Price of a basic race spec 1*2

[Tomshep86]

Hey everyone, I'll be shortly going away for far to long courtesy of the queen and when I return ill have to much money burning a hole in my pocket. I have always wanted a 182 and also wanted to start racing. So I have noticed there are a few racers on here and was wondering if you could provide a rough estimate on costs (a vague ask I know) I'm an avionics engineer so wiring is easy, have many people to help including the use of a well skilled CBC operators and machinists and possibly some aircraft grade ally and titanium, legitimately obviously lol

 

[mark smith87]

Probably a good idea to talk to the guys at Burpspeed. They race a Ph1 172 which is pretty rapid.
You will need to take your ARDS test as well. All the MSV owned tracks run race schools and tests.

 

[Tomshep86]

Cheers fella Ill get onto that

 

[Chip-mk1]

Buy a car already done, FAR cheaper than building one.

Get one that was competitive last year, but someone is moving up to a higher series.

Or start with a cup car if the series you are interested in will allow stuff like sequential boxes (tintops that burpspeed do wont for example as thats really an entry level series for what is intended to be essentially a road car with a cage, although of course its evolved past that now and some of them have built pretty cool race cars whilst bending the spirit of the rules but not breaking the letter of them!)

 

[Junior Bear]

Does Icarus at tdf do the road legal Clio cups still?


Or did I dream it?

 

[bozothenutter]

ooohhh...he mentioned TdF........:evil:

 

[Junior Bear]

I don't really keep up with CS news, what's wrong with tdf

 

[Chip-mk1]

I don't really keep up with CS news, what's wrong with tdf

Have a read of bigash's thread, they properly tucked him up but no point going into it here as well.

 

[mark123]

Buying ready built is the cheapest route or probably even cheaper a 90% complete car that someone has lost interest in.

It needs to comply with http://www.msauk.org/site/cms/contentviewarticle.asp?article=1122 in particular sections J, K and Q.

Basically the minimum you need is a 6 point cage, 4 point harness, electrical cutoff that stops the engine and isolates the battery from the electrics, plumbed in extinguisher.

If you can do it all yourself you will save a lot. I reckon if I had just focused purely on making it pass the safety regs I could have built the car for 3k. But that would have been without any performance mods.

IIRC for me OMP cage 500, seat+harness 500, extinguisher 200, cutoff+wiring+battery 400, transponder second hand 230. The rest went on random little things that just add up.

Getting the car is really only a small blip in the overall cost of racing - think tyres, entry fees, fuel, spares, trailer, ....

 

[Tomshep86]

Thanks for the advice guys. I'm really keen on doing the work myself so I can maintain it myself I know it will be the expensive and longer route but as I wll only be buying parts and not paying for labour it should be a little cheaper. Tin tops sound like what I'm after as the mrs is forcing me to get a "hobby" as I annoy her by winging that I'm bored lol. I get back in July next year and I'll be looking for a car to do over the winter and keep it under 10k including car purchase (cheaper the better). Oh and that's with a standard power engine and ecu for reliability. Unless someone would suggest upgrading certain parts for reliability purposes.

 

[Tomshep86]

Wow that seems cheap But that's good. May squeeze a couple of races inc tyres and things for my budget oh including adds test

 

[Chip-mk1]

10K wont get you anywhere near to building a competitive tintops car, realistically you will have to stick with a standard engine in that sort of budget range as bodies and some forged bits would be over half your budget gone.

Still be great fun though

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

Race prepping a standard car is going to cost you in the region of £25k from scratch (based on when I was involved in race prepping cars for a company I worked with). Depends on what you're entering to a point though.

FIA rated gear is the same cost whatever car you're putting it in, so it makes cheap cars look really expensive when you look on websites that sell racecars. IMO it's not a bad idea to start with a chassis that has room to upgrade. Once you've spunked 10k on safety equipment and chassis mods you won't want to get rid of it for a loss anytime soon.

The series I helped with (wish I could afford to race!) was the BMW Kumho Cup. Class D included E36 BMW 318is so slow as s**t in a straight line, but when you're ready/have the funds you could drop an M3 engine in there and you're ready for the higher classes. Racing a 172 must be a riot too though, but it will still cost you body parts to get it ready.

 

[mark123]

10K wont get you anywhere near to building a competitive tintops car, realistically you will have to stick with a standard engine in that sort of budget range as bodies and some forged bits would be over half your budget gone.

Still be great fun though

I can say that it is definitely a lot of fun. Although I'm not likely to win anything any time soon being at the slow end of class A means I have lots of fun mixing it with the lower class cars and other cars of similar spec in my class.

