Clio 197 on aftermarket managment content...

[Mike_182]

Because it depends on whether you use a realistic RR or a toy one that gives you what you want to hear. That and you experience most of your power in the midrange. How often do you put your foot down when the engine is doing the ~7000rpm it spins at to produce 197PS?

 

[Naith]

mike dont waste your time...

 

[Mike_182]

I've got time to waste, and n00bs to laugh at. I even managed to fix my own blower motor earlier - I swore at it, blew it out, hoovered it, and poked it with a screwdriver and nothing happened. I phoned Fred, went back downstairs to sulk before I found out how much and turned it on just to have one last look, and it was fine!

Result!

 

[SBV116]

I've got time to waste, and n00bs to laugh at. I even managed to fix my own blower motor earlier - I swore at it, blew it out, hoovered it, and poked it with a screwdriver and nothing happened. I phoned Fred, went back downstairs to sulk before I found out how much and turned it on just to have one last look, and it was fine!

Result!

That will have fixed it!

 

[Mike_182]

That will have fixed it!

It works for IT stuff! :dapprove:

 

[Jonny1*2]

lol.very true mike

 

[Naith]

I've got time to waste, and n00bs to laugh at. I even managed to fix my own blower motor earlier - I swore at it, blew it out, hoovered it, and poked it with a screwdriver and nothing happened. I phoned Fred, went back downstairs to sulk before I found out how much and turned it on just to have one last look, and it was fine!

Result!

fcuk BTM, you can fit my decat innit

 

[Mike_182]

f**k that right off. Saw the arseache he had doing one the other week!

 

[Gasket]

Because it depends on whether you use a realistic RR or a toy one that gives you what you want to hear. That and you experience most of your power in the midrange. How often do you put your foot down when the engine is doing the ~7000rpm it spins at to produce 197PS?

Kevo's 200Bhp Clio 197 with just Catcams and a remap from Rs Tuning was run on RS Tunings Dyno Dynamics. It made a gain of 16 Bhp over standard.

I thought they had a top reputation.

If I was looking for 200 Bhp isnt this a much easier option to get the power?

 

[Mike_182]

Again though do you want a big dick or a car that's great to drive? You can (within reason!) make any engine produce a staggering amount of power (200+bhp/litre bikes anyone?!) but it doesn't mean it'll be good fun in a car. The problem with putting in stupid cams and mapping the hell out of it is, yes, it gives you a big dick but you don't actually get the midrange grunt which you use every day.

It's why a 350bhp Ultima is so ferociously quick for the pathetic power it puts out - it's a smallblock V8 and torquey as f**k.

 

[Saner]

Mike. regarding the Renault Making correct pwer on rollers, I can show you a couple of Cups that have made bang on 172 in standard form.

Can I have a tenner now

 

[Mike_182]

Mike. regarding the Renault Making correct pwer on rollers, I can show you a couple of Cups that have made bang on 172 in standard form.

Can I have a tenner now

On decent rollers, I.E. you don't stick an S3 on it and see 300+bhp standard, or a Ford producing 10+bhp up on book?

 

[Tom@JMS]

Kevo's 200Bhp Clio 197 with just Catcams and a remap from Rs Tuning was run on RS Tunings Dyno Dynamics. It made a gain of 16 Bhp over standard.

I thought they had a top reputation.

Sounds a bit funny to be: the timing was out and the AFR was so rich you could bottle what was coming out the back - am I missing something?

 

[Saner]

Can't comment on other makes, but the Dyno Dynamics Rollers at Surrey Rolling Road has always smashed peoples hopes for silly figures.

On the same day ph1's and ph2's have been putting out as low as 155bhp.

My 182 lightly modded has never even made book on these rollers.

I have only ever seen 172 Cups make it for some reason.

 

[JonniP]

I've been to surrey RR guy is a legend

 

[Jonny1*2]

Can't comment on other makes, but the Dyno Dynamics Rollers at Surrey Rolling Road has always smashed peoples hopes for silly figures.

On the same day ph1's and ph2's have been putting out as low as 155bhp.

My 182 lightly modded has never even made book on these rollers.

I have only ever seen 172 Cups make it for some reason.

Thats strange. :S

 

[R1XPH]

is it a jealousy thing for some poeple that I have money to spend?? Maybe what they should do is go and build this better car themselves?? Until then maybe they should shut the f**k up!

Think you hit it with this word dude.

Looks brilliant. Was wondering though, could you not have some sort of spacer/adaptor made to make the TB sit horizontaly in the engine bay to make fitting the filter a little easier and neater?

Something like this:

Could have a flange which bolts to the plenum and one for the TB and a bit of tube welded inbetween to join the two?

 

[theduck]

tbh you can just cut up the plenum like the BPM X85 race car

 

[Jonny1*2]

is there much point adjusting the angle of it? gains would be minimal at best.

whats the race car plenum like duck?

