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renault dont stock oil for 197???!!!



  Black 197
went to Gordon Lamb Chesterfield today.
"can i have some oil and oil filter for clio 197 please"
5 minutes pass
"here you go"
"that 15W 40 oil I need 5W 40"
5 mins pass
"here you go"
"thats 10W 40, it runs on 5W 40"
"you'll be lucky"
2 mins pass
"no we dont stock it, do you still want the filter"
"I do, can you order me some oil and ill pick it up next week"
"no you'll have to ring us the day before you need it and see if we've got any"
"cant you give me some from the workshop"
2 mins pass
"they havent got any"
"how do they service the Rs cars then?"
"they use 10W 40" !!!!!!
So I walked out shaking my head and chuckling, before shedding a little tear thinking im in a paralled universe.
So I've got to ring the day before I need to oil to be told the same thing.

Is this really still what the dealers are like?
 
"how do they service the Rs cars then?"
"they use 10W 40" !!!!!!
So I walked out shaking my head and chuckling, before shedding a little tear thinking im in a paralled universe.
So I've got to ring the day before I need to oil to be told the same thing.

Is this really still what the dealers are like?

Since dealers can use 10w 40 under the renault spec (its fine so long as temps don't drop below -20) maybe you should have aksed why they used 10W 40 oil before making out you know more than you do.
 
  M4 LCI, X1, ZX10R
My cars first service at Renault had 10w40 put in, but my it's secound came around when I had it went to the local dealer and they used 5w40 and it wasn't an expensive service either.
 
  200 cup (van blanc)
if the optimum oil spec is 5W 40 then renault should supply that oil, i have had this battle before when getting my old 182 serviced - i wanted fully synthetic oil (as specified in handbook) they put in semi-synth, which i feel is not good enough for such as high performance engine

take your business elsewhere to a dealer who listens to the customers and do what they are instructed to do:

dont wash it
put in fully synthetic

evans-halshaw in rotherham do a good job - i now use them for servicing and not renault in pontefract
 
if the optimum oil spec is 5W 40 then renault should supply that oil, i have had this battle before when getting my old 182 serviced - i wanted fully synthetic oil (as specified in handbook) they put in semi-synth, which i feel is not good enough for such as high performance engine

take your business elsewhere to a dealer who listens to the customers and do what they are instructed to do:

put in fully synthetic
Its not the optimum oil at all there laods of variables.

The 182 isn't a high performacne engine.

Why should a dealer do as you say though regards oil after all there stamping your service book and using the correct oil which you don't even know.
 

Martin_172

ClioSport Club Member
edde. sod off and read your handbook

no need for that.


as edde said they stamp your service book and use the oil specified by renault, at the end of the day it was them who designed your engine, they wont use 10w40 if they dont think its up to the job for such a "high performance" engine.


im all for using decent oil, i used to change my oil in my 1.2 16v every 3k miles with 5w40 millers back in the day when i had money to burn but at the end of the day using 10w40 every 12k miles isnt going to do your engine any harm and its still going to run way over 150k miles!!! at least!
 

MRBILLYUK

ClioSport Club Member
  FF Jeden Osiem Dwa
If your not happy with the oil that Renault use , supply your own . Simple really ;)
 

Marky_

ClioSport Club Member
  182
Imo, they shouldn't advise the owners to use one grade of oil but then use a different type themselves.
 

Martin_172

ClioSport Club Member
they dont advise you to use one grade and use a different, they tell you exactly what grade(s) of oil is acceptable for the engine and they use it, as long as its of the recomended spec its fine.

renault service your car to THEIR specification, if you want to have it serviced differently take it somewhere else.
 
  200 cup (van blanc)
Renault dont always service to their own speciifcation, as some dealerships dont know their own product

if the handbook says fully synthetic i want fully synthetic oil
 
Renault dont always service to their own speciifcation, as some dealerships dont know their own product

if the handbook says fully synthetic i want fully synthetic oil

Do you know what part synthetic and fully synthetic are? what are the differences?

As long as the oil is api approved and tested theres no problem with using part synthetic.

I cant honestly belive how anal some people are... And acting like they know it when they clearly have no idea.
 
  Chelsea tractor
I bet over half the people in this thread whould not be able to explain what the "5" and "40" parts mean. lol
 
D

dick

wont make f**k all difference mate, put 15w30 in a veryron in antarcticca, then you might have a few issues.

in a renault in england, 10w40 is gonna be fine.
 
