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The trials & tribulations of racing a Clio
- Thread starter robzracing
- Start date
robzracing
ClioSport Club Member
I’m competing in the CSCC (Classic and Sports Car Club) Tin Tops series.
Open to all NA cars up to 2.0. The Clios have their own class B.
Class A tends to be populated by Honda Civics, Integras and the odd Ford Focus.
Class C is Fiestas, D is for cars from 1.5 to 2.0, E is 1.2 to 1.5 and F is below 1.2.
That’s roughly it I think.
No weight limits or power limits but the cars must run on the manufacturers engines (although they can be tuned but not over bored/stroked), no sequential boxes and no slicks.
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Open to all NA cars up to 2.0. The Clios have their own class B.
Class A tends to be populated by Honda Civics, Integras and the odd Ford Focus.
Class C is Fiestas, D is for cars from 1.5 to 2.0, E is 1.2 to 1.5 and F is below 1.2.
That’s roughly it I think.
No weight limits or power limits but the cars must run on the manufacturers engines (although they can be tuned but not over bored/stroked), no sequential boxes and no slicks.
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RuskiWeldFab
ClioSport Club Member
Clio 172, RS4 B7
robzracing
ClioSport Club Member
Nope. There is a separate series just started this year. Turbo Tin Tops. But only for cars that were either turbo or supercharged at production.
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
RuskiWeldFab
ClioSport Club Member
Clio 172, RS4 B7
Kev@KAM
ClioSport Trader
Badass Toyota
How about some Time Attack? Its more akin to sprinting and rallying as you are racing against the clock but its good fun. Its what I'm building a car for for next season
RuskiWeldFab
ClioSport Club Member
Clio 172, RS4 B7
Yeah was thinking that actually. Probably a bit safer as well lol. Where can I read more info on the series?
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Kev@KAM
ClioSport Trader
Badass Toyota
Their website has a good overview of the series. You will get a better feel for it by going to an event though!
If you need the current rules I can fire them over - drop me a pm.
robzracing
ClioSport Club Member
Last week was a good week!
Up at Silverstone Dan at AME was suitably impressed with the engine after it's first run on the dyno and after a bit of fettling in the map managed to gain another 5bhp. It all helps!
After lunch we worked solely on the geometry, removing my toe out shims at the rear and dialling in 10' of toe out at the front. Camber remained the same and with the newly sprung and valved dampers we set everything to a mid point; disconnected the ARBs and corner weighted it.
Once done I headed home to get ready for Brands Hatch the following day.
Wednesday was to be the first time Dan had driven the car although he is an accomplished racer it was going to be interesting to get yet another point of view on the car's driving characteristics.
And I'm glad to say he loved it! The comments were that it was the nicest, most well balanced car he had ever driven around Brands. Whether he was just being flattering I don't know, but I do know that the car certainly did feel the best it has ever felt around Brands and by far the most stable since the rebuild.
With new wheels and tyres as well the car now feels noticeably more lively.
Sadly, despite Dan's best efforts at tweaking the map we couldn't stop the pops and bangs from tripping their noise meter. So by lunch time we were sent home.
It didn't matter though, we had both settled into the car and were feeling ready for the race.
So Sunday was an early start but by 8am I was all set up in the paddock and ready for scrutineering.
Once signed on and scrutineered without incident we went in to Qualifying at midday feeling hopeful.
I went out first and quickly put us on provisional pole which then slipped to 5th after some of the quicker cars got up to speed. And then I had the first "Doh" moment of the day as the car began to run out of fuel! We had completely forgotten to top it up before going out.
Thankfully some kind gents in one of the pit garages who had just finished their qualifying session gave us 5ltrs to get Dan out and try and set a decent time.
Which he duly did, sticking us in 3rd with a 55.1s.
Sadly at the end of the session we were demoted back to 5th as he had exceeded track limits during that lap so it was disallowed. No matter, in a grid of 31 cars I was well happy with 5th!
As the track temperature went over 40degrees tyre pressures were going to be critical but having monitored them carefully on Wednesday on an albeit cooler day, we had a fair idea of where they needed to be. Left hand front was set at 17psi! But we knew it would get up to temp and pressure in no time in the heat.
Also during the qualifying we were experiencing increasing amounts of vibration through the compression at the bottom of paddock hill bend which we attributed to the drive shaft hitting the diff. It's something I've experienced before and the solution is simple. Undo all the engine mounts, get a large breaker bar and lever the engine over and tighten everything up. Job done and it cured it for the race.