 

[theduck]

instead of coming out the back at a 45 degree angle as it does, it comes out the side at 90 degrees which allows them to run a massive ITG filter and airbox

 

[Jonny1*2]

pics? I thought the cup race cars are supposed to run essentially the same engine as the road cars? I mean the 182 cup racers were almost identical.

 

[theduck]

They do if they compete in the Clio Cup race series, BPM run in Britcar though. Not got any pics, sorry.

 

[Christopher]

Good drawing! lol

 

[R1XPH]

Good drawing! lol

Bog off :rasp: you get the principle

 

[Jonny1*2]

I'd give you a 'B' mate

Ah right, where did they get the plenum made? renault or just a bodge job?

 

[theduck]

You'd have to ask Matt (Icarus) Though it'll be far from a bodge...

 

[Jonny1*2]

You'd have to ask Matt (Icarus) Though it'll be far from a bodge...

only joking. was wondering if it was something renault might have supplied or just an aftermarket mod. Was it a whole different plenum, or just adjusted?

 

[theduck]

Just adjusted

 

[sideways danny]

The problem with putting in stupid cams and mapping the hell out of it is, yes, it gives you a big dick but you don't actually get the midrange grunt which you use every day.

that's not how it works. it's either mapped right or it's not

 

[kevo66]

A while ago didnt Kevs 197 make a peak 200 Bhp and a good 150-165 FtLb from 3000-6500 Rpm with just the Cams and a simple remap of the stock ECU from RS Tuning?

If so, where is the big power/torque advantage with this new ECU, Manifold, TB etc???

Kevo's 200Bhp Clio 197 with just Catcams and a remap from Rs Tuning was run on RS Tunings Dyno Dynamics. It made a gain of 16 Bhp over standard.

I thought they had a top reputation.

If I was looking for 200 Bhp isnt this a much easier option to get the power?

It did, for a short time.... the torque curve was nowhere near as good though...

For all your armchair expert knowledge on how I have spent my money and indeed how much I have spent (not sure how you know that one better than me)..... you are missing some points.....

1. Did I start a thread claiming this had given me X amount more power? Erm.... NO!!!

I thought (and hoped) it may have at 1st, it didnt! What you fail to see is that its solved the running issues, its fully future proof if I should want to do any more mods (but I will be sure to check them with you first) and the torque curve is way better than it ever was.

2. On another forum you were saying about how I could have done better when "creating a track car". Its not what I have done though is it? Its my road car that I use on track. As for the stripping it out etc... I actualy like the look of that, or does that now make it a track car?

TBH you are boring the arse off me on both forums now, at 1st I tried to see your points in a constructive way, but you are not even correct in the assumptions you are making. You are a pathetic little bore who seems to know so much.... yet can show no evidance of putting what you preach into practice... until you can show me you have done all these wonderous things you speak of... shut the f**k up you little c**k!

Think you hit it with this word dude.

Looks brilliant. Was wondering though, could you not have some sort of spacer/adaptor made to make the TB sit horizontaly in the engine bay to make fitting the filter a little easier and neater?

Something like this:

Could have a flange which bolts to the plenum and one for the TB and a bit of tube welded inbetween to join the two?

Yeah, we did toy with the idea mate and cutting/ re welding the manifold but didnt think it would be worth it.

 

[Icarus]

looks good, is this ecu based on the typhoon system specilist components use?

As said earlier the ECU has been a joint development between my lot (TDF), RST and SC. SC manufacture Typhoon rather than use it. We approached SC to see if they'd be willing to work with us on an ECU using the base hardware they had with our strategies etc. The result of this is EC1 which aside from various boring things supports strats such as wheel speed dependant boost pressure, closed loop boost control via turbo speed, 30-2 trigger wheels (to support MMM cars i.e. X85, C85, FR2.0), F4R fully phased VVT, direct connection to Pi, Motec and AIM loggers etc. etc. EC1 is also available in various motorsport/milspec forms with billet IP66 enclosure and 36Pin AS connector.

Cheers
M

 

[Icarus]

I'd give you a 'B' mate

Ah right, where did they get the plenum made? renault or just a bodge job?

On the BPM car in order to package the airbox etc. in we moved the throttle body flange/plenum inlet by removing and rewelding the flange and neck and plating the required areas around/behind it.

On Kevs car there was little point in doing this as it is a road car and retained stock ECU/Gearbox etc. which would have negated how much positive effect this would have. As such Kevs car runs with the 'standard' Oreca X85 cup car inlet manifold.

Cheers
Matt

 

[bmit]

TBH you are boring the arse off me on both forums now, at 1st I tried to see your points in a constructive way, but you are not even correct in the assumptions you are making. You are a pathetic little bore who seems to know so much.... yet can show no evidance of putting what you preach into practice... until you can show me you have done all these wonderous things you speak of... shut the f**k up you little c**k!

