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Very Urgent help!! Spotting a williams engine

i have been offered the bargain of the century, a williams engine and box and manifold for £350, im going to see it tonight but i need to know how to tell if its the real macoy, is there certain engine numbers for the williams? it is out of the cars and i need to definitly confirm its the real thing befor i give him the cash, i know the manifold is differnt but i would like to be able to confirm with the engine numbers,

im going to pick it up toight so any help ASAP is much appreciated

many thanks in advance

  mk2 172

all i know is tne willy manifold is tubular and 16v is not, dont think they fit eachother either. someone else may confirm though. think there machined different externally too if i remember what i read correctly
  172 Cup, V6 255, Williams

The engine plate should start with the combination F7R. If it starts F7P then its a 1.8....

The strengthening patterns are also different on the block, but this isnt exactly obvious to those who dont know what they look like on the 1.8 block. And as you have said make sure its got a tubular manifold.

I must say £350 sounds very very cheap, I take it it does actually run?


call me stupid but where abouts on the block is the engine number? and am i right in assuming its F7R 234 543 645 etc etc
i will check my V5 when i get home,

i want to take it ASAP before he realises what its worth, im happy to assume its right if its got the tubular manifold but i would love to know straight away if its the real thing, as im spending money i havnt actually got!

same goes for the gearbox is there any external clues to what exactly it is

well, it was certainly the real thing, havnt had a good look at the gearbox yet but i can only assume its a williams unit, i have got plenty of time to check because its sat in my garage!!

I got the whole lot for £300!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

must be the cheapest a willy engine and box has changed hands for,

from my initial guess its not had a horrific life, but im baseing this on the dact that its totaly standard, the oil and air filter are clean, the only worrying thing so far is the head looks like it has got very hot as the plastic around the rocker cover and the surrond where the spark plugs sit are slightly warped unlike thos on my 16v,

aprt from these early indications i dont know much more about it, apart from its came from a heavy write-off (rear end)

the wires have been chopped where they leave the block in two or three places, as have the oil breather pipes/fuel lines etc, but im hoping all these will be replaced with my 16v bits that are already insitu plummed in,

anyone any thoughts on what the next step is?

i need to ispect it and see what needs doing, im in no hurry to drop it in and it may well be a winter project, and include a partial re-build with some mods

wish me luck,

P.S after all that aprehension on the journey uo there is was so pleased to see that tubular manifold and the magic F4R on the engine number plate

may the hassel commence

P.S if your ever going to try and move an engine, take a bigger car than a clio to transport it, that engine is HEAVY!!

Ok m8.. Nice find !..

if you want, I can strip it, rebuild it, and get it ready for ya.

mail me off line..

A coupla hundred n fifty plus parts should sort it if ya want ?

Joe.. in need of dosh for the turbo project lol ....

Ok , to expand a bit on that.. i re-read it n it was a wee bit vague lol..

If ya want, I will do the following for £250....

You drop the engine off here.. I will..

Clean it !..

Strip it, measure and assess wear / condition of...
Pistons / bores, Cranks shaft assembly, rods, oil pump,, valve gear / head, sensors

Hone cylinders, clean pistons, grind crank ( if necessary.. otherwise polish.) (Note - all machining extra. but At cost). fit all new vandervel competition crank bearings (Again, all parts at cost !), thrust washers, clean out oil galleries, de-coke head and re lap valves, re assemble - as above.

I will gtive ya back a fully sorted unit ready to go.

sorry to labour (sic) the point for anyone interested... but...

my bit is £250 ... thats it !..

but.......... ALL costs for macining and parts are your costs.

Just me time.



i would love to let you do it, but the sad fact is im on a vcery tight budget, and im seriously skint after just buying the engine alone!

i would really appreciate yours or anyone elses views (esp BenR) on what the next step is, the holes are filled up with gunky oil and rainwater (the engine was out side) im hoping this is as simple as a new rocker cover gasket which i was going to do anyway, but im worried about the warped plastic around where recessed bit where the spark plugs sit, it most have got very hot to cause it to warp and less some one has been trying to lever it off for some reason,

what about compression testing? can it be done out of the engine, and more importantly in my garage because i could not face moving it again

(see new topic in modifications forum)

seen second post - what would you anticipate max-min parts/machiening costs to be?

your south east way arent you?