But also while checking over the car my 14 year old daughter spotted fuel dripping under the car from the spare wheel well. Popping off the swirl pot cover revealed a mess of melted paint and fuel from a leaking union on the filter. Some PTFE and a load of wasted fuel later and all was good. Thank god for young eyes!
At race time it was decided that I would start and this would be my first rolling start. But we had decided that all we needed was the class win which we were fairly confident of as long as we finished. So it was to be a cautious start with no heroics and being on the inside of the track I was fairly safe from being punted in to the gravel on the first corner.
The race went well...
And this picture tells it all..
3rd overall and 1st in class (by 2 clear laps!)
And as the winner was BTCC driver Mike Bushell I'm even tempted to disregard 1st place and call it a 2nd!
In any event, this was my first podium and we were rather pleased.
A few things to do before my next race at Donington. The car will not start when it's hot. the battery just doesn't have enough juice, so I'm going to relocate it from the back of the car to just in front of the gear lever if I can, shortening the cable considerably and also lowering it in the car which is no bad thing. If that doesn't work then it's going to need a bigger battery.
I also need to look again at my brake combination. The DS1.11 are very agressive and the discs are looking very sorry for themselves. I may just skim them and resign myself to doing this regularly; either that or accept that the discs will be as much a sacrificial part as the pads are.
Also, pedal was getting soft towards the end so may look at a different fluid too.
Gearbox is also deteriorating with syncro in 4th showing signs of ware and the oil leak from the drive shaft and also the selector getting progressively worse. I was hoping it would last until the end of the season but I'm going to think about doing it now, which will also mean a diff rebuild.
other than that it's just small non essential things on the list which I will do as and when. For the moment I shall just be basking in the glory and telling anyone who will listen about my weekend!
Up at Silverstone Dan at AME was suitably impressed with the engine after it's first run on the dyno and after a bit of fettling in the map managed to gain another 5bhp. It all helps!
After lunch we worked solely on the geometry, removing my toe out shims at the rear and dialling in 10' of toe out at the front. Camber remained the same and with the newly sprung and valved dampers we set everything to a mid point; disconnected the ARBs and corner weighted it.
Once done I headed home to get ready for Brands Hatch the following day.
Wednesday was to be the first time Dan had driven the car although he is an accomplished racer it was going to be interesting to get yet another point of view on the car's driving characteristics.
And I'm glad to say he loved it! The comments were that it was the nicest, most well balanced car he had ever driven around Brands. Whether he was just being flattering I don't know, but I do know that the car certainly did feel the best it has ever felt around Brands and by far the most stable since the rebuild.
With new wheels and tyres as well the car now feels noticeably more lively.
Sadly, despite Dan's best efforts at tweaking the map we couldn't stop the pops and bangs from tripping their noise meter. So by lunch time we were sent home.
It didn't matter though, we had both settled into the car and were feeling ready for the race.
So Sunday was an early start but by 8am I was all set up in the paddock and ready for scrutineering.
Once signed on and scrutineered without incident we went in to Qualifying at midday feeling hopeful.
I went out first and quickly put us on provisional pole which then slipped to 5th after some of the quicker cars got up to speed. And then I had the first "Doh" moment of the day as the car began to run out of fuel! We had completely forgotten to top it up before going out.
Thankfully some kind gents in one of the pit garages who had just finished their qualifying session gave us 5ltrs to get Dan out and try and set a decent time.
Which he duly did, sticking us in 3rd with a 55.1s.
Sadly at the end of the session we were demoted back to 5th as he had exceeded track limits during that lap so it was disallowed. No matter, in a grid of 31 cars I was well happy with 5th!
As the track temperature went over 40degrees tyre pressures were going to be critical but having monitored them carefully on Wednesday on an albeit cooler day, we had a fair idea of where they needed to be. Left hand front was set at 17psi! But we knew it would get up to temp and pressure in no time in the heat.
Also during the qualifying we were experiencing increasing amounts of vibration through the compression at the bottom of paddock hill bend which we attributed to the drive shaft hitting the diff. It's something I've experienced before and the solution is simple. Undo all the engine mounts, get a large breaker bar and lever the engine over and tighten everything up. Job done and it cured it for the race.