Sorry but why would you buy oil from a renault dealer?
Because its good stuff.
I do not believe its up to the job

i am the customer, i get what i want
You don't seem to get the concept of fit for purpose. Its its the right approvals then its OK.

I take it you have done much work on oil technologie/ability to know what is good and right for your car and you've worked with or are the Renault design team engineer?
renault service your car to THEIR specification, if you want to have it serviced differently take it somewhere else.
Exactly and accept the problems when you come to try get warently work or goodwll later on.
I cant honestly belive how anal some people are... And acting like they know it when they clearly have no idea.
I know I woulnd't want someone to try show up a Rencualt techie thinking he/she knows better and look like a right fool.
the service advice book for the 197 states 5w 40.
Its sort of right it depends on conditions and the real rule book is th Renault technical manauals which in UK so long as temps stay over -20 degrees then 10-40 is fine. Before anyone says its only OK well 10-40 is only OK as well. There loads of variables.
 
  DC5
0w-40, 5w-40, 10w-40 and 15w-40 are all the same thickness (14 centistokes) at 100degC.

Centistokes (cst) is the measure of a fluid's resistance to flow (viscosity). It is calculated in terms of the time required for a standard quantity of fluid at a certain temperature to flow through a standard orifice. The higher the value, the more viscous the fluid.

As viscosity varies with temperature, the value is meaningless unless accompanied by the temperature at which it is measured. In the case of oils, viscosity is generally reported in centistokes (cst) and usually measured at 40degC and 100degC.

So, all oils that end in 40 (sae 40) are around 14cst thickness at 100degC.

This applies to all oils that end in the same number, all oils that end in 50 (sae 50) are around 18.5cst at 100degC and all oils that end in 60 (sae 60) are around 24cst at 100degC.

With me so far?

Great!

Now, ALL oils are thicker when cold. Confused? It's true and here is a table to illustrate this.

SAE 40 (straight 40)

Temp degC.........................Viscosity (thickness)

0..........................................2579cst
20..........................................473cst
40..........................................135cst
60..........................................52.2cs t
100........................................ 14cst
120.........................................8.8cst

As you will see, there is plenty of viscosity at 0degC, in fact many times more than at 100degC and this is the problem especially in cold weather, can the oil flow quick enough to protect vital engine parts at start up. Not really!

So, given that an sae 40 is 14cst at 100degC which is adequate viscosity to protect the engine, and much thicker when cold, how can a 0w oil be too thin?

Well, it can't is the truth.

The clever part (thanks to synthetics) is that thin base oils can be used so that start up viscosity (on say a 5w-40 at 0degC) is reduced to around 800cst and this obviously gives much better flow than a monograde sae 40 (2579cst as quoted above).

So, how does this happen, well as explained at the beginning, it's all about temperature, yes a thin base oil is still thicker when cold than at 100degC but the clever stuff (due to synthetics again) is that the chemists are able to build these oils out of molecules that do not thin to less than 14cst at 100degC!

What are the parameters for our recommendations?
Well, we always talk about good cold start protection, by this we mean flow so a 5w will flow better than a 10w and so on. This is why we recommend 5w or 10w as the thickest you want to use except in exceptional circumstances. Flow is critical to protect the engine from wear!

We also talk about oil temps, mods and what the car is used for. This is related to the second number xw-(XX) as there may be issues with oil temperatures causing the oil to be too thin and therefore the possibility of metal to metal contact.

This is difficult to explain but, if for example your oil temp does not exceed 120degC at any time then a good "shear stable" sae 40 is perfectly capable of giving protection.

"Shear stability" is important here because if the oil shears it thins and that's not good!

However, if you are seeing temperatures in excess of 120degC due to mods and track use etc then there is a strong argument to using an sae 50 as it will have more viscosity at these excessive temperatures.

There are trade offs here. Thicker oils cause more friction and therefore more heat and they waste power and affect fuel consumption so it's always best to use the thinnest oil (i.e. second number) that you can get away with and still maintain oil pressure.

I hope this helps explain a bit.
 
