172 Cup Turbo - Track Car

[scotty2hotty81]

There will be a leak anywhere between where the throttle body joins the inlet to where it enters the engine, seals on sensors ok? Seal on throttle body ok? Upper inlet 100% fitted properly? Try spraying a load of wd40 around and see if the revs fluctuate or change as a resault.

 

[Johnc172]

There will be a leak anywhere between where the throttle body joins the inlet to where it enters the engine, seals on sensors ok? Seal on throttle body ok? Upper inlet 100% fitted properly? Try spraying a load of wd40 around and see if the revs fluctuate or change as a resault.

Cheers for that mate, ill give giving most of those a go one night this week hopefully.

Haven't managed to do much today as I've been on Dad duty, but it managed to print some labels for the centre console!

ill be putting some gauges in where the centre fans used to be, any recommendations welcome, going for boost, oil temp and pressure for now

 

[Cupman29]

Well done on the swap over!

Like the centre console too. I went for Spa oil pressure/temp and a boost/coolant temp sensor then I'm going to get a aem afr gauge to finish it off.

 

[Johnc172]

Well done on the swap over!

Like the centre console too. I went for Spa oil pressure/temp and a boost/coolant temp sensor then I'm going to get a aem afr gauge to finish it off.

How did you fit the oil temp/pressure gauges? Sandwich plate or another way?

 

[Mr R.]

Id like to see this at Brands

 

[Cupman29]

How did you fit the oil temp/pressure gauges? Sandwich plate or another way?

Not actually fitted them yet but plan on using the laminova oil cooler body for the temp and tee off the oil feed for the turbo for the pressure.

 

[Stuey 172]

Very nice!!! Im just at the beggining of a similar project

 

[Chip-mk1]

There is a renaultsport only evening session at bedford at the beginning of July, if you want a gentle shakedown on track with it?

 

[r0ss172]

There is a renaultsport only evening session at bedford at the beginning of July, if you want a gentle shakedown on track with it?

This ^

 

[Clart]

Thats gonna be a proper weapon.

 

[George@RTR_Parts]

^ This

Great work so far mate :approve:

 

[Johnc172]

There is a renaultsport only evening session at bedford at the beginning of July, if you want a gentle shakedown on track with it?

Haha! Yeah ok, that'll happen! As much as I would like to think I would take it easy, I probably couldn't! I need to get rid of the red one first to free up some cash, I'll keep it in mind though for nearer the time.

^ ThisGreat work so far mate :approve:

Thanks! It's getting there, have a bit of motivation block at the moment!

 

[Chip-mk1]

By gentle shakedown I meant its only a couple of hours not a whole day

Plus loads of us around with turbo clios to help you fix it if you get an issue.

 

[Johnc172]

If I get rid of the red car in time then I may just do that!

need to find some time to find this air leak and sort the exhaust out, currently a 3" straight through!

 

[Johnc172]

So, I've found the problem! It was the TB after all that! Swapped it for the original from the donor engine! It was idling on 2-2.5k and now just above 1k and behaves in the same way as it did when it was in the red car, so success!!

Although that's one problem fixed, I've now got an overboost issue! When we swapped the engines over we noticed one of the silicon elbows had a hole in it the size of a 5p, plus the knock sensor had snapped off, now fixed, and I'm now running matched RS manifolds where before they weren't stamped or matched. So it def needs a remap!

progress is progress tho!

Plan is to turn the boost down, its got a bleed valve on the back so going to wind it out to calm the boost down then down to ktec for a remap.

 

[matt_132]

Great stuff mate. Keep going. I want to do this to mine, lack the know how and equipment though.

 

[Johnc172]

Great stuff mate. Keep going. I want to do this to mine, lack the know how and equipment though.

Cheers! I'm just lucky that I've got some very keen mates and a drive to do it on!

I've been looking at electronic boost controllers over the last few days, anyone have any recommendations? I don't feel too happy just running a manual one/bleed valve

 

[Andyrg@ ClioTurbo]

Awsome car. Love the boost.

414lbs is a little optimistic on a clio box.

As you stated your not bothered re figs its how it drives

 

[Andyrg@ ClioTurbo]

Re boost control what ecu are you running

 

[Johnc172]

Awsome car. Love the boost.

414lbs is a little optimistic on a clio box.

As you stated your not bothered re figs its how it drives

Yeah! All the figures seem optimistic, but we'll see what it makes when I'm done!

​im running a Gen90...

