The everlasting ph1 ITB Build **GREEN-BUILD STARTS AT PAGE 100**

[Nafoff]

UPDATE:
I have various niggles to sort on the car, one of which is the rear lights. I had previously spoken with @Coops Mk1about this and he suggested it might be the pins need tightening in the connector, however when trying this yesterday it made no difference.

I am thinking it may either be a duff circuit board in the light shorting/crossing it somehow, or it is possibly that the loom is for the phase 2 and it needs changing over. This is what I currently get.

This is with the lights on (NO INDICATORS)

and this is with the indicator on (right side, left side indicator does not work)

I have a diagram to show what wires to change if it has to gio phase1 to phase2 but first I need to work out if that is the problem, any suggestions?
Does anyone have any pictures of the rear lights on a phase 2 so I know what illuminates for what? or even how the pins pop in and out?

 

[NorthloopCup]

Send me a pic of the plug and I should be able to see how you get the pins out

 

[Eddie555]

I'd have a good look at the earths.. i stripped my rear loom back recently to remove bits and pieces.. You will find that the earths all go back to 1 point where they are all butted together into 1 junction, i seem to remember it was over to the passenger side about 10 inches or so from the passenger side rear light cluster back towards the wheel arch..Dodgy earths cause all manner of weird and wonderful stuff..

Sent from my SM-G977B using Tapatalk

 

[Nafoff]

I'd have a good look at the earths.. i stripped my rear loom back recently to remove bits and pieces.. You will find that the earths all go back to 1 point where they are all butted together into 1 junction, i seem to remember it was over to the passenger side about 10 inches or so from the passenger side rear light cluster back towards the wheel arch..Dodgy earths cause all manner of weird and wonderful stuff..

Sent from my SM-G977B using Tapatalk

Pretty sure they are good as when the car came back from paint I stripped the earth points. But I will double check for sure.

 

[Nafoff]

UPDATE:
So I am now back as a paid up member, there are whole area's of the forum that didn't exist last time I was a member......

As for the car, well I don't think I am any closer to sorting the lights, although I may have another phase1 board on the way.
I checked the earths and they were all good. i then checked through the wiring going into the plugs.

This confused me a bit as none of the colours or location of wires corresponded with the 2 diagrams I have (for ph1 or ph2).
After speaking with (and I am sure annoying) @NorthloopCup and @Coops Mk1 I think I have a plan of action.

Pretty sure there is a short in one of the circuit boards as I was reminded when I checked it a while back that the issue was resolved when we used the good board on both sides (I need to double check this). The colours of the wires are obviously different as this was a complete new loom but I think that the black and white wires are as per previous (black - earth and white is side/position lights).

I was debating getting ph2 boards and using them in the phase 1 lights but apparently they do not clip in (would only be retained by being sandwiched when the light is screwed back in). I also debated all new phase 2 lights, but I really don't think they will suit this car, and the green...

So as said a newer (2nd hand) phase1 board is on the way, hopefully that replaces the faulty board. I can then look at seeing if there is still an issue with what illuminates/what doesn't and whether I need to de-pin/re-pin the plugs to suit the phase1 lights.

PS. Anyone know if you can get an MOT with no Reverse or Fog light?

 

[NorthloopCup]

UPDATE:
So I am now back as a paid up member, there are whole area's of the forum that didn't exist last time I was a member......

As for the car, well I don't think I am any closer to sorting the lights, although I may have another phase1 board on the way.
I checked the earths and they were all good. i then checked through the wiring going into the plugs.

View attachment 1470775 View attachment 1470776

This confused me a bit as none of the colours or location of wires corresponded with the 2 diagrams I have (for ph1 or ph2).
After speaking with (and I am sure annoying) @NorthloopCup and @Coops Mk1 I think I have a plan of action.

Pretty sure there is a short in one of the circuit boards as I was reminded when I checked it a while back that the issue was resolved when we used the good board on both sides (I need to double check this). The colours of the wires are obviously different as this was a complete new loom but I think that the black and white wires are as per previous (black - earth and white is side/position lights).

I was debating getting ph2 boards and using them in the phase 1 lights but apparently they do not clip in (would only be retained by being sandwiched when the light is screwed back in). I also debated all new phase 2 lights, but I really don't think they will suit this car, and the green...

So as said a newer (2nd hand) phase1 board is on the way, hopefully that replaces the faulty board. I can then look at seeing if there is still an issue with what illuminates/what doesn't and whether I need to de-pin/re-pin the plugs to suit the phase1 lights.

PS. Anyone know if you can get an MOT with no Reverse or Fog light?

Needs a rear fog for mot otherwise it’s a fail. Pretty sure it needs to be in the right lamp too. Failing that, in the middle.

