pics of the engine strip (F4R) / 172

[Captain Slarty]

Hi guys n gals..

heres a link to quite a few pics of the f4r(t) turbo lump to go in the 172 (effectively the same engine)

I have added notes to the pics to help anyone unsure..

heres a sample..
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/captainslarty/172/engine%20strip/follower1.jpg

for the rest, point your browser at..

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/captainslarty/172/engine%20strip/

Joe.

 

[BenR]

all very nice!

caould you get any close pics into the ports?

BTW, i hope those are your sexy legs!

and your making a bonkers expensive high tec turbo clio and you got a B&Q value work bench!

was the last one set on fire with you tubo gas turbine!!

 

[ChavyBoy]

BenR I saw that as well but declined to comment on that

 

[ChavyBoy]

The B&Q work bench that is !

 

[BenR]

oh, i thought the leg was generally appealing.....
and capt, workin in new hiking boots....shame on you...i have that pro too though, every time i start to work on my car, i awlays seem to be wearing a nice white shirt!

 

[Captain Slarty]

damn !!

I new I should have hidden that box LOL !!

well, for £11.99 thge BnQ special workbench hs had some hammer, and it still stands

Joe..

 

[petes]

Couldnt help browsing around the rest of the site.

Am I imagining it, or have you got a water-cooled PC?????

 

[Captain Slarty]

thats the other bit of me..

I prefer the legs lololol...

(No.. I dont fly 737s for a living lol !) the pic was taken at a 2 day training course for the 737-200 series in Denver last year at United Airlines HQ. I fly the little ones when I have time but wanted to get actual 737 sim time in me log book...

because it was a mode D sim, you can book the hours as it is so increibly realistic.. got 2 take off and perfect landings in the log book now.. also a high altitude decompression rating in a Boeing 737..

but thats all another story for a beer one night lol.

Joe.

 

[Captain Slarty]

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/captainslarty/172/joe3.jpg

oooops, heres the piccy..



Joe

 

[BenR]

anyway, back to the engine....
sexy sexy sexy....
i love the tappet and rocker msot, only cause i haven see the inside of the ports yet..., maybe you could help with that capt? hehe

except i noticed the bores are still nicely honed.

 

[Captain Slarty]

Hi Ben, the engine has only been dyno run, about 1 hour. its otherwise new.

I will get some pics inside the ports later, I will also get some pics of the 172 head to compare vavle sizez and port sizes for ya.!

Petes.. yep.. thats me water cooled P4.. I have had 3ghz out of it...

Joe.

ps, one day I will sort the site out to index the images and data.

 

[BenR]

krrrrrsh "this is your captain speaking, could the stewardess bring me another scotch"...krrrsssh

now we know why your called capt.

 

[GR7]

Ben have you contacted Demon Tweeks yet? Or has JH contacted you as I gave him your e-mail address?

 

[BenR]

yes, emailed john with my fax no and to say thanks.

very nice and reasurring. made me believe in the company again.

 

[Captain Slarty]

that was something to do with it yep lol..

and Douglas Adams (Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy) for the rest..

I always liked the one where the pilots are fly Mr Boeings toy through the tail end of hurricane charlie..

As the severe turbulance settles the pilot comes on the intercom..

"Thanks for your cooperation ladies and gentlemen, as you can now feel, the worst of it is over... and, let my co-pilot and I assure you all that at no time were you in any danger" .. click

but.. the intercom switch didnt flip off !..

over the intercom to cattle class is heard - from the pilot to copilot -

"Jeeeeeeez Crize .. how the bloody hell did we survive that !!.. I damn near crapped meself !!.. what I need now is a strong black coffee and a blow job !"

The senior flight attendent (trolly dolly) rushes to the cockpit to inform the pilot of his fauz pas...

as she passes row 22 a little old dear grabs her arm and says ..

" Dont forget his coffee dear"

LMAO !!

Joe

 

[Man-Chun]

Lo Capt, in the pic Headcast.jpg the yellow oil cap is in a different place to mine. Also looking at the pics the oil feed and return seems cool for the turbo then

Chun.

 

[Captain Slarty]

Hi Chun, the oil filler on the f4r 760 is in the middle.. but you cant use that top casting as it does not have vvt available.

there is no problem with the location on the 172 head top though.

(AND - you cannot swap cam covers from one engine to the other unless you use the whole head.. !!!) the cam bearings run directly in the head and are align bored at production - must always be kept in pairs.

the feed and returns are the correct ones. (This block is an actual turbo block)

the 172 does have the connection point to the oil gallery but it is not drilled. When the pistons are being fitted it will be a simple case of getting it drilled and tapped (I will send pics of sizes and location.

same for the oil retuen too, there is a blank on the casting on the 172 block - but not drilled.. that should be drilled at the same time (No tapping here.. just a simple hole that the return pipe pushes into.