 

[Tomshep86]

Ha don't think the mrs will allow me 25k of the buy a house fund lol. I'm not wanting to be competitive to begin with am just looking to start. Maybe I should start of doing a well sorted track day car and see how much I can save away for something later on. Have seen alot of track threads on here and im sure it would save me some money. Really grateful for the reply's I'm getting so cheers guys

 

[Chip-mk1]

Have you done many trackdays?

I see no point going racing till you have TBH, may as well learn the basics where its cheap, lol

 

[Tomshep86]

Sadly I haven't but was gonna jump in the deep end and once I had the car could learn with it then wouldn't need much adjusting for a different car. But I can see the need to do the trackday route so ill look into what I need for that while keeping race spec in the back of my mind lol.

 

[Budgie]

Trackdays are definitely the place to start!

Almost like asking which trainers are the best to run a marathon before you've even attempted a 5k fun run.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Do trackdays in the car basically standard first of all (but some better disks and pads are a good investment)

Then see if you enjoy it, and over time you can progress the car, always while keeping an eye on the rulebook to make sure you dont do something you might need to undo later on.

 

[Tomshep86]

Haha fair point I'm gonna make a list and start stockpiling Cheers again

 

[Chip-mk1]

See you at a trackday soon then hopefully

Next one for me is 16th Feb at bedford, brilliant track for beginners as its so hard to have a bad crash there because there is so much run off on most of the track.

 

[Tomshep86]

Well I won't have a car by then unless the right one comes along as it will be sat for 4 months otherwise. I live not far from snetterton and have the use of an airfield very occasionally. Looking forward to it be a good little hobby ( life consuming probably)

 

[gez 172]

I'd buy something like this personally, to start off.

http://www.cliosport.net/forum/show...s-amp-Class-Winning-Race-Car-in-CSCC-Tin-Tops

You know it's fully ready to do what you need. And this half your budget. Spend a few £££ on trackdays yourself, then when you think your ready, off to go, with only needing to do your race license

 

[Sir_Dave]

Learn to drive, ie get tuition. Buy a car already done, dont try & run before you can walk. Essentially in that order.

I could go racing for £5k all in tomorrow (easily), thats car, necessary modifications, licence, race gear, etc.

Give me £10k and ill give you a car that winning its 1.6 class every race it attends (as long as you can drive anyways).

In fact, for £12k ill get you a car that laps Coombe faster than Mike Jordan in that sodding DC5 Intergra.

 

[Nick172Cup]

I'd buy something like this personally, to start off.

http://www.cliosport.net/forum/show...s-amp-Class-Winning-Race-Car-in-CSCC-Tin-Tops

You know it's fully ready to do what you need. And this half your budget. Spend a few £££ on trackdays yourself, then when you think your ready, off to go, with only needing to do your race license

That's unbelievably good value!

Hell I'm tempted to sack off the 'work in progress' 172 Cup racecar I'm building currently for that.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Learn to drive, ie get tuition. Buy a car already done, dont try & run before you can walk. Essentially in that order.

I could go racing for £5k all in tomorrow (easily), thats car, necessary modifications, licence, race gear, etc.

Give me £10k and ill give you a car that winning its 1.6 class every race it attends (as long as you can drive anyways).

In fact, for £12k ill get you a car that laps Coombe faster than Mike Jordan in that sodding DC5 Intergra.

For 12K you can get him a car (heavy enough and complying to rules etc to be eligable for racing in tintops and the like) that can beat that integra?
Gen me up then please, as I would be quite interested in that.

 

[gez 172]

That's unbelievably good value!

Hell I'm tempted to sack off the 'work in progress' 172 Cup racecar I'm building currently for that.

Wish I had the space to keep it, I'd buy it otherwise. Epicness

 

[Sam@NP]

For 12K you can get him a car (heavy enough and complying to rules etc to be eligable for racing in tintops and the like) that can beat that integra?
Gen me up then please, as I would be quite interested in that.

M3, suspension, slicks. Done

Wont be eligible for Tin Top though.

 

[Chip-mk1]

M3, suspension, slicks. Done

Wont be eligible for Tin Top though.

Yeah those under 2 litres m3 which is eligable can be quite hard to find.

 

[Sir_Dave]

For 12K you can get him a car (heavy enough and complying to rules etc to be eligable for racing in tintops and the like) that can beat that integra?
Gen me up then please, as I would be quite interested in that.

Proper spec 106 Gti or Saxo Vts with a Sandy Brown race engine.

