182cup & 172 racecar
Yeah yeah yeah.
Anyway, this is Petes thread.
Anyway, this is Petes thread.
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Toastfrenzy's Tin Top, some say...........
- Thread starter Toastfrenzy
- Start date
Yeah my bad Pete. I'll see if a mod can move it to the production series thread.
182cup & 172 racecar
Good luck Sunday Pete.
Likewise Pete, hope the car is at its best 
Likewise Pete, hope the car is at its best
Cheers!!
Been a manic day - came home on Thursday and sorted the horses - first thing I do after getting in from work. It's dark now so off I walk up the field with a little led light on, to show me the way (you know the rest). Anyway get to Fivers (H & S's pony) field - gate open. Oh, not to worry caught the reflection of a horses eye in the torch light, walk over and it's Kevin..Sams horse -who should be in a field 1\4 mile away. Hmmm... finally caught Fiver in the big hay field, walked past Kevin's field and saw that he'd brought quite a lot of the fencing down. Wasn't even windy, the storm was Sunday-Monday so haven't a clue what happened or how one of them managed to open Fivers gate.
Had to spend most of today repairing the fencing, have electric and wooden rails so not a five minute job. All this left about 2 hours to get the Cup ready for tomorrow's race. Glad I gave it a sort of once over when doing the gearbox the other week - just need some coolant as that was on the min mark, not a show stopper. See if I can get some tomorrow. Andy Joss now is going so he may have some.
Early start tomorrow, aim to get to Silverstone for 6:30 -7am, 60 miles away so will leave about 5am
sign on at 7:30am
scrut' at 7:55
Q 0900 - 0920
Race 11:15 for 25 mins
Looking forward to it!!
Good luck Pete. Should be an interesting race.
182cup & 172 racecar
Really wish I wasn't going out for lunch, would loved to come and cheer you on Pete.
Have a good one.
Have a good one.
Have a great time Pete
Silverstone 03-10-2013
A mixed day where everything I've learnt sort of went out the window but I started and finished the race so not all bad.
Qualifying
Took my time and put in some good laps 1min 11.08 secs (the pole sitter was on 54 secs) this placed me 17th (1 mini in front and the rest were single seats) on the grid of 23 but class B leader - Had a varying degree of success at most corners all bar Copse went 4 wheels off 3 times which got me an invite to race control. Getting on the right line for Maggots turns out to be crucial, even though it's wide makes you think its easy, racing line is more to the left of the track than I first thought. Brooklands into Luffield saw me a degree slower than you would think but meant a quarter turn on wheel saw me clip the last inside floppy edge marker with little effort, found Luffield (with no one following) easier to go straight for a car length then turn in for a late apex. Tyres took an age to warm up, 8 degrees temp along with a cold strong wind, car went well though still a low down hesitation.
Race
Called 30 mins early then sat around in the assembly area until the normal start time as 5-7 cars didn't get the early call message. Line up on the grid 5 second board red lights on - and then out, get a really good start and pass 2-3 cars - I'm alongside the pit wall thinking the bloke was right who told me the cars on slicks would be slow of the grid today. Hmmm, turn into Copse and instantly loose the back end and slide off to the other side of the track. I sort off manage to keep pointing in the right direction but stall. Meanwhile every one behind manages to miss me, I last saw a Seat Leon heading straight for me and thinking this is going to hurt. Start up and of I go and last again! Get through Maggots and then start getting a misfire mid to high up the rev range I didn't manage to beat my Q lap times because of it - continued as wanted the race signature. I did have an off at Brooklands, which saw me presented with the driving standards flag too. For some reason (nobody behind for miles) put the power down too early under steered towards Luffield, wasn't straight when on the brakes, rear inside wheel on the grass and round I went.
Bit disappointed in the car as even though I went off at Copse I had no chance with a misfiring engine - that said I did catch\pass the back markers who then went back past as I collected some grass.
Not too bad a day really, just have to get the car right, and learn a bit more about cold tyres. Really caught me out today this did, never experienced cold tyres like this before.