No Probs M8..

I advise this.....

DO.. strip the unit... wash it thoroughly first.. !

when u remove a bolt.. draw it in a file (paper !) and then replace the bolt WHERE it came form.

note (ON THE PAPER !) all things wierd ... do drawings.. make measurements. anything to help u remember..

when removing pistons / rods etc.. note the position !.. mark them. !..

same with valves and rockers etc.......

if ya dont have the equipment.. pay someone to measure it all against manufacturers specs.

select the bits u need.. shop around... fit and rebuild... your notes.. AND a manual listing torque settings is mandatory.....

best o luck.. its not too difficult.. just wierd for the first 5 - 10 times......



heres an apx guide.......
pistons ok.....

hone and glaze bust cylinders....... free

measure and size crank mains n big ends..... free...

main and big end bearings if needed.. abt £70

regrind crank.... £48

Polish crank........ £ 40

Full balance. Crank/ flywheel/ clutch/rods/pistons ...... £ 95

Strip n rebuild head assembly .... Free

Re grind valves (16) free.

Time cams..... Free

Valve seats (unlikely ) from £10

Gaskets and seals (renault).... £190

Oil pump...... £ 100

water pump ......... £ 65


if any parts are cheaper or more expensive.... you win or lose...... the price for my time remains the same.


New pistons / rings - unlikely - from 100-600 quid.


would i be OK using GSF bits as they are usually the same in my experience? the gaskets and seals were £60-£80 and the oil pump and water pump are way cheaper,

you can see my reservations as im skint, what if any of those jobs could be done with out the complexed measuring devices?

i make it roughly £450 using the GSF bits, where about do you live and what sort of time would you need the engine?

And if ya want..

on the proviso that..

u drop the lump here,,,,,,,, n pick it up here..... no fittin !!..


fit new sport cams... during rebuild ....... + £100 (labour)

one off. or in car..... supply and fit cams, time cams, rr and setup ( also IKs, ..... from £200 + parts and machining (Unlikely - just parts at or abt)

Cams...... 250-1000 quid. !

gasket set at £85

remove head assembly, clean, strip, rebuild with customer specified new parts... free

Lap valves ...... free

time cams...... free

RR inc cam setup - £35 - £185 - my time..... free

Just as a guide, I aint got a loada room, 3 engines at a time, thats it.


Lofty, I am in Barrowford, Lancs.

If I sorted it, then. say abt 2 days to strip n diagnose, 2 days for machining (not weekend) and 2 days for prepare, select and build .

gotta be a week to 10 m8..

and thats genuine, not promised lol

M8, u wouldnt do this crap for 250 quid lol....... but.. I ACTUALLY....... DO ........ enjoy it.. .......

and, like I say. Its for the turbo project, otherwise I couldnt be assed lol !.


Go it yerself m8.... no probs..... please feel free to drop me a line if ya get stuck.... there are loadsa guys n gals here that would and could help u out.

I will certainly offer any advice I can give


sorry, forgot to add, u provide gaskets, bearings. anything.... no probs.

price is same.... 250 squid...

As I said, I dont want to, and wont , make dosh outa spare parts, machining.

Joe... Me thinks its clear now....

u get the parts.. or I get them......... u pay the SAME.. min cost....

your choice....


i understand complealty mate,

always a pleasure, never a chore,

i would like to do as much as possible my self, the other thing is there would be alot of driving on my part too, i live near Bristol, so that a fair trek,

i will weigh up my options

if you want e mail me
  BMW 320d Sport

Good move thing though...did you say the engine tag had the code F4R? If so, that is definitely not the Williams, the Willy block is F7R!
  172 Cup, V6 255, Williams

Yep needs to be F7R...

And the box is JB5 (small metal tag)...comes to think of it is it JC5? anyway its J*5.....NOT JB3.....

  172 Cup, V6 255, Williams

Excellent mate, where the hell did u find it at that sort of money?

Just hope it runs!

Mind u, its a bargain even if there are probs with it!