But also while checking over the car my 14 year old daughter spotted fuel dripping under the car from the spare wheel well. Popping off the swirl pot cover revealed a mess of melted paint and fuel from a leaking union on the filter. Some PTFE and a load of wasted fuel later and all was good. Thank god for young eyes!
At race time it was decided that I would start and this would be my first rolling start. But we had decided that all we needed was the class win which we were fairly confident of as long as we finished. So it was to be a cautious start with no heroics and being on the inside of the track I was fairly safe from being punted in to the gravel on the first corner.
The race went well...
And this picture tells it all..
3rd overall and 1st in class (by 2 clear laps!)
And as the winner was BTCC driver Mike Bushell I'm even tempted to disregard 1st place and call it a 2nd!
In any event, this was my first podium and we were rather pleased.
A few things to do before my next race at Donington. The car will not start when it's hot. the battery just doesn't have enough juice, so I'm going to relocate it from the back of the car to just in front of the gear lever if I can, shortening the cable considerably and also lowering it in the car which is no bad thing. If that doesn't work then it's going to need a bigger battery.
I also need to look again at my brake combination. The DS1.11 are very agressive and the discs are looking very sorry for themselves. I may just skim them and resign myself to doing this regularly; either that or accept that the discs will be as much a sacrificial part as the pads are.
Also, pedal was getting soft towards the end so may look at a different fluid too.
Gearbox is also deteriorating with syncro in 4th showing signs of ware and the oil leak from the drive shaft and also the selector getting progressively worse. I was hoping it would last until the end of the season but I'm going to think about doing it now, which will also mean a diff rebuild.
other than that it's just small non essential things on the list which I will do as and when. For the moment I shall just be basking in the glory and telling anyone who will listen about my weekend!
Attachments
donnylad
ClioSport Club Member
brilliant thread, loving this!
what is the cost of the racing per year roughly do you know? It is something I would be interested in but I fell wont be able to afford!
what is the cost of the racing per year roughly do you know? It is something I would be interested in but I fell wont be able to afford!
robzracing
ClioSport Club Member
brilliant thread, loving this!
what is the cost of the racing per year roughly do you know? It is something I would be interested in but I fell wont be able to afford!
Thanks mate. I try and allow about £1k per weekend. That covers race entry, fuel, accommodation, and sometimes a test day.
Some weekends are cheaper and some are more.
Tyres last a couple of weekends.
And of course this all assumes you have a functioning race car!
2 years ago I burned through £20k and barely finished a race!
But a lot of people do it for much less than that.
Race entry is £385 and what you spend from there is completely up to you.
It’s cheaper to buy a ready built race car than build one. There are quite a few ktec 182 cars for sale and they’re a good starting point.
Pm me if you need any more info.
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JamesBryan
ClioSport Club Member
Running some camber here aren't you! What is that -3.5 - 4 degrees?
robzracing
ClioSport Club Member
Yep, -4 degrees on the front, -2 on the rear
robzracing
ClioSport Club Member
A bit slow in updating this but nothing much to show yet. Lots of planning going on.
I've begun weightsaving phase 2. starting with ordering a plastic rear screen (not due until mid September!) and also some new Starrett hole saws to tackle the doors and lose a bit more weight out of them. Interestingly the doors currently have carbon fibre door cards fitted, but despite the material they are 1.1 kg each, which is weight that is easily lost.
There's quite a bit more metal I can lose out of the doors, so in the absence of anyone making a decent fibreglass door at the moment I'll go as far as I can with these.
I've also binned the existing wingmirrors which were originally motorised and ordered a pair of manual mirrors from a 1.2 Clio. They haven't arrived yet so I don't know what weight saving will be made but I expect it will be a bit as these mirrors feel very heavy.
And finally, the bonnet.
I've had another bonnet sitting in the workshop for a couple of years that has already had the inner skin cut out. It was a bit tatty and the bonnet pin holes were in the wrong place for this car so I had never used it.
My existing bonnet weighs 11.3kg. My de-skinned bonnet weighs 8.3kg. However, as this bonnet isn't perfect I decided to order a fibreglass one which is 5kg apparently. It arrived today, so that's first on the list once I'm back from holiday.
de-skinned bonnet offered up.
waiting for fibreglass.
Other than moving the battery this will be the extent of the work before Donington in September.
Phase 3 of the weight loss will be the dash and heater. This will be much more complicated with lots of wiring to sort out and possibly fitting of a heated screen. So probably at the end of the season.