I'll sort out the video and pics - left the camera on after Q session and the bat ran out again, so not sure how much of the race I've got hoping the start at least.
Ah got the start of the race at least, though shouldn't be pointing at the Scrutineering bay going round Copse;
A mixed day where everything I've learnt sort of went out the window but I started and finished the race so not all bad.
Qualifying
Took my time and put in some good laps 1min 11.08 secs (the pole sitter was on 54 secs) this placed me 17th (1 mini in front and the rest were single seats) on the grid of 23 but class B leader - Had a varying degree of success at most corners all bar Copse went 4 wheels off 3 times which got me an invite to race control. Getting on the right line for Maggots turns out to be crucial, even though it's wide makes you think its easy, racing line is more to the left of the track than I first thought. Brooklands into Luffield saw me a degree slower than you would think but meant a quarter turn on wheel saw me clip the last inside floppy edge marker with little effort, found Luffield (with no one following) easier to go straight for a car length then turn in for a late apex. Tyres took an age to warm up, 8 degrees temp along with a cold strong wind, car went well though still a low down hesitation.
Race
Called 30 mins early then sat around in the assembly area until the normal start time as 5-7 cars didn't get the early call message. Line up on the grid 5 second board red lights on - and then out, get a really good start and pass 2-3 cars - I'm alongside the pit wall thinking the bloke was right who told me the cars on slicks would be slow of the grid today. Hmmm, turn into Copse and instantly loose the back end and slide off to the other side of the track. I sort off manage to keep pointing in the right direction but stall. Meanwhile every one behind manages to miss me, I last saw a Seat Leon heading straight for me and thinking this is going to hurt. Start up and of I go and last again! Get through Maggots and then start getting a misfire mid to high up the rev range I didn't manage to beat my Q lap times because of it - continued as wanted the race signature. I did have an off at Brooklands, which saw me presented with the driving standards flag too. For some reason (nobody behind for miles) put the power down too early under steered towards Luffield, wasn't straight when on the brakes, rear inside wheel on the grass and round I went.
Bit disappointed in the car as even though I went off at Copse I had no chance with a misfiring engine - that said I did catch\pass the back markers who then went back past as I collected some grass.
Not too bad a day really, just have to get the car right, and learn a bit more about cold tyres. Really caught me out today this did, never experienced cold tyres like this before.
I'll sort out the video and pics - left the camera on after Q session and the bat ran out again, so not sure how much of the race I've got hoping the start at least.
Ah got the start of the race at least, though shouldn't be pointing at the Scrutineering bay going round Copse;
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182cup & 172 racecar
Lol Pete, this will be a good watch.
WRX
I know what you mean about Maggots Pete. When I did Trax, following the pace car for the first lap they went really deep onto the left and then turned back onto the right side of the track. It just felt unnatural as you can carry far more speed into it, if you take an earlier turn in and let it drift out to the left. Obviously affects top end onto the Wellington Straight though, I would imagine.
182cup & 172 racecar
When I had tuition there, the guy told me about the 2 lines through there, obviously one can leave you a little vulnerable to a late lunge, so not to be tried if being followed.
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What was causing the misfire Pete?
Can imagine what the cold tyres are like on somewhere like Silverstone, how did the brakes cope?
Can imagine what the cold tyres are like on somewhere like Silverstone, how did the brakes cope?
Well done Pete another signature. Real shame about the misfire mate you've had nothing but issues this year
Same problem for me today at Cadwell with the cold weather and getting heat into the tyres never felt anything like it!
Same problem for me today at Cadwell with the cold weather and getting heat into the tyres never felt anything like it!
Wasn't only me too hot into the first corner from the start - lucky I got away with my over exuberance.
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It is and I count myself lucky and also lucky not have caused anyone else any damage etc - a case of excitement getting the better of me meaning didn't brake enough for the corner after a good start.