  Black Gold with cup packs
went to Gordon Lamb Chesterfield today.
"can i have some oil and oil filter for clio 197 please"
5 minutes pass
"here you go"
"that 15W 40 oil I need 5W 40"
5 mins pass
"here you go"
"thats 10W 40, it runs on 5W 40"
"you'll be lucky"
2 mins pass
"no we dont stock it, do you still want the filter"
"I do, can you order me some oil and ill pick it up next week"
"no you'll have to ring us the day before you need it and see if we've got any"
"cant you give me some from the workshop"
2 mins pass
"they havent got any"
"how do they service the Rs cars then?"
"they use 10W 40" !!!!!!
So I walked out shaking my head and chuckling, before shedding a little tear thinking im in a paralled universe.
So I've got to ring the day before I need to oil to be told the same thing.

Is this really still what the dealers are like?


This is how the majority of the dealers are i'm afraid. I called Renault Cardiff to order a 197 cup. They said they have never heard of the car they tried to sell me an R27 as the cup at first, this was last week.
 
0w-40, 5w-40, 10w-40 and 15w-40 are all the same thickness (14 centistokes) at 100degC.

Centistokes (cst) is the measure of a fluid's resistance to flow (viscosity). It is calculated in terms of the time required for a standard quantity of fluid at a certain temperature to flow through a standard orifice. The higher the value, the more viscous the fluid.

As viscosity varies with temperature, the value is meaningless unless accompanied by the temperature at which it is measured. In the case of oils, viscosity is generally reported in centistokes (cst) and usually measured at 40degC and 100degC.

So, all oils that end in 40 (sae 40) are around 14cst thickness at 100degC.

This applies to all oils that end in the same number, all oils that end in 50 (sae 50) are around 18.5cst at 100degC and all oils that end in 60 (sae 60) are around 24cst at 100degC.

With me so far?

Great!

Now, ALL oils are thicker when cold. Confused? It's true and here is a table to illustrate this.

SAE 40 (straight 40)

Temp degC.........................Viscosity (thickness)

0..........................................2579cst
20..........................................473cst
40..........................................135cst
60..........................................52.2cs t
100........................................ 14cst
120.........................................8.8cst

As you will see, there is plenty of viscosity at 0degC, in fact many times more than at 100degC and this is the problem especially in cold weather, can the oil flow quick enough to protect vital engine parts at start up. Not really!

So, given that an sae 40 is 14cst at 100degC which is adequate viscosity to protect the engine, and much thicker when cold, how can a 0w oil be too thin?

Well, it can't is the truth.

The clever part (thanks to synthetics) is that thin base oils can be used so that start up viscosity (on say a 5w-40 at 0degC) is reduced to around 800cst and this obviously gives much better flow than a monograde sae 40 (2579cst as quoted above).

So, how does this happen, well as explained at the beginning, it's all about temperature, yes a thin base oil is still thicker when cold than at 100degC but the clever stuff (due to synthetics again) is that the chemists are able to build these oils out of molecules that do not thin to less than 14cst at 100degC!

What are the parameters for our recommendations?
Well, we always talk about good cold start protection, by this we mean flow so a 5w will flow better than a 10w and so on. This is why we recommend 5w or 10w as the thickest you want to use except in exceptional circumstances. Flow is critical to protect the engine from wear!

We also talk about oil temps, mods and what the car is used for. This is related to the second number xw-(XX) as there may be issues with oil temperatures causing the oil to be too thin and therefore the possibility of metal to metal contact.

This is difficult to explain but, if for example your oil temp does not exceed 120degC at any time then a good "shear stable" sae 40 is perfectly capable of giving protection.

"Shear stability" is important here because if the oil shears it thins and that's not good!

However, if you are seeing temperatures in excess of 120degC due to mods and track use etc then there is a strong argument to using an sae 50 as it will have more viscosity at these excessive temperatures.

There are trade offs here. Thicker oils cause more friction and therefore more heat and they waste power and affect fuel consumption so it's always best to use the thinnest oil (i.e. second number) that you can get away with and still maintain oil pressure.

I hope this helps explain a bit.

Nice copy and paste :p
 
  200 cup (van blanc)
Because its good stuff.
I do not believe its up to the job

i am the customer, i get what i want
You don't seem to get the concept of fit for purpose. Its its the right approvals then its OK.