LOL - absolutely right! armchair experts = to55ers

 

[Jonny1*2]

On the BPM car in order to package the airbox etc. in we moved the throttle body flange/plenum inlet by removing and rewelding the flange and neck and plating the required areas around/behind it.

On Kevs car there was little point in doing this as it is a road car and retained stock ECU/Gearbox etc. which would have negated how much positive effect this would have. As such Kevs car runs with the 'standard' Oreca X85 cup car inlet manifold.

Cheers
Matt

Fare enough matt. I wonder why they bothered in the BPM car (presume you mean Britcar :S) if the cup racers are just standard. Did it make much difference at all? Was it a direct airbox attachment to the TB?

 

[Icarus]

Fare enough matt. I wonder why they bothered in the BPM car (presume you mean Britcar :S) if the cup racers are just standard. Did it make much difference at all? Was it a direct airbox attachment to the TB?

Nope BPM as in BPM Racing (www.bpmracing.co.uk) who run in Britcar. The standard airbox in the cup racers doubles up as a very effective inlet air restrictor by butting the entry to the box right up against the flat panel bulb cover on the rear of the headlamp assembly.

The BPM set of mods allow the fitment of a very large zero loss airbox mounted directly on the throttle body. As a package of mods with various others bits and bobs it made a positive difference.

 

[Gasket]

It did, for a short time.... the torque curve was nowhere near as good though...

For all your armchair expert knowledge on how I have spent my money and indeed how much I have spent (not sure how you know that one better than me)..... you are missing some points.....

1. Did I start a thread claiming this had given me X amount more power? Erm.... NO!!!

I thought (and hoped) it may have at 1st, it didnt! What you fail to see is that its solved the running issues, its fully future proof if I should want to do any more mods (but I will be sure to check them with you first) and the torque curve is way better than it ever was.

2. On another forum you were saying about how I could have done better when "creating a track car". Its not what I have done though is it? Its my road car that I use on track. As for the stripping it out etc... I actualy like the look of that, or does that now make it a track car?

TBH you are boring the arse off me on both forums now, at 1st I tried to see your points in a constructive way, but you are not even correct in the assumptions you are making. You are a pathetic little bore who seems to know so much.... yet can show no evidance of putting what you preach into practice... until you can show me you have done all these wonderous things you speak of... shut the f**k up you little c**k!




Yeah, we did toy with the idea mate and cutting/ re welding the manifold but didnt think it would be worth it.

What a nice response.

To put my inputs here into perspective, I am always on the verge of getting a Clio 197/200 but the ability to get more power holds me back. That is why I follow these projects and developments.

Correct me if im wrong, you had 200 Bhp (+16 Bhp) and a very much improved torque curve of 150-165 Ft Lb from 3000-6500 Rpm with just the Catcams and a remap from RS tuning.

Sorry to have to mention it, that looked like an excellent gain for a small budget and you keep all the standard ECU functionality and more importantly the £ in your pocket.

The subsequent poor running problem was down to a 4 Deg cam timing problem (from somewhere) that was sorted by Birchdown. Correct?

If the car had then gone back RS Tuning and stayed on the standard ECU, inlet and TB etc I reckon you would see consistent and the same, if not better results than when it was first in there.

All that great work from TDF just doesn’t seem to have produced much more. Now that is not a criticism of you or the work carried out (as you always assume), just proves once again there is little value out of the NA 197/200 without forced induction.

Regarding the planned track days and the tuition you have booked, all I have ever tried to say is you can get a better return, if you want a well resolved track package for all the track days you have planned, by also investing in brakes, suspension, tuition and tyres than by just spending a large amount on a small power gain. A general point. Not valid?

I can see you get very touchy and take it personally if anyone ever dares to suggest there is a different way or alternate approach.

 

[mini-valver]

Gasket, the car NEVER ran right after being mapped on the stock ECU as they self learn. So, if Kev did fancy more power, now he can actually control it, rather than do a power run and a week later the stock ECU to s**t itself and refert back to standard.

Worthwhile? Definately. Assuming that the work Kev has just done was for some massive power gain is rediculous, it was primarily for the car to run right!

 

[Tony Hunter]

Worthwhile? Definately. Assuming that the work Kev has just done was for some massive power gain is rediculous, it was primarily for the car to run right!

Thats why we are having ours done.

 

[Mike_182]

that's not how it works. it's either mapped right or it's not

Why on earth is that then?

So, to those people who have developed various maps for their engines to try to suit, you're telling them they've wasted their time and one map is perfect?

Righto.

 

[Tom@JMS]

Why on earth is that then?

So, to those people who have developed various maps for their engines to try to suit, you're telling them they've wasted their time and one map is perfect?

Righto.

What Dan is trying to say Mike is that mapping is inherently complex and all about attention to detail, its either done correctly to make the most of the work done or not done correctly.

Sure you develop a variety of maps for an application, but only one will be the one you end up using, the others are for want or a better work - experimentation.