172 Cup Track/Fast Road car.

[Cup_Phil]

They've done 5,000 miles but are older than 12 months I think - it just doesn't move much as it sits in the garage 90% of the time

Sorry about not being descriptive enough before - I'm useless at typing stuff up, always doing 8 different things and not concentrating lol
I hadn't thought about softening the rear ARB up actually but that makes sense - I think i'll stick the back up 10mm or so and put the ARB back on the middle setting and see how it reacts.
Front is running the most negative camber I can get out of eibach camber bolts
I do want to fit camber shims on the back and some spacers as the wheels sit way too far into the arches. That's something I might do while the billies are off being rebuilt

I can't remember off the top of my head what the geometry settings are - think it was -2degrees of camber and 10minutes of toe out on the front

 

[Toastfrenzy]

-3.4 camber, 2mm toe out and -2.3-2.5 camber on rear -seems a good all round set up for mine, but need more -ve camber for Mallory front and rear. AST Sportline II's all corners one click up from the softest setting.

Drives like it's on rails - I suspect if you change your tyres now your billies will really let you down.

 

[Cup_Phil]

Yeah that's one of the reasons I've not gone for R888's or similar this year, the guy who set my car up said the Bilsteins would be waaaay too soft

I could realistically go out and buy spax coilovers and R888's in a couple of months but then probably fit one track day in before christmas.
OR I can wait till my pay rise in 3 months, buy AST Sportline II's, and some federal FZ-201's, camber shims - then do nothing but rag it's tits off all next year

I think it's worth waiting

 

[Toastfrenzy]

Sportline II's, you have to love the 45mm dia front shaft, no bend on that mofo....you'll need spacers for the extra girth. I'd wait and buy the AST's.

I've elongated the top holes (not to everyones taste) they come elongated but to only about 1.7 neg.

 

[Tony Hunter]

Sportline II's, you have to love the 45mm dia front shaft, no bend on that mofo....you'll need spacers for the extra girth. I'd wait and buy the AST's.

I've elongated the top holes (not to everyones taste) they come elongated but to only about 1.7 neg.

We did the same Pete, because we used all the top adjustment for maximum castor.

Phil, don't do anything until you get some decent tyres on the car. Should be able to sort your problem in a day.

 

[Cup_Phil]

Yeah

I've decided to use it for the other thing it was built for - weekend B road blaster LOL
Gonna use the uniroyals up driving it about until October, then it's coming off the road for 6 months so can have some nice new tyres for christmas

 

[WILLYx]

Stunning! So clean aswell!!

 

[Cup_Phil]

Thanks

I've been cleaning it again tonight and I'm considering a vinyl wrap next

 

[M444TTB]

How's it going Phil? Car looked nice in the videos. What does it weigh in at these days?

 

[Cup_Phil]

Hey matt - not bad mate - how's you?

I have no idea how much it weighs actually - I could do with taking it to a weighbridge and find out

I know I took about 150kgs out as I weighed most things removed/cut out - but the cage is about 40kg?
Maybe around 900kg ish

 

[M444TTB]

900kg with 200bhp(ish?) sounds good to me! That's on a par with my Westfield.

 

[Cup_Phil]

Yeah it's certainly quick enough in a straight line hehe

 

[M444TTB]

I haven't had the Westy out on track yet, but I'm going to have to be really brave on the bends to get the most out of it I think. Apparently it can be pretty tail happy!

 

[Cup_Phil]

Yeah I see a fair few of them out on track not going very quickly - the ones that are definitely had their brave flakes for breakfast lol - twitch little things!

 

[M444TTB]

That's generally my impression of them on track - old chaps going slowly! At least mine shouldn't be power over steering much when I drive it hard!

 

[Cup_Phil]

That's generally my impression of them on track - old chaps going slowly! At least mine shouldn't be power over steering much when I drive it hard!

I keep fancying a play in one because they look very balanced and extremely capable if you've got the talent
I also really fancy building one - I'm a bit bored now there's nothing left to do on the clio lol

 

[M444TTB]

A mate is just finishing his. Cost him c.£12k including the 1.8 MX5 donor car. He also 'optioned up' the spec a fair bit. It has taken about 12 months to build I think. If you want to put yourself off just download a copy of the IVA test manual!

 

[Tony Hunter]

I haven't had the Westy out on track yet, but I'm going to have to be really brave on the bends to get the most out of it I think. Apparently it can be pretty tail happy!

Bring it to Llandow in September, would be fun.