I tried 3 ways - tight defending the apex was the slowest out, part way out sort of defending with a bit of speed and drift out - quicker out but the quickest was deep left and turn in you're more or less straight to the apex so fastest way I found (with no one following of course) but felt wrong as initially you're going away from the tracks natural line which points you towards the corner.
I would say the crank sensor - spoken to Dan and dropping it off next week to be sorted.
Brakes were fine, I was hard on the brakes at first - so avoiding any lock ups as the wheel speed\traction can cope and eased off near to the corner\apex. This does involve a later braking point and faith in your equipment, I was braking between the 50 and 100mtr points for Brooklands the first turn after the Wellington straight (from 3 figure speeds). For my 4 wheels off's at Copse I was braking at the right point but not hard enough and then not using a bit of power to pull me round (due to not braking enough and thinking oh dear!). Find the other way, light application first to progressively harder causes lockups as when you want to slow more the wheel speed is low\traction is low so a lock up will ensue.
I've seen a really good braking effort graph of a driver going into Copse - I'll try and find it.
Found it;
That said I could do with more practice as the feel is totally different from a car with floating disks and AP calipers - I didn't experience any fade or oh sh1t running out of stopping power (but I think I may be not far off requiring something different).
1.11 was 2 secs of Tony's 1.09 Q time in 2012 - so I'm nearly there.
Well done Pete another signature. Real shame about the misfire mate you've had nothing but issues this year
Same problem for me today at Cadwell with the cold weather and getting heat into the tyres never felt anything like it!
Yes mate, I could have got out after the first misfire and Basil Fawltied the car tbh, The problems are still coming but the number is getting less so not too downbeat - Hoping for a better year in 2014 for sure.
I've learnt about cold tyres now and not every day is the same, as that is how I drove the start - like it was summer, the cold wind and many layers should have given me more of a clue, lol.
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Thinking of binning the throttle bodies and getting in on the Roll Centre\bump steer group buy....As I was the fastest in qualifying for the class I was in on Sunday's Sliverstone race - even in front of another ITB Clio that revs to 8.5k - I don't really need more power, better handling and stopping would be of more benefit me thinks.
Sliver trumpets or black hubs (I wonder if they get painted whilst away)?
Sliver trumpets or black hubs (I wonder if they get painted whilst away)?
It would be hubs for me Pete if I had the choice, then sort the running issues you have properly.
182cup & 172 racecar
ITB's you can get at any time Pete, these will be a one off adventure.
The hubs have silver bits too. Like Tony says though and you might find some cheap second hand bodies down the line if you keep your eyes open.
NorthloopCup
ClioSport Moderator
Getting the fundamental geometry correction is THE way forward. You could have 300hp and be the fastest in a straight line, only to have someone give you the bird with 180hp in the bends because they can carry more speed through the corner because their suspension is working correctly.
Its just the simple unfortunate truth. Roll centre correction and bump steer correction is of more benefit than extra hp if it's a choice between one or the other. Do a search online for it and draw your own conclusion pete. I'll try and find some links and post them up if I can, but roll centres are all about leverage effectively.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roll_center
http://www.wheels-inmotion.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=3337
http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=8614
Its just the simple unfortunate truth. Roll centre correction and bump steer correction is of more benefit than extra hp if it's a choice between one or the other. Do a search online for it and draw your own conclusion pete. I'll try and find some links and post them up if I can, but roll centres are all about leverage effectively.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roll_center
http://www.wheels-inmotion.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=3337
http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=8614
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Iknow - hopefully crank sensor will all it'll need.
forgot about being a one off
yes, seen a few for sale recently.
Thanks, explains further what it all means.
Just about to sign up...............
Pete have a look at your crank sensor wire from the ECU is it a shielded cable? All crank/cam sensor cables should be run in shielded cable and if not done then could cause exactly the issue you are having. Not doubting what your wiring chaps have done just a simple thing to eliminate. (Shielded cable is wire with a metal sheath which is earthed and then the usual plastic sheath over)
182cup & 172 racecar
Getting the fundamental geometry correction is THE way forward. You could have 300hp and be the fastest in a straight line, only to have someone give you the bird with 180hp in the bends because they can carry more speed through the corner because their suspension is working correctly.