I've begun weightsaving phase 2. starting with ordering a plastic rear screen (not due until mid September!) and also some new Starrett hole saws to tackle the doors and lose a bit more weight out of them. Interestingly the doors currently have carbon fibre door cards fitted, but despite the material they are 1.1 kg each, which is weight that is easily lost.
There's quite a bit more metal I can lose out of the doors, so in the absence of anyone making a decent fibreglass door at the moment I'll go as far as I can with these.
I've also binned the existing wingmirrors which were originally motorised and ordered a pair of manual mirrors from a 1.2 Clio. They haven't arrived yet so I don't know what weight saving will be made but I expect it will be a bit as these mirrors feel very heavy.
And finally, the bonnet.
I've had another bonnet sitting in the workshop for a couple of years that has already had the inner skin cut out. It was a bit tatty and the bonnet pin holes were in the wrong place for this car so I had never used it.
My existing bonnet weighs 11.3kg. My de-skinned bonnet weighs 8.3kg. However, as this bonnet isn't perfect I decided to order a fibreglass one which is 5kg apparently. It arrived today, so that's first on the list once I'm back from holiday.
de-skinned bonnet offered up.
waiting for fibreglass.
Other than moving the battery this will be the extent of the work before Donington in September.
Phase 3 of the weight loss will be the dash and heater. This will be much more complicated with lots of wiring to sort out and possibly fitting of a heated screen. So probably at the end of the season.
donnylad
ClioSport Club Member
Sounds like your making great progress.
For some reason I thought I had read that taking all the ribbing / strength out of the standard bonnet weight about the same as fibreglass, guess I got fed wrong information there!
For some reason I thought I had read that taking all the ribbing / strength out of the standard bonnet weight about the same as fibreglass, guess I got fed wrong information there!
robzracing
ClioSport Club Member
That’s exactly what I’d been told by the guy who cut up the bonnet.
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
robzracing
ClioSport Club Member
Thanks mate. It’s come close a couple of times! I just love it too much. Building the car is as much fun as the actual racing!
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NorthloopCup
ClioSport Moderator
How much has been removed? Reason I ask is my deskinned bonnet weighed in at 6kg, but when I say deskinned, I mean fully deskinned!
robzracing
ClioSport Club Member
NorthloopCup
ClioSport Moderator
I had none of that left on mine mate. Used to flap around like f**k.
robzracing
ClioSport Club Member
I bet it did!!
My fibreglass one has arrived now. It’s so much lighter and still has reinforced captive nuts for the hinges. So I think it was worth it.
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In awe of this build. Personally for me I think you've done a cracking job, looks so so clean. Hats odd to you mate. Don't suppose you have the torque specs/ tolerances for an engine rebuild do you? I'm currently sourcing all the bits and peices to do it in October
robzracing
ClioSport Club Member
Thanks mate, I’ve been very happy with how it’s turning out.
I have 3 A4 sheets of all the torque settings.
I’m on holiday at the moment but I’ll try and remember to DM you when I get back.
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Ok pal, that's much appreciated, enjoy the holiday!
robzracing
ClioSport Club Member
Just a quick update tonight. back from holiday on Friday so cracked on with fitting the fibreglass bonnet.
The fit is good and the finish is certainly good enough for a race car although would need some work for it to be perfect for a road car and especially if it was going in a dark colour. For me it's perfect and a lot better than the bent one I'm replacing!
First job was to lay over the old bonnet and cut out the inner skin where required to clear the airfilter and expose the outer skin for the bonnet catches.
With the right tools, a very simple job!
and a bit of adjustment at the hinges was all that was required. I can improve it a bit more by edjusting the front wings which will come later.
And then on to marking up the catches.
Again, a pretty easy job although the drawings weren't 100% accurate and I could have drilled a smaller opening for them and they still would have fitted.
On to the doors next and replace one of the wings (maybe both) before it goes off to be wrapped into it's colours.
The fit is good and the finish is certainly good enough for a race car although would need some work for it to be perfect for a road car and especially if it was going in a dark colour. For me it's perfect and a lot better than the bent one I'm replacing!
First job was to lay over the old bonnet and cut out the inner skin where required to clear the airfilter and expose the outer skin for the bonnet catches.
With the right tools, a very simple job!
and a bit of adjustment at the hinges was all that was required. I can improve it a bit more by edjusting the front wings which will come later.
