Rob's F4R'd Dynamique Track Car

[p@blo]

Re: 1.2 Track car Conversion

Rob, awesome progress. Really inspiring read pal-car will be mega once you're done with it!

Brake setup looks tidy, you going for the cup bias valve too?

Unreal with the gearbox situation, at least now you know it'll be rock solid if its had the works from AT.

Lol at the grinder exploding-bet that fucker made you jump! :rasp:

 

[f0xy]

Re: 1.2 Track car Conversion

That's the least of the problems :dapprove: Pissing around with f*cked engines now!

 

[Gray]

Re: 1.2 Track car Conversion

That's the least of the problems :dapprove: Pissing around with f*cked engines now!

FFS, seriously?! :dead:

 

[ROB91]

Re: 1.2 Track car Conversion

Yep, messed about with the engine all day y'day. Took the rockor cover off, cleaned all the old sealant off as you do, put new sealant on, put the rockor cover back on tightening all the bolts in the specific order and to the specific torque setting, went to time it up and the cam's wont tun at all. We tried it several times and was the same each time it was put togeather.

 

[f0xy]

Re: 1.2 Track car Conversion

Picked up an engine on Saturday, had the sump off and one of the mains caps to check everything was all good before buying. Turned over fine by hand, decent compression, etc - all seemed good.

Decided to take the rocker cover off once we got it back to re-do the sealant so we knew it was done right - so cleaned it all up as said, refitted the cams, rocker cover back on and everything torqued up as per the manual like I have done the past 100 times. Went to put the timing (horseshoe) tool in the end to get the cams level and the cam would physically not move.

Initially thought it might be a rocker fallen off or something similar, so took the rocker cover back off again, cleaned all the sealant off and started again. All the rockers were fine and sat in position etc. So repeated the fitting of the rocker cover and it was exactly the same, just like the cams were jammed.

Only option again was to take the rocker cover off and check if any valves were bent. Removed the rocker cover and cleaned everything up again, then pushed down on each valve one by one and watched them down the ports open and close, all smooth and fine. All the valve stems are sat at the same height too so pretty sure none of them would be bent. Checked the hydraulic tappets next, although I don't think these would affect it - Ten of them were fine, six of them were stuck solid. Free'd them up anyway so all 16 were smooth and easy to depress, then refitted them into the head.

Double checked all the bearings/cams for damage, all seemed fine. So the rockers went back in, cams back in, rocker cover back with sealant again and all torqued up - it was exactly the same. The only thing I could think of was if the engine had been put together without the rocker cover being torqued up properly and/or in the right order. We loosened off the 12 bolts on the rocker cover that surround the the inlet cam (just literally cracked off) and tried to turn the cam - span perfectly.

Going from that I think it confirms the rocker cover is the problem - either its not matched for this head, out of shape or just generally f*cked. We must have been lucky to be able to turn it over when we picked the engine up - I still think that was because the rocker cover was 'loose' and not properly torqued, allowing the cams to spin. As soon as its torqued they are pretty much locked solid. Very very weird.

Sooooo at 10pm last night after having the rocker cover on and off four times we went to pick a spare head for the engine - which has its matching cover, cams, etc. So we don't have to f*ck around with the dodgy one that's currently on the engine. That should give a solid engine once built and we will know that its been done properly. I'm glad we took the cover off now to replace the sealant or we would have never found the problem... and who knows what might have happened when it was run.

Although, I still cant believe how hard it is to find a decent working engine that's not f*cked or been messed with in the past. From previous experience with buying bad engines we purposely took the bottom end off to check everything was clean with no damage - which it was! Thats confirmed by it spinning over very smoothly and easily with no cams in, just as a good one would. The surprise was that the head is knackered when we got it back - absolute joke. Never again will I trust anyone off this forum when buying stuff like this, its just so much easier to build one up from scratch knowing its been done right.

 

[Christopher]

Re: 1.2 Track car Conversion

Is there anyone on here that sells straight goods?! Sh*tter mate.

Give Bricktek a try?

 

[f0xy]

Re: 1.2 Track car Conversion

Haha back to the good ole days. Just skimmed the head with my air powered sander and some 500 grit.

 

[welshname]

Absolutely s**t luck pal. Hope you sort this one out

 

[Mcaff]

Re: 1.2 Track car Conversion

thats s**t luck the gearbox and now this with the engine hope you get it all sorted out pronto mate, looking forword to see this all come together.

 

[harribo66]

Re: 1.2 Track car Conversion

This is great mate and the end result will be awesome! . Gutted to hear about the gearbox though! . I wish I had the time and money to do this to my little 1.2! :dapprove:
I will be keeping a close eye on this thread!

 

[wilky19]

Re: 1.2 Track car Conversion

it was pretty mental last night with it. the cams were proper jammed.

also the invoice for the refurbed gearbox was unreal. it looked like the only thing that was any good on it was the casing.

 

[Jon.G]

Re: 1.2 Track car Conversion

How many people have you got working on this rob

 

[Daniel]

Re: 1.2 Track car Conversion

Absolutely s**t luck pal. Hope you sort this one out

Its not s**t luck, its the fcuking clowns selling stuff on here.