I take it you have done much work on oil technologie/ability to know what is good and right for your car and you've worked with or are the Renault design team engineer?
renault service your car to THEIR specification, if you want to have it serviced differently take it somewhere else.
Exactly and accept the problems when you come to try get warently work or goodwll later on.
I cant honestly belive how anal some people are... And acting like they know it when they clearly have no idea.
I know I woulnd't want someone to try show up a Rencualt techie thinking he/she knows better and look like a right fool.
the service advice book for the 197 states 5w 40.
Its sort of right it depends on conditions and the real rule book is th Renault technical manauals which in UK so long as temps stay over -20 degrees then 10-40 is fine. Before anyone says its only OK well 10-40 is only OK as well. There loads of variables.

edde - get a f*****g life - we are all entitled to OUR opinion, isnt that why we have these forums, to express OUR opinion and share knowledge - NOT be ridiculed by arsy 'know it alls' - i am no fool and know when the performance of my car is suffering due to oil that has degraded quicker than it should have BECAUSE IT WAS NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE

i was under the impression this forum was supposed to be a friendly place for like minded petrol heads and renault enthusiasts - not a forum for ridicule or belittlement
 
  BMW M4; S1000 RR
edde - get a f*****g life - we are all entitled to OUR opinion, isnt that why we have these forums, to express OUR opinion and share knowledge - NOT be ridiculed by arsy 'know it alls' - i am no fool and know when the performance of my car is suffering due to oil that has degraded quicker than it should have BECAUSE IT WAS NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE

i was under the impression this forum was supposed to be a friendly place for like minded petrol heads and renault enthusiasts - not a forum for ridicule or belittlement

You're telling me you can feel a lack of power when using 10W40 oil ???

If you had a think about it before posting random attacks you'd realise that once warmed, there's no difference between 5W40 and 10W40.
 
  1997 Mk1 Megane 2.0 16v
i cant honestly believe someone is daft enough to: -

a) ask a dealers parts personnel to get parts for a car, i know of two who know what theyre doing out of all the dealers i deal with on a day to day basis, the rest are about as much use as a chocolate hammer, and

b) order parts from a dealer, when cheaper and in some cases better parts are avaiable from any motorfactors, especially seen as renault dont normally bother with renault oil they just use castrol or a similar product, although im only talking on the experience i have of dealers i know here.
 
Last edited:
  200 cup (van blanc)
edde - get a f*****g life - we are all entitled to OUR opinion, isnt that why we have these forums, to express OUR opinion and share knowledge - NOT be ridiculed by arsy 'know it alls' - i am no fool and know when the performance of my car is suffering due to oil that has degraded quicker than it should have BECAUSE IT WAS NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE

i was under the impression this forum was supposed to be a friendly place for like minded petrol heads and renault enthusiasts - not a forum for ridicule or belittlement

You're telling me you can feel a lack of power when using 10W40 oil ???

If you had a think about it before posting random attacks you'd realise that once warmed, there's no difference between 5W40 and 10W40.

at what point did i say 'lack of power'?

i give up
 
  Chelsea tractor
edde - get a f*****g life - we are all entitled to OUR opinion, isnt that why we have these forums, to express OUR opinion and share knowledge - NOT be ridiculed by arsy 'know it alls' - i am no fool and know when the performance of my car is suffering due to oil that has degraded quicker than it should have BECAUSE IT WAS NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE
If you knew anything about oil, or indeed s.14 of the Sale of Goods Act I really doubt you would have made that comment. Grow up. Undoubtedly Edde knows a fair bit more than you; accept it and move on.
 
  BMW M4; S1000 RR
edde - get a f*****g life - we are all entitled to OUR opinion, isnt that why we have these forums, to express OUR opinion and share knowledge - NOT be ridiculed by arsy 'know it alls' - i am no fool and know when the performance of my car is suffering due to oil that has degraded quicker than it should have BECAUSE IT WAS NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE

i was under the impression this forum was supposed to be a friendly place for like minded petrol heads and renault enthusiasts - not a forum for ridicule or belittlement

You're telling me you can feel a lack of power when using 10W40 oil ???

If you had a think about it before posting random attacks you'd realise that once warmed, there's no difference between 5W40 and 10W40.

at what point did i say 'lack of power'?

i give up

You yourself said you're not a fool. So I am going out on a limb that you realise engine oil isn't going to affect the handling or braking of the car. The only other element of performance is acceleration and top speed. (Or power for short:))..
 


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