Unfortunately an early bath for #17. Homeward bound after 7 laps and won't make it out on Saturday
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Toastfrenzy's Tin Top, some say...........
- Thread starter Toastfrenzy
- Start date
SharkyUK
ClioSport Club Member
Oh no - that doesn't sound good 
I hope it's nothing serious.
I hope it's nothing serious.Wish I was, now at home already.
Oh no - that doesn't sound good
Cheers, something is amiss that's for sure.
Jesus Pete, sorry to hear. What's going on with all the race cars on here?
What's going on with all the race cars on here?
Snetterton 13-03-2014
First test\track day of the year - arrived in good time, could see the Sun so wasn't overly worried about the fog.
All off loaded signed on and everything checked, noise test came in at 95db...lovely.
All temps fine 85-90 for oil and 80 for water, oil press fine too. 3 moderate sighting laps, kept having to turn off the apex - new RC\BS kit sharp and working well, first impression very good and turn in very sharp\precise indeed.
All temps fine, saw just over 90 on oil and just under 90 for water.
Came in checked tyre pressures, oil level, panels etc and went out to start getting to grips with the track. Moderate to fast couple of laps, nothing out of the ordinary, 3rd lap coming onto the back straight, in 3rd gear. Waiting for the shift lights to flash solid - change into 4th reached 6-6.5k revs and then felt a retardation like feeling and engine wouldn't rev any higher. Hmmmm brake for the Esses, into 3rd then short shift to 2nd for the exit - all fine again??? Up to 3rd for the bomb hole, clip the drain cover (apex) and floor it in third, short shift to 4th for Coram...Start finish straight seems all fine and no hesitation so push on. Again on the back straight 6 - 6-5k hesitation felt and no more revs. Hmmm, about to go round the outside of a slower car round Coram when all hell breaks loose - car popping and banging like a good un - the car in front almost stops and the cars behind are like WTF??? As I pull to the right and wave them on....back to the pits.
The only thing I know to do is take the spark plugs out - #4 all ok, #3, #2 & #1 black sooty and minus their electrodes (the bent over things), think the the white enamel is all pitted too on a couple.
So that's where it's at, where this goes from here I don't really know but we won't be spending any more until it's sorted, in what ever shape or form.
First test\track day of the year - arrived in good time, could see the Sun so wasn't overly worried about the fog.
All off loaded signed on and everything checked, noise test came in at 95db...lovely.
All temps fine 85-90 for oil and 80 for water, oil press fine too. 3 moderate sighting laps, kept having to turn off the apex - new RC\BS kit sharp and working well, first impression very good and turn in very sharp\precise indeed.
All temps fine, saw just over 90 on oil and just under 90 for water.
Came in checked tyre pressures, oil level, panels etc and went out to start getting to grips with the track. Moderate to fast couple of laps, nothing out of the ordinary, 3rd lap coming onto the back straight, in 3rd gear. Waiting for the shift lights to flash solid - change into 4th reached 6-6.5k revs and then felt a retardation like feeling and engine wouldn't rev any higher. Hmmmm brake for the Esses, into 3rd then short shift to 2nd for the exit - all fine again??? Up to 3rd for the bomb hole, clip the drain cover (apex) and floor it in third, short shift to 4th for Coram...Start finish straight seems all fine and no hesitation so push on. Again on the back straight 6 - 6-5k hesitation felt and no more revs. Hmmm, about to go round the outside of a slower car round Coram when all hell breaks loose - car popping and banging like a good un - the car in front almost stops and the cars behind are like WTF??? As I pull to the right and wave them on....back to the pits.
The only thing I know to do is take the spark plugs out - #4 all ok, #3, #2 & #1 black sooty and minus their electrodes (the bent over things), think the the white enamel is all pitted too on a couple.
So that's where it's at, where this goes from here I don't really know but we won't be spending any more until it's sorted, in what ever shape or form.
Bloody hell Pete... I dont believe in coincidences... So be interesting to hear what the problem is regarding the plugs, if it is them at fault.
Gutted for you mate.
Thats nearly all the race cars that have had bad luck... Im at a test day next week :/ hope i have had my spate of bad luck.....
Gutted for you mate.
Thats nearly all the race cars that have had bad luck... Im at a test day next week :/ hope i have had my spate of bad luck.....
Hi Sonny, doubt it'll be faulty plugs, they don't really do much other than spark when told. Have to wait and see what Dan say's after he's looked it over, which won't be until after next week.
