 

[Bucks Automotive]

After reading all the comments on here it would seem that there are a few people who have never been involved with racing and racing clubs.
The clio 182 series is not a track day go racing series, its been designed around driver development that will mean the best driver wins. To do this we have to make sure the cars are the same hence why we use the a K tec ecu thats been developed for the this series to run on the clio 182. Advantages of using the one ecu is that we know every car runs the same map (not dissimilar from std map) this means anyone making (ie cheating) internal modifications will not be able to gain an advantage as you can't remap. The other advantage is that the ecu has full data logging that will be inspected after the race to confirm your engines running as standard. Engine imobilser is somthing no one is mentioning the k-tec ecu can run on any of the clio race cars, the ecu can be swapped from car to car if the club require. Standard ecus can't have the imobilser removed.
Suspension wise you cant buy it any where else cheaper as its not available any where else, we know this because we worked with the suspension manufacter and k tec independanlty of each other to design and re-work the suspension internals.
Wheel size, yes there is a question mark over this as all tyre manufactures will be changing all the track day tyres over the next year or two, once there is conformation of supply of the tyre then a discounted price of that tyre will be agreed for the clio 182 series drivers. If the price of a tyre for a 15 inch wheel is alot cheaper then this will be considered.
My advice to anyone who is thinking about this series is to come to a race meeting and have a chat.

Im not going to comment on all the threads but this series will have full grids next year and allready we have 7 cars completed and over 13 more being built.
personly from being involved with racing and racing clubs this will be a great championship.

Also would like to point out that at the weekend we had Mark Armstong instructer for silverstone driving our clio, he likes the car and regs so much that he is considering the series for next year.

ps quick note k tec are not part of the club nor taking pockets of money, k tec ecu is the best and cost efective one on the market along with the re worked suspension.

 

[GW200]

After reading all the comments on here it would seem that there are a few people who have never been involved with racing and racing clubs.
The clio 182 series is not a track day go racing series, its been designed around driver development that will mean the best driver wins. To do this we have to make sure the cars are the same hence why we use the a K tec ecu thats been developed for the this series to run on the clio 182. Advantages of using the one ecu is that we know every car runs the same map (not dissimilar from std map) this means anyone making (ie cheating) internal modifications will not be able to gain an advantage as you can't remap. The other advantage is that the ecu has full data logging that will be inspected after the race to confirm your engines running as standard. Engine imobilser is somthing no one is mentioning the k-tec ecu can run on any of the clio race cars, the ecu can be swapped from car to car if the club require. Standard ecus can't have the imobilser removed.
Suspension wise you cant buy it any where else cheaper as its not available any where else, we know this because we worked with the suspension manufacter and k tec independanlty of each other to design and re-work the suspension internals.
Wheel size, yes there is a question mark over this as all tyre manufactures will be changing all the track day tyres over the next year or two, once there is conformation of supply of the tyre then a discounted price of that tyre will be agreed for the clio 182 series drivers. If the price of a tyre for a 15 inch wheel is alot cheaper then this will be considered.
My advice to anyone who is thinking about this series is to come to a race meeting and have a chat.

Im not going to comment on all the threads but this series will have full grids next year and allready we have 7 cars completed and over 13 more being built.
personly from being involved with racing and racing clubs this will be a great championship.

Also would like to point out that at the weekend we had Mark Armstong instructer for silverstone driving our clio, he likes the car and regs so much that he is considering the series for next year.

ps quick note k tec are not part of the club nor taking pockets of money, k tec ecu is the best and cost efective one on the market along with the re worked suspension.

HEAR HEAR.

 

[Fred@BTM]

Point is you've added unnecessary costs to the series by making it CB22 only - WHY choose the most expensive car as a base when a 172 can be had for a fraction of the cost? IE 182 = £2-3K VS 172 = £500 base

The ecu thing i think is massive overkill, let people do what they want with the stock ecu, checking if an engine is standard internally isn't exactly hard, and we all know mapping the stock ecu gains sod all power wise, and the immobiliser can be taken off for about £60