Joe.

 

[Man-Chun]

Ah cool, cheers Capt.

Chun.

 

[petes]

Captain - bit OT

Im an ex Cat A PPL - couple of hundred hours, mainly in a Jodel D117 (proper plane - taildragger), very few instruments (IFR - I fly roads).

The only time you can have too much fuel is when you are on fire

 

[BenR]

hahaha!!!!!

 

[Captain Slarty]

Hi Petes, I got about 300 + ..

Mainly 3 axis microlights , Cyclone AX3, and AMF Chevron

The Jodel is a nice aircraft !.

Almost all mine is I FOLLOW ROADS too

Got 4 hours 737 circuits, 1 hour inc high altitude decompression rating (the high jump!) and 30 - 40 on cessnas 150, 152, 172..

2 hours on R22 rotary.. that was great fun..

and a couple aerobatics in the 150A.

We will have to meet up sometime.

Joe

 

[petes]

Yep, did some aeros in a 152 with a guy called John Harper, ex British Champ. Hes the only person I know who can loop one whilst eating an apple!

Didnt keep my hours up, unfortunately. Took up car racing instead.

Meeting sounds good - probably when theres a Cliosport meet closer than Southend (West Midlands anyone?).

 

[Master Chief]

Captain, could you post the main defrences betwen the original 172 engien and the turbo engien ?

Allso , are you building the turbo on the original 172 VVT engien, or are you building it on the turbo (without VVT) engine ?

BTW: The oil feed and return line (i gues you mean to the TURBO unit itself), can they be drilled on the original 172block without the need ov opening the engien up ?

Thanks...

 

[Eddd]

Ah flying as well! What a guy. I got the usual 152,172, Archer, Arrow and R22 bits in all without ever following through to get my licence. Also 6 hrs aerobatic in a S2B which is the bit that I remember!

 

[Captain Slarty]

HI Edd M8

I think you are doing it the best way.. get to be able to hadle the aircraft then go n have fun in different types.

as for the beautiful Pitts.. I am insanely jealous... ..

I would love to do that..

have you ever seen the aircombat school flying the italian fighter (prop) trainer ??. that looks good !..

I would recommend that you try ATOP (Airline transport orientation program in Denver Colorado (UA - United Airlines).. its a hoot.. and by gads you have a riot !

I did mine in June last year.. just prior to 9/11

it was all stopped whilst the feds checked me files with MI6 (yep... any pilot or trainee that was taking a short course on jet passenger aircraft was in the hotseat !!.. public enemy no. 1!

but, I am happy to say that the world - or, the yanks .. have seen sense and its now up again. the old stapleton airport at Denver... cheap flights via Atlanta with Delta too...

it was nearly cheaper to have a fourtnight in the states with 2 days playing 737s.. 4 nights in Vegas and a bloody good time in the Rockies.. then to book 4 hours ina british airways sim.. seriously..

web site for heavy jet training to mere mortals...

http://b737.com/

Wayne Philips is the man.. he taught me 737 systems and handling in 2 days to the level I could taxi, take off.. maintain airspeed and altitude in congested space, descend and land to a very high (commercial) standard.

the highdive was purely an FAA logboox endorsement for sudden decompression at altitude followed by full emercency procedures (throttles at idle - nose down till the ASI hits the barber pole.. then ,and only then.. bother to tell the muppets in cattle lol...

at 10k, masks off... wipe arses lol..

Also able to handle full fire drills, engine failures and aborted take off and go-arounds..

bargain of the century.. with your existing flying skills you would do well and love it..

 

[BenR]

anybody ever tried a simulation of teh old HK int. airport Kai Tak?

 

[Captain Slarty]

Hiya Chief m8.

Captain, could you post the main defrences betwen the original 172 engien and the turbo engien ?

Head - no vvt.. ports smaller than the 172.. not sure on valve sizes yet.. could be the same.

Inlet manifold will fit the 172 top holes in the head and ports line up fine, the bottom holes will need drilling or an adapter plate (I go for the second)

No oil supply or return holes in the 172 block (there, but not drilled)

I have been unable to compare the following yet.

Crank, rods, block webbing, and, Main bearing land area for strength (probably the same)

Oil pump.. probably the same but with an slightly uprated pump pressur erelease valve (ie - a 10p washer lol)


Allso , are you building the turbo on the original 172 VVT engien, or are you building it on the turbo (without VVT) engine ?

the engine will be a hybrid.

block, crank, rods from the strongest looking block with the largest crank journals.. if they are the same (as I believe), then the turbo short engine will be used to enable a simple swapout.

the 172 head assembly will be used with slight hacksawing the coil mount from the exhaust side of the cam cover ... thus retaining vvt which is useful for playing with race cams to make the thing idle afterwards lol...