 

[Cw Tuning.]

just read from page 1 to 27, insane project money isnt an issue? lol considering boost or anything? 225 conversion?

 

[Cup_Phil]

LOL I wouldn't say money isn't an issue mate - I'm just at a point in life where I'm fairly well off
Don't have wife, kids etc...

Won't be going boosted - the ITB's offer more power than I can use at the moment anyway

Winter this year will probably see cams (as it needs a cambelt + dephaser anyway), diff, sticky rubber and some re-wiring to ditch the standard ecu.

 

[Cup_Phil]

Wow - it's been way too long since I've updated this

Had a problem with the rear pads being worn at Donington/FCS - turns out one of the piston seals had gone and the piston on that side had seized out.
Thought about rebuilding them but then found a mint set of calipers on ebay for £26 with pads! So bought those, fitted them and my rear brakes are spot on again now.

Then went through a phase where I thought about selling the car, looked at 200's, looked at Evo 6's (again) - but finally decided to stick to the original plan and get a tow car and trailer over winter. Get a diff, good tyres, better brakes, AST's on the Clio and I still think it will be pretty special on track next year

Found some Wilwood 4-pots on here for sale over in Birmingham at a good price, so nipped over last night and swapped some of my standard bits and a big wad of cash for this setup

Excuse the really crappy iPhone shots - it was raining so I had to do it all in the garage and space is s**t

Went out for a quick test, got some heat in them and then stomped on them. Locked both front wheels - bit scary in the wet.
For all those people who go on about 4-pots being overkill on a Clio and standard calipers being fine, I still completely disagree.
Much more progressive feel to them and easily double the stopping power!
Also the AP rotors are awesome, they look like they'll dissipate heat a LOT quicker than the Brembo HC's that just came off. And the calipers, bells and rotors together weigh less than the old discs on their own. I reckon easily a few kg per side lost - unsprung weight too. Chuffed to bits!

Can't wait to get on track at Donington in October now just have to get Fred to sort my cambelt out and buy some sticky rubber first lol

 

[Clart]

Glad you are happy with them mate! Thanks for the help - just read the entire thread. Sounds like a proper weapon.

 

[Cup_Phil]

Any time mate - had a fun night.

More than happy with them - Drop in unsprung mass and being able to brake that little bit later should make a massive difference on track

 

[domsclio182]

Brake's look good, will fitting the same to mine next week, did it take long to fit them?

 

[Cup_Phil]

About 30mins - it's only 2 bolts really and the hose to undo.
Make sure you undo the T40 (I think) torx screws that hold the standard discs on while the calipers are still on. If they're pretty seized you'll need someone to press the brake to stop the disc spinning while you undo them. Other than that easy peasy

Bleeding them was a doddle too!

 

[domsclio182]

Nice one, thanks.

 

[Cr33do]

Good work Phil. The calipers really do look nice but the only issue i have found with them is that they seriously eat the pads; talking track work here. Might be because the pad area is smaller than that of a standard pad. Cannot deny the unsprung weight advantage though, nor the feel through the pedal. Be interesting to see how you get on with them.

Edit - just noticed you mention a Donington track day in October. Ours should be run in and mapped by then will need to go and check the dates. Who is it with?

 

[Jekyll]

Good progect phil. Just read the thread and was a good read

Glad to see you got the wilwoods too. Awesome arent they?

One of my fave pics is of yours where its siting in the garage showing the engine bay and tool box

 

[Cup_Phil]

Good work Phil. The calipers really do look nice but the only issue i have found with them is that they seriously eat the pads; talking track work here. Might be because the pad area is smaller than that of a standard pad. Cannot deny the unsprung weight advantage though, nor the feel through the pedal. Be interesting to see how you get on with them.

Edit - just noticed you mention a Donington track day in October. Ours should be run in and mapped by then will need to go and check the dates. Who is it with?

Yeah they're 2k old I think and the lad's done 1 track day in them and I reckon half the DS2500's are gone
But that being said I've done 1 track day on the DS2500's in my standard calipers and they're half way to the wear indicators too lol

30th October with Javelin - only £139! Bargain for a full open pit day there

Good progect phil. Just read the thread and was a good read

Glad to see you got the wilwoods too. Awesome arent they?

One of my fave pics is of yours where its siting in the garage showing the engine bay and tool box

Thanks mate
Yeah had Brembo's on my old 106 and I did miss them. I love being able to brake just that little bit later than everyone else

 

[Tony Hunter]

I love being able to brake just that little bit later than everyone else
Not overtaking into corners I hope.