And then on to marking up the catches.
Again, a pretty easy job although the drawings weren't 100% accurate and I could have drilled a smaller opening for them and they still would have fitted.
On to the doors next and replace one of the wings (maybe both) before it goes off to be wrapped into it's colours.
robzracing
ClioSport Club Member
Yes mate. Very happy with the bonnet but I haven't ordered his doors because I don't like the way the windows have a lip all round so the plastic windows don't fit as they should. I think it looks a bit odd too. The CM Composites ones were much better. I'm just waiting for someone to start doing better ones, or for Ali to improve his design.
There is a company in Europe doing some but they're on a long lead time and I'm not sure I feel comfortable with the long distance if there are any issues, not to mention the risk of transit damage.
robzracing
ClioSport Club Member
Its a massive reduction in glass size though. I can't deny the finish looks good on this though.
RuskiWeldFab
ClioSport Club Member
Clio 172, RS4 B7
I actually trimmed them a little as I though that edge was a little too big. I am happy with the quality, I managed to alignthem perfectly they close like oem. They do flap a little at the top above 100mph
Honestly I would be hard pressed to NOT recommend them. Can’t see any faults taking in to account they are from fibre glass
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Honestly I would be hard pressed to NOT recommend them. Can’t see any faults taking in to account they are from fibre glass
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robzracing
ClioSport Club Member
I saw that you had trimmed it Ilya, definitely an improvement. Perhaps next year I'll bite the bullet if no alternative turns up. Out of interest how did you deal with the hinges? Am I right in thinking you have to take them off the old doors? Is there a reinforced area here like there is on the bonnet?
Who is it that sells these fiber glass parts?
robzracing
ClioSport Club Member
RuskiWeldFab
ClioSport Club Member
Clio 172, RS4 B7
There are 2 ways (maybe 3) you can go about it. Buy new hinges from Renault for about £120ish
Cut from your old doors
Or a third way is if you find some dented old doors somewhere to cut from them and sell yours. Doors even in good condition don’t go for much this days, certainly not more than £120. So unless you find some junk doors to butcher, I would use your old ones, keep all parts that are salvageable and scrap the rest.
I made little plates to go on the inside with captive nuts to reinforce.
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robzracing
ClioSport Club Member
That looks straight forward enough. I have a few spare hinges and a couple of extra doors so maybe I'll concede over the winter and get it done.
In the meantime I'm going to cut as much metal as I can out of the existing doors and along with the lexan rear screen due in a couple of weeks that will have to do for the rest of the season.
robzracing
ClioSport Club Member
Made some progress with the doors today.
A couple of years ago I had cut a fair bit of metal out of the doors but decided to see how far I could go to get them as light as possible without losing too much rigidity.
The standard doors with glass and trims removed weigh 19.8kg. I had already got mine down to 18.3kg.
Today I managed to get them down to 14.48kg which will do for now. There probably is more I could do but along with the new bonnet, manual mirrors and a few other bits I have so far taken another 17.1kg out of the car. Once the lexan rear window arrives the car should be a good bit lighter for Donington.
Seeing how far I could go with the old door
And getting silly with the hole saws.
Dimple Die only worked on the side holes unfortunately.
Still lots of tidying to do and need to make a door release pull somehow too.
And finally, started to make some space to relocate the battery. Not exactly where I'd like it but I think this will do. It will at least be lower in the car and most importantly, have a shorter cable run.
A couple of years ago I had cut a fair bit of metal out of the doors but decided to see how far I could go to get them as light as possible without losing too much rigidity.
The standard doors with glass and trims removed weigh 19.8kg. I had already got mine down to 18.3kg.
Today I managed to get them down to 14.48kg which will do for now. There probably is more I could do but along with the new bonnet, manual mirrors and a few other bits I have so far taken another 17.1kg out of the car. Once the lexan rear window arrives the car should be a good bit lighter for Donington.
Seeing how far I could go with the old door
And getting silly with the hole saws.
Dimple Die only worked on the side holes unfortunately.
Still lots of tidying to do and need to make a door release pull somehow too.
And finally, started to make some space to relocate the battery. Not exactly where I'd like it but I think this will do. It will at least be lower in the car and most importantly, have a shorter cable run.
robzracing
ClioSport Club Member
Not quite as much as I hoped to be honest. Electric ones weigh 770g, manual ones 650g