 

[KitsonRis]

Anyone know if you can get an MOT with no Reverse or Fog light?

I am certain my step dad's old kit car he built didn't have a reverse light. But then I am sure there are rules about "if it was fitted from new with one then it needs to have it". The giov website is pretty good at searching for all the rules and that.

Also I may have missed it have you tried swapping the rear lights over to see if you can move the fault from one side to another? I used that method to figure out that it was a bad earth on the one side of my old Ph1 and also a similar method to find a bad injector.

 

[Daz...]

You don’t need reverse lights for an mot.

Unless it’s changed recently that is.

 

[Nafoff]

Needs a rear fog for mot otherwise it’s a fail. Pretty sure it needs to be in the right lamp too. Failing that, in the middle.

Well thats a pain, unless the MOT tester is very kind. I wonder if I wire up a rainlight on the cage to use as a fog.

You don’t need reverse lights for an mot. Unless it’s changed recently that is.

Good news.

I am certain my step dad's old kit car he built didn't have a reverse light. But then I am sure there are rules about "if it was fitted from new with one then it needs to have it". The giov website is pretty good at searching for all the rules and that.

Also I may have missed it have you tried swapping the rear lights over to see if you can move the fault from one side to another? I used that method to figure out that it was a bad earth on the one side of my old Ph1 and also a similar method to find a bad injector.

Just looking at this - https://www.gov.uk/guidance/mot-ins...ivate-passenger-and-light-commercial-vehicles
Will make for some interesting reading.

I did indeed use the other side light board to test a little while ago and had forgotten.

 

[Nafoff]

Makes for some interesting reading...

You must inspect all reversing lamps fitted to vehicles first used from 1 September 2009 other than quadricycles and Class 3 vehicles.
- This is fine as mine is a 2000 (W) reg

You only need to inspect: The 1 rear fog lamp which must be fitted to the centre or offside of vehicles first used on or after 1 April 1980
Front and rear fog lamps are permitted to operate independently of any other lamps or ignition systems.
Rear fog lamps may be combined with the rear position lamps. A ‘light source’ means any bulb, LED or other means of emitting light.
So seems like I do need one,

 

[Chambers_RS]

My 08 Leon has LHD rear fog lamp instead of the RHD reverse light (show reverse light is red) and it passes MOT, so you’ll be ok on that

 

[NorthloopCup]

Well thats a pain, unless the MOT tester is very kind. I wonder if I wire up a rainlight on the cage to use as a fog.



Good news.



Just looking at this - https://www.gov.uk/guidance/mot-ins...ivate-passenger-and-light-commercial-vehicles
Will make for some interesting reading.

I did indeed use the other side light board to test a little while ago and had forgotten.

You could make a detachable bracket and attach a rear fog light purely just for mot.

 

[Nafoff]

My 08 Leon has LHD rear fog lamp instead of the RHD reverse light (show reverse light is red) and it passes MOT, so you’ll be ok on that

I don’t have a reverse or fog currently.

You could make a detachable bracket and attach a rear fog light purely just for mot.

A jubilee clip with a small bracket on would work. Would just need to wire it in with an inline switch I guess.

I need to see what is happening with rear lights first, then will consider the fog

 

[NorthloopCup]

I don’t have a reverse or fog currently.



A jubilee clip with a small bracket on would work. Would just need to wire it in with an inline switch I guess.

I need to see what is happening with rear lights first, then will consider the fog

Use the rain light wiring mate. Just extend if required

 

[Nafoff]

Use the rain light wiring mate. Just extend if required

The rain light was re-wired to numberplate light( (as it was similar location) but, what I am thinking now is...

Could I splice out of the position/sidelight wires of one of the rear lights to the rear numberplate light? Then utilise the wire that is currently there for the numberplate light as my fog light loom.

 

[Nafoff]

Or... https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/113718800682

 

[EVO 4LEX]

The rain light was re-wired to numberplate light( (as it was similar location) but, what I am thinking now is...

Could I splice out of the position/sidelight wires of one of the rear lights to the rear numberplate light? Then utilise the wire that is currently there for the numberplate light as my fog light loom.

That’s exactly what I would do.

 

[Nafoff]

UPDATE:
Its like 1 step forward and 2 back....
The minefield that is handbrake cables. I have done a search and am none the wiser.... Am I just meant to be using 182/172 or 172 cup items?

I have 2 new Pagid handbrake lines from ECP. 1380mm drivers and 1323mm passenger. The drivers side seems to fit, the passenger does not (as it has the wrong clip, but is possibly the right length). I need to confirm if the drivers side is correct, and/or what passenger side I need.