Its just the simple unfortunate truth. Roll centre correction and bump steer correction is of more benefit than extra hp if it's a choice between one or the other. Do a search online for it and draw your own conclusion pete. I'll try and find some links and post them up if I can, but roll centres are all about leverage effectively.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roll_center
http://www.wheels-inmotion.co.uk/for...showtopic=3337
http://www.f1technical.net/forum/vie...php?f=6&t=8614
I've just tried to read all that, fk!!, just send me the kit anyway.
Perfect
Sorry Dan wasn't meaning to cause offence just wanted to check as I remember Pete saying he had the issue at Cadwellno offence, just explaining as it seemed to be being perceived as a big un-solvable issue. If I manage to get Pete this updated version of the ECU as a part-ex over the winter, it'll never be a problem again if the box has to be swapped out or whatever as the chip that processes the crank signal has been changed for one with better filtering. Renault sensors are the most inconsistent available, so if it sorts that out, it'll do anything. Will have onboard data logging (already had data logging but had to be plugged in to a PC) and now has RaceTech dash support available too
Ahh sounds very good! Yes the Renault crank signal is horrible for ECU's I agree Look forward to seeing how the car does next year will be good to watch everyone and see how they all get on
Look forward to seeing how the car does next year will be good to watch everyone and see how they all get onAhh sounds very good! Yes the Renault crank signal is horrible for ECU's I agree
David at Canems is a bit of a clever bugger. He's got my 197 at the moment to sort out the plug and play kit for that, and he got the dash CAN decoded in about 20 minutes. Even got the starter button strategy fully working within a couple of weeks and that's had a few people stumped for months on end on other systems.
I'm looking forward to next year and Pete having more finishes! it's a shame it had to have so much work done mid season really, but there's always going to be another years racing to look forward to.
Yes there always seems to be one stupidly clever person behind an ECU Sounds like it'll be a good bit of kit Ben was telling me about it a while ago and it sounded good.
Yes it'll come with time as you say never ideal having the car pulled apart mid season so i'm sure next year will be nice and smooth!
Sounds like it'll be a good bit of kit Ben was telling me about it a while ago and it sounded good.Yes it'll come with time as you say never ideal having the car pulled apart mid season so i'm sure next year will be nice and smooth!
Forgot all about the forth coming ECU upgrade, would be good to get the crank sensor so it can just be removed and put back on with no fuss. I did spend an age moving it around after the gearbox was repaired and suspected it wasn't 100% but during the Silverstone qualifying it was fine so didn't give it a 2nd thought - then during the race things went awry for some reason.
The on board data logging of the new ECU will be very handy as will the dash support - not that I'm planning to swap my bespoke dash design just yet.
The on board data logging of the new ECU will be very handy as will the dash support - not that I'm planning to swap my bespoke dash design just yet.
Winter mods\upgrade (of any serious value\content) for 2013 will be the roll centre\bump steer hubs and no TB's.
May be a bit of small part replacement\tweeks but that's about it.
Might try and squeeze in a last test day on the 4th Dec if hubs complete and I can get it to Dan in time, be at either Silverstone(£125) or Snetterton (£95) as both running Test days on the 4th.
May be a bit of small part replacement\tweeks but that's about it.
Might try and squeeze in a last test day on the 4th Dec if hubs complete and I can get it to Dan in time, be at either Silverstone(£125) or Snetterton (£95) as both running Test days on the 4th.
182cup & 172 racecar
Likewise Pete, if I get it all back and on, Silverstone sounds fairly good.
Do Silverstone I'm only 20 mins away from there so I can come watch/help
I'm only 20 mins away from there so I can come watch/help
182cup & 172 racecar
My Oulton race 1 vid is up Mr James.
182cup & 172 racecar
Test = Race suit (lol Pete) overtake anywhere and a race licence.