SharkyUK
ClioSport Club Member
Very sorry to hear that, Pete. As mentioned, it seems that the race cars on here are all suffering to some degree at the moment. I hope you can get to the root of the problem(s) soon and rectify them with minimal time and cost! It's through yourself and others on here that I live the 'because racecar' dream! Good luck fella.
182cup & 172 racecar
Did we all do something wrong?
Is it that the bar has been raised this year, with more cars on the grid, everyone making significant improvements over winter, thus which ever way you look at it, we are trying harder, whether that be driving harder or putting components under more stress to squeeze power????
I'm off to google the word "Tricelore" and see if its jinxed!
I'm off to google the word "Tricelore" and see if its jinxed!
WRX
Is that like Sod'slore then?
Always hated that word "Tricolor'' so you could be on to something
182cup & 172 racecar
Wizardry, thats what it is.
As said on the phone this morning Pete really sorry to hear your troubles continue and if I can do anything to help just shout!
NorthloopCup
ClioSport Moderator
On the upshot of all your bad luck pete, I'm glad that you noticed the initial improvements that the r/c kit has to offer.
WRX
Ahem, room on that podium for another?
182cup & 172 racecar
Mmm, I do have a 182 road car, that wouldn't take long to convert.
Very sorry to hear that, Pete. As mentioned, it seems that the race cars on here are all suffering to some degree at the moment. I hope you can get to the root of the problem(s) soon and rectify them with minimal time and cost! It's through yourself and others on here that I live the 'because racecar' dream! Good luck fella.
Thanks, it's all very disappointing as everyone was expecting big things from our first session of 2014, got the all the temps down, misfire sorted and to end it all after 7 laps was rather crushing!! We do want to try and make it out at Rockingham on the 5th April. Managed to save the track day fee (got a credit) I had booked for today at Rockingham and will put it towards the Friday's 4th April testing if Dan at 519 can resolve Tony's issues and mine in time. We'll enter the race after the testing day - if i make it to the test session and get through the day unscathed!
Nope!
TBH - I wasn't even trying just carrying on as normal - not a great believer in fate - luck whatever - I make my choices and live by them. Doesn't mean I make the correct\right choices but they are informed and not always the easy\easiest route.
Thanks mate - got to catch up with Dan later\this coming week and will go from there.
Hi Mark, yes was really getting some "easy" late braking and turn in's that seemed effort less and filled the experience with a I can do this faster faster faster, later mowwwahahahaha feeling. Wish I had turned the camera and GPS on now, had I known I was only going to do 7 laps I would have!
We'll try and prevent this!!
Hopefully your remote alarm doesn't work in Lanzarote!
I've just watched this..
[video=youtube_share;ofSiTGeLXvc]http://youtu.be/ofSiTGeLXvc[/video]
and now bought this for £45;
Bergen Leak Down Tester.
[video=youtube_share;ofSiTGeLXvc]http://youtu.be/ofSiTGeLXvc[/video]
and now bought this for £45;
Bergen Leak Down Tester.
More bad luck Pete. I feel for you.
I wouldn't have thought a leak down test would show something that would destroy your plugs like that. Do you have a hunch?
I'd have thought it would most likely be det or over heated plugs. Most likely caused by a faulty sensor throwing the fueling/ignition out.
I was thinking of going high comp but you and Tony are not a good advert - although I guess it could be unrelated. There is a lot to be said for throwing in 2nd hand engines with cams and bolting on bodies.
I'm making some progress with mine - I have lights!
I wouldn't have thought a leak down test would show something that would destroy your plugs like that. Do you have a hunch?
I'd have thought it would most likely be det or over heated plugs. Most likely caused by a faulty sensor throwing the fueling/ignition out.
I was thinking of going high comp but you and Tony are not a good advert - although I guess it could be unrelated. There is a lot to be said for throwing in 2nd hand engines with cams and bolting on bodies.
I'm making some progress with mine - I have lights!
Hi Mark, long time no hear!
Yes, more bad times, I was a bit mad to say the least when getting out of the car at Snetterton.
No hunch, as it's obvious where the problem is just want to have a look at a few things myself - to see if the bits off the spark plugs have done any damage on their way out. It's an easy test looking at the video! I'll do the cylinder with the OK spark plug first to get a reference point.
Speaking with Dan yesterday - that's the answer I got Ignition to far advanced at certain points of the throttle. May be my over generalization (on my part) but that's the main problem.