Reading in another thread it seems that Pagid measure inside the end caps (which might make the drivers side right).

These are my notes so far:

Driver Side
Full length of old items on car - 1401mm
Received Pagid item from ECP (PN: 108745618) - 1380mm

Firstline list length as -1450mm

Passenger
Full length of old items on car - 1340mm
Received Pagid item from ECP (PN: 108745938) - 1323mm (and wrong clip).

Firstline list length as - 1378mm


Can anybody shed some light on what I should be looking at/part numbers etc?

 

[Nafoff]

UPDATE:
F*cking handbrake cables. Ordered some firstline items after some guidance on facebook (bad idea). Turns out they are too long.

i tried to adjust the mechanism in the car to bring in the slack, there was too much. I have also bottomed out the adjusterhave now had to remove the mechanism as i am going to have to cut the adjuster nut.

so i have actually gone backwards now, pretty cheesed off, i also still have no idea which handbrake cables I need/will fit

 

[Nafoff]

Finally think I have sorted the handbrake cables.... we will see.
I have managed to find out the original Renault Part codes and then matched a couple items on ebay to them.... they have been ordered so we will see what is next.

 

[JamesBryan]

There must be places that will make you up some custom length ones, if it comes to that.

 

[Nafoff]

There must be places that will make you up some custom length ones, if it comes to that.

Possibly, but I am confident with these now.... just need to sort the adjust nut first, hopefully I can work a way to get that off.

 

[JamesBryan]

Possibly, but I am confident with these now.... just need to sort the adjust nut first, hopefully I can work a way to get that off.

Has it seized solid?

 

[Nafoff]

Has it seized solid?

nope, i have wound it in so far that I think it is off the thread as it won’t wind back off/up

 

[1985michael182]

nope, i have wound it in so far that I think it is off the thread as it won’t wind back off/up

Have you removed the handbrake from the car for ease of access?

 

[Nafoff]

Have you removed the handbrake from the car for ease of access?

I have now yes. Was either going to cut the nut off or try and pressure it upwards whilst trying to wind it back on the thread

 

[Nafoff]

Just leaving this here.... a little bit of inspiration I guess of what it will look like once done and on its wheels.

*Makes a good avatar too

 

[Nafoff]

That above post... yeah need that inspiration right now....

UPDATE:
F*cking car..... It is hard to feel positive when you spend a whole evening/night working on something and you only find the fault but can't rectify it yet....

HANDBRAKE CABLES
So I managed to get the B4STARD nut on the handbrake off.... (and put a screwdriver in my finger)
and then bolted it back in the car with a better/bigger nut to stop the problem next time

The saga continues with the cable though after receiving 2 new cables from my online ebay order.
When the order arrived it came in 2 packages from 2 different locations - strange. Also it seems that one of the items (The Borg and Beck BKB 2605) had already been fitted to another vehicle as it was dirty and the clip collar broken.

Despite the above issue I am very much struggling to find the parts that fit correctly. I have previously ordered the wrong parts from the same company and also ECP. I now know the OE Renault part numbers being 6000073539 and 6000073540 but this isn't seeming to help as that matches to these parts but the inner cables of these items seem to fit, however the outer cable (where they clip into the body and the calliper) are too short (images attached). I am very much at a loose end currently with the handbrake cables.

Onto the next thing....

LIGHTS
When the car was put together in Milton Keynes with the help of BigAsh we test the lights and they were ok. This made the loss of the passenger side indicators quite strange. We thought this may be an easy fix, but last night proved otherwise. Trying to find this fault left us on a wild goose chase for basically 5hrs with socially distanced over the phone tech support from @NorthloopCup for 2 of those 5hrs.

We spent a lot of time trying to minimise options for the fault that meant disconnecting and isolating certain areas of the loom etc, however we were still getting the same reading. Having almost disconnected everything from the cars loom/power we then realised we had a duff power probe and this was causing or issue of a mis-reading (WILD GEESE EVERYWHERE). This then quickly led us to the real issue which turned out to be the left indicator switch on the steering wheel panel - well the pin connection where the loom goes from the steering wheel loom into the dash mount. - I now need to look at (probably expensive) options to solve/sort this....

I am sure once that is sorted the indicator will be back and then we will need to figure the bulbs on the rear lights - I may try and pick up some phase2 rears to help with this if there are any cheap enough anywhere.


Feeling very like I had accomplished nothing (apart from finding a fault) I looked at doing another prep job.
Since the wheels had been to powdercoat I needed to take that coating off the bolt holes and the rear, some dremel action and some graft with office hands saw to this... now to wax/polish and seal them.

At least something went right...

 

[Nafoff]

EDIT ON THE ABOVE: Just looking on ECP and I think I am going to try another set from there if I can somehow order it... at £10 for 2 sets and 1 year returns it seems silly not to try.