I try and avoid buying anything off here unless i'm desperate or I know the seller. I've been burnt too many times.

 

[mx1_champ]

Re: 1.2 Track car Conversion

love the project will be mint when done.. shitter aint it when you come across problems because sells couldnt be honest

 

[Fred@BTM]

Re: 1.2 Track car Conversion

jord what torque wrench/setting are you using, sounds VERY odd

 

[ROB91]

Re: 1.2 Track car Conversion

Cheers guy's, should be ready to drop in over the next few days, yes i know if every sale was an honest sale there wouldnt be half the problems... but thats what makes it fun isnt it? lol.

There will be loads of picture updates soon just got to upload the mass of photos from the last few days.

Got alot done tonight, took the old knackered head off, cleaned all the block up, cleaned the sump, painted the block..............

Will upload all the pics as soon as i can.

 

[welshname]

Re: 1.2 Track car Conversion

Cheers guy's, should be ready to drop in over the next few days, yes i know if every sale was an honest sale there wouldnt be half the problems... but thats what makes it fun isnt it? lol.

There will be loads of picture updates soon just got to upload the mass of photos from the last few days.

Got alot done tonight, took the old knackered head off, cleaned all the block up, cleaned the sump, painted the block..............

Will upload all the pics as soon as i can.

hopefully some point after 9 and before 5 so i have something to do at work tomorrow.

 

[ROB91]

Re: 1.2 Track car Conversion

Haha, yes... think im gona start getting them up in abit loads to write up.. i need to keep ontop of it more.

 

[f0xy]

Re: 1.2 Track car Conversion

love the project will be mint when done.. s**tter aint it when you come across problems because sells couldnt be honest

Very much so - ive been done over dozens of times on this forum. Although this time I thought I could trust the person as it was a good friend of someone I know on here. Obviously we've lost out this time, lucky the engine wasnt too expensive...

jord what torque wrench/setting are you using, sounds VERY odd

8nm on the four outers as stated in the manual, then 12nm on the rest in the right order, then the outside four to finish to 12nm. Teng wrench...

Must have done the same 50+ times in the past, first time this has ever happened. The bearing journals on the cover look f*cked, but I think its the wrong cover for the head, it really does not seem to like it (think its been rebuilt with parts from whatever was lying around).

The head looks very fresh (I think its had a cambelt go in the past as there are a few marks around the valves on the bowl/chamber) as all the stem seals are new and the head has been recently been skimmed, headgasket looks very new. All the valves from the head that was on the engine are spot on too. Although the head is off now and we're just using the bottom end - get the other head back tomorrow..

 

[Fred@BTM]

Re: 1.2 Track car Conversion

who sold it? pm me

 

[f0xy]

Re: 1.2 Track car Conversion

PM sent...

 

[ROB91]

Re: 1.2 Track car Conversion

Right time for the updates.... before i crack on ive been meaning to put a few pics up of the yozza thats i bought, the yozza was virtually brand new, the backbox has covered 100miles and the center section is brand new... nd the pics

its has a 2.5" straight cut tip on it

I decided that i had to relocate the cigarette lighter, had a few ideas but i thought it was best to put it where the headlight adjuster goes...

As a few of you know if you have been reading the thread i have had a lot of trouble with the geabox that i got.... well i sent it off to Agency Transmissions and they changed virtually everything but the case, got to say they turned it around in just over a day, really pleased with it.

 

[ROB91]

Re: 1.2 Track car Conversion

On saturday me and jord (f0xy) went on a 330 mile round trip to collect the 172 engine that we got off the forum, was a long drive but we thought it was well worth it as the engine seemed to be ok...

Then the fun began... we decided to take the rocker cover off so that we could re-seal it.... so we removed the rockor cover cleaned alk the surfaces up and re-sealed it up...

So once it was all back togeather we went to time everything up.... whilst trying to put the timing tool in we realised that the cas would not turn in the head... So we took it all back off again and checked that all the valves move and all the tappets were free. We found 6 tappets that were stuck solid..

So we freed those up and put it back togeather once again only to find out that the cams still wouldnt turn. We came to the conclusion with several other people that the rockor cover wasnt right for the head as when we loosened off the cover bolts the cams turned fine. So at 10pm we drove down to stoke to collect a complete new head. Dont have any pics of this yet as it has been sent off to be skimmed and cleaned.

So tonight we set about removing the old head and cleaning the block and sump off.

the rockor cover off ONCE again lol

All head bolts out

And finally the head was taken off

 

[ROB91]

Re: 1.2 Track car Conversion

Once the head was taken off we then started to remove bit off the block so that we could clean and paint it. I removed the water pump pulley and gave that a good clean up, really supprised how much dirt there was on the engine.

Next we gave the block a few coats of hammerite..

As the sump was really crusty and full of oile and stuuf we removed it and decided to clean that, clean out the oil pump filter and the seating foe the sump seal..

Next we cleaned the sump up, using oven cleaners and general other bits and bobs, came up really well..