 

[Cup_Phil]

Lol I never would

 

[BIGASH]

Brakes look awesome mate If i'm still in the country end of Oct then I will pop down and say hi at Donny!

 

[MG cup]

Looking good Phil, I was very tempted by these and not having tracked my Clio I was unsure of the brake performance so I decided to leave it. With everyone saying the standards are up to abuse and all...I have reservations if they will put up with me tho and I think you have made my mind up.

Did you try fitting the caliper's over standard disks as jam sport told me they were interchangable between oem and floating disks.

I think I will just settle for some 197 calipers if I can get brackets made to squeeze under 2118's, larger pad surface.

 

[Cup_Phil]

I didn't mate - but I'm pretty sure they can run on standard discs as you can buy the setup from Jamsport with Brembo HC's and then you can pay £600!! (lol) for the bells and rotors as an upgrade

I'm glad I bought em - couldn't justify it at £1200 but they're SO LIGHT. You can pick the calipers up easily with your little finger - even with the pads in.
The thing that put me off about the 197 calipers was no-one can get them to fit behind 15's, and I really don't want to run 16's on track.

 

[MG cup]

Yeah they went for a good price with the AP disks.

Whatever setup I go for it will have to fit under 2118's as I have two sets now but they are the et 48.5 cup racer fitment so I hope that will give some more room near the spokes of wheel.

I think I am just going to attempt the conversion with Brembo max disks and caliper mounts from a guy in france and modify to suit requirements.

(I have just had conformation that they do fit under 15" wheels some wheels require spacing. If it dosent suit my car I will sell on here to someone with 16")

 

[LewisTaylor]

Whatever setup I go for it will have to fit under 2118's as I have two sets now but they are the et 48.5 cup racer fitment so I hope that will give some more room near the spokes of wheel.

High offset means it will sit further in, so less space near the spokes as you put it.

Please correct me if i'm wrong :S

Brakes look awesome Phil, would love some, but i drive like a girl, so overkill for me

 

[Cup_Phil]

Yeah higher offset means they sit further in

My 2118's are ET42 and are the palmer sport ones that the palmer cup race cars used
Standard 15" wheels are ET37 and sit 5mm further out

No idea where you got 48.5 wheels from but they'd sit 6mm further in than my wheels. They wouldn't even clear these wilwoods. Not a chance in hell they'd clear 197 calipers - they're huge!

In fact they never made 2118's in ET48.5 - from what I can find that was the speedline 2020 wheels

 

[LewisTaylor]

Yeah higher offset means they sit further in

My 2118's are ET42 and are the palmer sport ones that the palmer cup race cars used
Standard 15" wheels are ET37 and sit 5mm further out

No idea where you got 48.5 wheels from but they'd sit 6mm further in than my wheels. They wouldn't even clear these wilwoods. Not a chance in hell they'd clear 197 calipers - they're huge!

Cup racer wheels, made of magnesium too!! iirc.

 

[Cup_Phil]

Ahhh yeah ok so not 2118's - the 2020's
They actually are ET48.5 - and require 10mm spacers to be fitted lol
So basically with the spacers they're ET38.5 - which is very nearly the same offset as standard clio wheels

 

[MG cup]

Ahhh yeah ok so not 2118's - the 2020's
They actually are ET48.5 - and require 10mm spacers to be fitted lol
So basically with the spacers they're ET38.5 - which is very nearly the same offset as standard clio wheels

OOPS I was thinking the other way around, I might run into issues.

Ahwell I will still make money if I have to sell on but I will try.

Yeah they are 2118's with an et48.5 offset, only ever made for Renault sport in a limited run, they have the speedline logo embossed into the front ( not to be confused with some variations where they were released with embossed logo) of the wheel unlike the wheels Speedline sell in the uk which are flat.

Its a myth about cup racer wheels being made from magnesium, they were never built with these and If a car has had them fitted, they have been a custom make from speedline.

et 48.5 is just about the largest offset you can fit to a cup racer without the rim touching the strut( doing this gives better geomtery for Machpherson strut cars, this allows the wheel's to follow the struts rotational movement in a tighter curve....This is what the new 197,200 Clios suspension avoids also the focus RS revo nuckle system which is the ultimate in FWD setup) You have to remember my wishbones work out to be 25mm longer each side with the cup racer suspension, then there is the different hubs which may alter the track width as well (im unsure) so the wheel offset has to be adjusted to stay inside the arches.

Renault sport are brainier cookies than me so I'll leave that up to them but I might struggle to fit 197 Brembos under after all, we'll see.

Didn't palmersport run brembos under 2118's???