Although it says no collections or delivery options... lol

 

[NorthloopCup]

Strokin the dolphin 😂

 

[barnesautos]

@Nafoff .
Have you seen my picture I did of the handbrake cables .

I have a Ph1 Clio and I purchased First Line and fitted straight in .
I know these can be an absolute ass to find the right ones .

I hope this helps .

 

[barnesautos]

@Nafoff .
Have you seen my picture I did of the handbrake cables .

I have a Ph1 Clio and I purchased First Line and fitted straight in .
I know these can be an absolute ass to find the right ones .

View attachment 1476983

I hope this helps .

What I ordered and fitted.
So my OE part numbers were
6000 073 734 = 3335
6000 073 735 = 3334

 

[Nafoff]

@Nafoff .
Have you seen my picture I did of the handbrake cables .

I have a Ph1 Clio and I purchased First Line and fitted straight in .
I know these can be an absolute ass to find the right ones .

View attachment 1476983

I hope this helps .

i hadn’t seen this, you have a very similar sheet of notes to me, ha. Infact I have a sheet like this and a spreadsheet 😂

 

[Nafoff]

What I ordered and fitted.
So my OE part numbers were
6000 073 734 = 3335
6000 073 735 = 3334

View attachment 1476984

Not all heros wear capes 😜
I think your the first person with a phase 1 to actually have a suggestion.

i have been speaking with Parts in Motion on ebay who have supplied 2 previous pairs and they had just suggested 3335 and 3334. I thought by the measurements given they would be 30mm and 37mm too long but it sounds like you did alright - i might have to gamble.

this comes at the right time as i have been speaking to ECP for about a week and they have been f*cking useless with pretty bad customer service too, it doesn’t help that there is only one of the parts in thewhole country either

 

[barnesautos]

Not all heros wear capes [emoji12]
I think your the first person with a phase 1 to actually have a suggestion.

i have been speaking with Parts in Motion on ebay who have supplied 2 previous pairs and they had just suggested 3335 and 3334. I thought by the measurements given they would be 30mm and 37mm too long but it sounds like you did alright - i might have to gamble.

this comes at the right time as i have been speaking to ECP for about a week and they have been f*cking useless with pretty bad customer service too, it doesn’t help that there is only one of the parts in thewhole country either

Glad I could be of some help .

I had many head aches working it out . Thankfully I’m a tight cnut and didn’t want to spend out to find I would have incorrect parts .
I ultimately removed them off the motor and took a gamble lol.

Also one thing for the Ph1 owners to bear in mind is that these do actually have two different types of handbrake lever and it gets confusing when ordering cables .
Just something to not over look [emoji102] eh.

 

[Nafoff]

Glad I could be of some help .

I had many head aches working it out . Thankfully I’m a tight cnut and didn’t want to spend out to find I would have incorrect parts .
I ultimately removed them off the motor and took a gamble lol.

Also one thing for the Ph1 owners to bear in mind is that these do actually have two different types of handbrake lever and it gets confusing when ordering cables .
Just something to not over look [emoji102] eh.

As mentioned these look to be 30/37mm too long respectively however.
Did you have to significantly tighten down the adjuster inside the car/on the handbrake?

And what handbrake mech do you have in the car, the early ph1 handbrake mech?

 

[barnesautos]

Did you have to significantly tighten down the adjuster inside the car/on the handbrake?

No , as the cable are correct it adjusts up as it should do to spec .
I did read your post a saw you had excess play in adjuster due to to long a cable.

 

[Nafoff]

No , as the cable are correct it adjusts up as it should do to spec .
I did read your post a saw you had excess play in adjuster due to to long a cable.

Adjuster is all good again now with a new nut on it,
It was just that 30mm/37mm on the cables you mentioned that concerned me, but you have advised it and so have Parts in Motion so perhaps I should gamble again.... 4th time lucky

 

[barnesautos]

Adjuster is all good again now with a new nut on it,
It was just that 30mm/37mm on the cables you mentioned that concerned me, but you have advised it and so have Parts in Motion so perhaps I should gamble again.... 4th time lucky

Let’s hope it gets sorted once and for all [emoji1303] and then you can move on.

Great build by the way .

I will take time to have a read from the beginning [emoji1303]

 

[Nafoff]

Let’s hope it gets sorted once and for all [emoji1303] and then you can move on. Great build by the way . I will take time to have a read from the beginning [emoji1303]

I will get those ordered - desperate for the car to go back down on its wheels.
Thank you for the kind words - not bad for a garage build by someone who doesn't have a clue... don't waste too much of your life though - maybe start at page 100