There is a lot to be said for the ease of swapping standard engines and bolting on TB's - it's even something I could do. But reliability of components was something I was after too, don't laugh! None of the component parts have failed so got 50% of what I asked for.
This hasn't been an easy experience - far from it. Snetterton was the 4th day out where we've had unrecoverable on the day issues due to the build.
Dan has taken the car back each time and resolved all the issues without any fuss, no questions. For that I'm very thankful and that does show a lot of maturity\ good customer service as I'm sure other organisations may have washed their hands by now. Goes along way to alleviate the pain of having a problem in the first place.
Of course I'd rather not have the problems in the first place!
NorthloopCup
ClioSport Moderator
You got any pictures of the fucked plug pete?
Hi Mark, not at the moment - but I'll get all 3 of them up at some point over the next few days.
Cub.
ClioSport Moderator
Sorry to see this Pete. It must be frustrating, but stick with it
Yeah normally if plugs are dieing its just poor mapping causing det, epsecially on such a basic spec of engine where its unlikely to be an underlying problem with the specification, normally that sort of thing is caused by the map being either too lean or too advanced, or a combination of both, sometimes things other than the map can cause leaness (dodgy wiring on injector, faulty injector, low fuel pressure etc)
In extreme cases it can also be caused by map due to r****d (I dont mean the person putting the bad values in the map) as if you have far too little timing although it wont cause det the way that advance will it can cause greatly elevated EGT's and that can then lead to plug and/or piston failures.
Id be wanting the head off that to look at the pistons, or at the very least get a decent bore scope down it, as the pistons have been exposed to the same conditions that the plugs have.
Quite hard on such a basic aftermarket setup for a faulty sensor to increase ignition advance, TPS calibration could do it maybe but not really a lot else that could as there shouldnt be big ignition corrections in there for air temp like there would be on a turbo for example.
Wouldnt let a couple of failed examples put you off high comp, its fundamentally only a small increase in strain on the engine and if built and mapped correctly its very unusual to get a failure of this nature IME. Dont forget the actual amount of fuel and air entering the engine isnt changed to any significant effect by a change in CR, so as long as the ignition (particuarly around the 5-6K or so region on these engines) is kept sensible to allow for the increased compression it really shouldnt be an issue in the mid range and at the top end it can give some quite marked benefits from an improvement in BSFC.
Obviously there IS the downside that its dearer to replace then throwing in another standard engine though!
Not good to hear but lets hope its a simple fix and the pistons aren't damaged
I was shitting it last week during my first time out on a my high comp build, specially since it was the first F4R i have built. Im sure once you get it sorted you will forget about the teething problems quickly once you get out on track.
I was shitting it last week during my first time out on a my high comp build, specially since it was the first F4R i have built. Im sure once you get it sorted you will forget about the teething problems quickly once you get out on track.
They are fundamentally rubbish engines, but they do sound good enough on bodies at full chat to help you forget that
Found the only picture of me out on track on the 13-03-2014 at Snetterton;
seems like I also left the pax door half shut too....great day all round!
seems like I also left the pax door half shut too....great day all round!
Cub.
ClioSport Moderator
Lol. Back up escape hatch primed.
Sorry to see this Pete. It must be frustrating, but stick with it
Can I twist or buy another?
Good info cheers.
Thanks Niel, I'm not so sure it'll be a simple quick fix now.
And here are my plugs took them out again this morning;
Cyl #1
Cyl #2
Cyl #3
Cyl #4
Will post the compression and leak down test results when completed and after I've picked my jaw up off the floor.
Cub.
ClioSport Moderator
Ouch.
NorthloopCup
ClioSport Moderator
Well, they've certainly been feeling the heat that's for sure!! What plugs are they as well??
Bloody hell Pete...I would be going mental....
Are they the correct plugs? They are similar to Bosch super 4's, a plug that I don't recommend, the first thing a replaced when I purchased my Cup.
Are they the correct plugs? They are similar to Bosch super 4's, a plug that I don't recommend, the first thing a replaced when I purchased my Cup.
NGK-R PFR7Z TG is on the plug stem - from the 197 (IIRC) and run cooler than a std 172 plug, Dan's fit.
I'm a bit annoyed\down over it all but Dan's taking the car in on Tuesday this week to put right so that's a very good plus point indeed.
Thanks Martin!
Mate had to short notice go and lock up shop\garage earlier so will finish of the tests tomorrow. Hopefully be all holding good compression and no leaks.