BTW: The oil feed and return line (i gues you mean to the TURBO unit itself), can they be drilled on the original 172block without the need ov opening the engien up ?


there is no way, sorry, that you can drill these holes with the engine assembled Sir. you must strip the block bare, drill and tap, and then high pressure wash the galleries for swarf.. no shortcuts on that one. !

the pistons (Compression ratio) HAVE to be lowered on the 172.. do not play turbo without doing this. .

if you want to experiment, I can let you have a complete short engine (new) with 9.5:1 turbo pistons, all galleries present... turbo, exhaust manifold, inlet and injectors for a bloody good price.

you could get 230+ (170+ at the wheels) on the 9.5:1 pistons with an intercooler.

all you would need to do is swap the bottom end of the engine for this - add the exhaust pipework, cooler and management system to go.

would be looking at about 2k though depending on what exactly you want ?

you would still have a 172 short engine to sell, mod, play with, keep etc.

Joe.

 

[Captain Slarty]

Ben MATE !!!!

Kaitak RW 13 is fantastic !..

(As u may have guessed, my other hobby is flying and flight simming )

http://www.flightsim.fsbusiness.co.uk/

thats one of my other neglected web sites lol...

the around the world flight was ace.. I know.. very sad LOL...

Joe.. not really a total anorak... hee hee

 

[Master Chief]

Captain...
In the kit you sold earlyer - turbo , intake manifold and exhaust manifold.
What exactly fits 100% to the 172 engien, and what needs modifications ?
(I understand the intake manifold needs the adapter plate for the lower holes how about the rest?).

Allso, is there a way to tap for oil for the turbo in another place ? i.e: without needing to open the engien ?

Last thing, i thaught both the turbo lump and the 172 are the same, i see that they are not! How exactly is the rubo lump shorter ? In leght ?

Thanks...

 

[Captain Slarty]

Hi Cheif,

a short engine is a term for block, crank, pistons as an assembly..

*UK term used by engine manufacturers and reconditioners)

doesnt mean anything to do with measurement ... the block is exactly the same measurement - sorry for the confusion.

All the other parts fit no probs apart from the bottom holes for the inlet.

you could take the oil supply from the oil pressure sender unit, unscrew it, screw in a tee-pieve then connect bothe the sender and turbo feed to this. the oil return need to go to the sump.

I havent checked yet, but if the sump is removable with the engine in the car then you could remove it, drill a hole and refit it.

(Are you intending not to change the pistons ?)

Joe.

 

[Master Chief]

Hi, captain.
Iam glad you clearted that "short engien" businees for me (i feel a bit stupid).

Anyway, the deal with the pistions is like this.
I still have about one and a half year waranty on the car, so replacing the pistons and keeping the waranty wount work !
What i intend to do is install everything, turbo , inlet, outlet, ECU,piping and intercooler, with as little modifications as possible.
I intend to use a very small boost, meaby up to 4 PSI, just top see that everything is working.
In the worse case scenerio, that something would go wrong i will still be able to remove everything and restore everyhting to the original.
This way i can go to renault and use my waranty on whatever went wrong!
Althaught i dont think they will belive that the pistons melted from the temperature outside !

Tell me, did i understand correctly, my 172 original block is made from IRON !
If soo this means that this engien is capable of serious power !!!

Atlist as the old Peugeout MI16 enbgiens, especialy when you TURBO charge them!
I have a friend who has dynoed his to 350BHP , and that is on 900kg !

Anyway , what about the ECU, Why do you say it wont fit ?

Thanks..

 

[Captain Slarty]

Hi Cheif,
yes, the block is iron.. and bloody strong.

I understand what you are saying about keeping low boost and original pistons.. the difficulty will be using low boost... and maintianing it..

a waste gate actualtor from a mini metro turbo might work, it has a very low boost (about 3-4 psi)..

on a 172 (and all new renaults) the ecu is coded to that specific vehicle and controls - (interfaces with, or actuates) extras such as speedo, aircon, abs etc..

the coding consists of the ignition key, transponder and ecu and cannot yet be changed.

so its the original or an aftermarket only..

on very low boost you may well get away with the original ecu with no mods apart from slightly increased fuel pressure which is now possible.

Joe.

 

[Man-Chun]

Whats the method for increaseing fuel pressure Capt?. A few weeks back no one knew how to increase fuel pressure without a chip.

Chun.

 

[Captain Slarty]

Chun, If I told you, unfortunately, I would have to kill you....



Seriously though...

this is something I am working on with the top renault aftermarket suppliers.

I came across a way that the mods can be done without noticable changes and due to market demand, that is unique.

so, for now, this wi have to remain hush hush.

But.. it WILL be available for the turbo conversion guys Free of charge IF it proves to be the way to go.

hope you understand.

Joe

 

[ak_uk]

Capn


Are you working with HP on any of this stuff?


ak

 

[Man-Chun]

Np Capt

Chun.