This would have been perfect in fact: http://www.nick-charles.co.uk/for-sale.html

A 106 with one of his engines did this the other day:

best lap was a simply incredible 1:14.397, I'd never imagine we'd see anything like that, comparable with the "Supertouring" Primeras that visited a couple years back and bettering Mike Jordan's pseudo BTCC Tin Top DC5's best 1:14.557, from a couple meetings back.

Some people might recognise the following video (Daniel posted it before), Dave Kift's 106:


Proper.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Proper spec 106 Gti or Saxo Vts with a Sandy Brown race engine.

This would have been perfect in fact: http://www.nick-charles.co.uk/for-sale.html

A 106 with one of his engines did this the other day:



Proper.

Surprised that Integra wasnt doing 1:13s TBH, was it wet that day or something? lol

I still suspect you would struggle to build it for 12K though TBH

Great time though, i'm not taking anyway from what small engined light cars can do.

My mate has a 106 ex cup car as a rally car, I used to map it for him previously on the old setup but he now has a sandy brown engine and it goes very well apparently.


Are those CCSC 106's actually eligable for tintops though? as I thought they were allowed carbon roofs etc in that series. Plus they are a bit one trick pony in that most of them are really setup just for combe, so take them to other tracks and I reckon that integra would do a lot better against them too than on their one home track as it were.

 

[Sam@NP]

Yeah those under 2 litres m3 which is eligable can be quite hard to find.

Engine swap and dont tell anyone

 

[Tomshep86]

Well chatted with the boss and a track day car is what I'm gonna go for and I'll go from there. Thanks for the help guys. Looked in to tuition as I know I'm gonna need a lot Any good company's you could suggest or can you get them from the track day organisers?

 

[Chip-mk1]

Do a few trackdays first, then do some tuition, you can learn a fair bit on your own.

Tony Hunter on here does tuition and IMHO is very good for teaching a beginner like you will be.

 

[Sir_Dave]

I still suspect you would struggle to build it for 12K though TBH

Imho, if its your 1st ever foray into motorsport, you buy a pre-built car, unless you have bottomless pockets.

Many threads on this very forum prove that time & time again unfortunately.

Depends on the spec of course, but most of the CSCC ones are eligible for tin tops as well i believe.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Agreed on the buying a car not building it, my first comment in this thread:

Buy a car already done, FAR cheaper than building one.


I thought you were saying that if people come to you with 12K, you would build them a car of the suitable spec, not that you would hunt the classifieds and buy one and hope the engine is still good etc.

 

[Sir_Dave]

I thought you were saying that if people come to you with 12K, you would build them a car of the suitable spec, not that you would hunt the classifieds and buy one and hope the engine is still good etc.

To be honest, i couldnt build anything for £12k that was quicker than the Teg, but i could probably build a saxo for £10k that would be pretty much at the top of the 1.6 class in Tin Tops. The only reason i havent, is that i dont have £10k lol.

 

[Chip-mk1]

To be honest, i couldnt build anything for £12k that was quicker than the Teg, but i could probably build a saxo for £10k that would be pretty much at the top of the 1.6 class in Tin Tops. The only reason i havent, is that i dont have £10k lol.

Saxos are a great way to go, if you look at the spec of that nick charles car for example, its actually a relatively cheap engine to replicate:

Standard crank lightened and balanced,
SB custom lightweight pistons (79.5mm bore) and con rods,
Steel flywheel,
SB ported head, with custom single piece valves and custom solid followers, double springs,
SB custom cam profiles,
GSXR bodies on custom SB/CS inlet manifold and trumpet profile, twin injectors,
SB designed exhaust manifold, specifically for this engine spec,
CS custom exhaust system,
DTA S40 management on SB loom.

Im sure I would fall a good 10bhp or so short (maybe even a little more than that) of sandy brown trying to build the same thing as the devil is in the detail with the cam profiles and timing etc and that only comes with experience of building that specific engine time and time again, but you'd certainly get close for not a lot of money DIY as there is nothing really exotic in there, hell even the bodies are just reclaimed motorbike ones worth 100 quid or so and its on a standard (lightly worked) crank etc not an arrow or anything like that.

 

[Sir_Dave]

Exactly

Sod building a clio race car lol.

 

[Tomshep86]

Feel like a child now and am getting excited. Gonna go into work tomorrow and find out if the Motorsport club here offers tuition...
So the list so far is:
buy car
upgrade pads and discs
seats and harness
sticky tyres
And do some track days
( really should wait till I'm back to do this but I'm getting a little carried away at the moment and her in doors is pushing me which is odd. She is guilty about something lol)
.
.
upgrade. To a whit line arb
suspension
and lots of tuition