More painting of the engine...

lovley and clean sump

Next was to spray the lover inlet and water pump pulley, ive sprayed all inlets and engine parts that i can with matt black hammerite BBQ paint, looks really good, pictures dont show how good it looks.

Nest we put the sump back on and gave that a coat of paint

So leave that to dry and its all ready for the new head and head gasket to go on tomorrow. Get it all timed up and that should be that...

 

[Jamesstone]

Re: 1.2 Track car Conversion

check out the state of those cams! run low on oil at some point?

 

[ROB91]

Re: 1.2 Track car Conversion

poss yes, were not using those as we have a new set with the head that we got, looks abit of a mess really considering it has recently been re-built

 

[ROB91]

Re: 1.2 Track car Conversion

Its abit annoying having to do this to a suppose to be perfect engine, but in one way im glad we have done all this as i have learned so much about the engine and how it work and how things go togeather ect ect.... really enjoying this now

 

[Fred@BTM]

Re: 1.2 Track car Conversion

erm what do you mean the tappets were stuck solid?

epic exhaust, who did that to the tail pipe though?

 

[f0xy]

Re: 1.2 Track car Conversion

check out the state of those cams! run low on oil at some point?

Aye more than likely, absolute joke. The cam journals on the head itself are OK, but the cover is a lot worse. Wierd how the lobes look worn but the actual rockers look new when removed!

All the other f*ckabouts ive come across on this site have sold us dodgy bottom ends or ones with fubar'd rings, so checked both of those this time to find its the head! IMO its defo had a cambelt snap at some point, been fixed and then built back up. The head is freshly skimmed and gasket is very new (sub 1000mile). Worked out cheaper to get another head than faff about driving 350 mile to take it back and p*ss around with refunds etc :boring:

 

[f0xy]

Re: 1.2 Track car Conversion

erm what do you mean the tappets were stuck solid?

epic exhaust, who did that to the tail pipe though?

10 of them would squeeze in and out by hand very easily like most others Ive seen before.. He means the others were sort of 'hydrolocked' and would not budge (stuck in the expanded position) unless put in a vice and squashed to f**k, even grips wouldnt budge them..

JP did the tail pipe (for Dave/Mini-Valver)

 

[f0xy]

Re: 1.2 Track car Conversion

Well as mentioned earlier in the thread we picked up a replacement cylinder head to go on the engine to avoid any more f*cking about - better to do it right than go on hope, I've seen/had it happen too many times in the past.

After the cams wouldnt turn we decided to make a few phone calls and find a head with a matching rocker cover, picked one up cheap off someone I know (and actually trust) last night. It was from an engine that had a cambelt failure, and the inlet valves were bent - no biggy though as we have a full set of inlet valves from the head that was on the engine.

I removed the valves for Rob today and took it down to a guy I use for my machine work to skim it. Also got him to order a full set of valve stem seals (as for some reason Renault no longer do them on their own, only as part of a head set).

Rob decided he wanted new stem seals, headgasket and other bits so its a completely fresh head to go on the good bottom end. May as well do it once and do it right, so everything has been done properly. Even with the added cost of the second cylinder head, machine work, seals and other required bits it still comes in way cheaper than buying some of the other engines that are floating about on here. Luckily the engine was cheap in the first place, if we had paid any more I would not be impressed..

15 mins later...

Along with the lovely bent valves which will be replaced with the ones from the other (scrap) head...

Double checked all the valve guides once I got to the machine shop and they are spot on, probably because the valves are bent close down to the heads. With the new valves it should be spot on for a long time to come...

The head will be back from being skimmed tomorrow, along with the new seals and headgasket, ready to be fitted :sleepy:

 

[BIFCAIDS]

Re: 1.2 Track car Conversion

This project is awesome Robinho, want me to put a horse's head in their bed?

 

[Fred@BTM]

Re: 1.2 Track car Conversion

you should of said, i've got 2 sets of stem seals at work going spare

 

[f0xy]

Re: 1.2 Track car Conversion

Doh, oh well. They were only a quid each anyway, would cost more in diesel to come and get them lol.

 

[ROB91]

Re: 1.2 Track car Conversion

This project is awesome Robinho, want me to put a horse's head in their bed?

Cheers mate, Yes please lol

 

[Matt_Fezzy]

Re: 1.2 Track car Conversion

Getting there now mate!!

 

[f0xy]

Re: 1.2 Track car Conversion

Some pictures of the f*cked rocker cover...

 

[f0xy]

Re: 1.2 Track car Conversion

Here you go Rob - It was perfectly flat beforehand (so would have been fine), but 5 thou was removed anyway to be absolutely sure. All cleaned too in the kitchen dishwasher...

 

[ROB91]

Re: 1.2 Track car Conversion

Cheers for that jord, Looks really good cant wait to see it later on. At least everything is going to be brand new when its put togeather. Thanks for that mate.

 

[sofaboy]

Re: 1.2 Track car Conversion

Bloody hell rob!! hadnt realised this was happening, nice quick progress shame about getting messed about with the gearbox and engine. Cant wait to see this finished