 

[Andyrg@ ClioTurbo]

The gen 90 can control the boost it self with a inbult boost setup all you need is a 3 port solenoid and your away i have a few at the moment brand new for £45 shipped sold one to my mate Laine 16V he will comment on the quality etc

 

[Johnc172]

The gen 90 can control the boost it self with a inbult boost setup all you need is a 3 port solenoid and your away i have a few at the moment brand new for £45 shipped sold one to my mate Laine 16V he will comment on the quality etc

Ah ok, so that works out pretty well! How do I control the boost then if it's done through the gen90? Properly basic question here haha

 

[Laine_16v]

Andy will supply a 3 Port valve made by MAC (highly reuptable industrial valve manufacturer), all the expensive electronic boost controllers use the exact same valve.

The GEN90 has a boost target table and will run closed loop in harmony with the valve, it does the hard work (or it should in theory), for you.

Time will tell, mines being mapped very shortly with this setup for more boost, i'll let you know how i get on.

 

[r0ss172]

The way its mapped mate. The ECU works in conjunction with the boost solenoid which is similar to a bleed valve to by pass the actuator allowing more boost to flow.

Someone correct me if im wrong.

 

[r0ss172]

Time will tell, mines being mapped very shortly with this setup for more boost, i'll let you know how i get on.

Me too

 

[Johnc172]

Andy will supply a 3 Port valve made by MAC (highly reuptable industrial valve manufacturer), all the expensive electronic boost controllers use the exact same valve.

The GEN90 has a boost target table and will run closed loop in harmony with the valve, it does the hard work (or it should in theory), for you.

Time will tell, mines being mapped very shortly with this setup for more boost, i'll let you know how i get on.

Perfect, that'll be good cheers. Are you running a boost gauge? Quite keen to one to keep an eye levels.

The way its mapped mate. The ECU works in conjunction with the boost solenoid which is similar to a bleed valve to by pass the actuator allowing more boost to flow.


Someone correct me if im wrong.

Yeah there's just a bleed valve in place at the moment, so this seems a much better set up

 

[r0ss172]

Yeah il be running a boost gauge, oil temp, and oil pressure at some point.

 

[Stuey 172]

Best boost controller in my opinion is the gizzmo ive had an apexi avcr too complicated and tecnologys got very old gizzmo seems very easy to use plus works well much less spiking than avcr

 

[Laine_16v]

The Gizzmo boost controller uses the 3 port MAC valve too

 

[Johnc172]

Is this the one guys? I've seen several on eBay, they look like cheap copies compared to this..

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Gizzmo-IB...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item33823c6f60

 

[Cupman29]

http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?699762-Boost-controller-and-scan-gauge-2

Might be of interest.

 

[Chip-mk1]

gizzmo (well the ones I have setup for people) doesnt have a throttle input, so will never drive very well.

if you want a properly quick fwd turbo car on track, it needs a 3d boost control strategy, if you are going to make do with 2d then at least use TPS not RPM as the single input.


What ECU are you on, I lose track of which thread is which TBH on here as so many turbos at the moment!

 

[Andyrg@ ClioTurbo]

Gizzmo are crap, AVCR is 100% better if you want to go along the lines of separate control systems.

The actual GEN 90 that you run is more than capable of doing this for you.

Chip its a Gen90 sorry a Gems

 

[Chip-mk1]

I'd use the ECU then, not buy a stand alone one just for it to not work as well.

 

[Cup_Phil]

Yup gizzmo suck ass.
My mate had one on his 106 turbo project when he bought it, we binned it off and used ECU control. He's only got an omex 600 so not ideal but still better than the gizzmo

 

[Chip-mk1]

Yup gizzmo suck ass.
My mate had one on his 106 turbo project when he bought it, we binned it off and used ECU control. He's only got an omex 600 so not ideal but still better than the gizzmo

Yeah the omex boost control is very crude, your best bet is to use an aux control instead as then at least you can set it against TPS, but still nothing like as sophisticated as things like megasquirt that allow fully 3D mappable control based on RPM and TPS.

My favourite ECU for boost control is SM4, which is what I have on my mk1 clio, but TBH its probably a little over budget for most clio owners and the only reason im using it is cause I had one lieing around.
Its quite literally endlessly programmable, can have a different 3D map for every gear or speed based, user input dial for 10 different settings etc or whatever you want, literally anything you can think of basically as it has a very flexible general purpose control table setup that you can use to create internal variables from any inputs or other internal tables.

The megasquirt stuff is the best of the really simple out of the box ones though I reckon.

 

[Andyrg@ ClioTurbo]

My ms3 321 is not a bad ecu apart from its fragile nature

 

[Johnc172]

Cheers for the input lads, a lot of that meant nothing to me haha!

I think I'll got down the same route as Laine and the 3 port valve, then take it down for a remap. Can this be fitted and then driven some distance before a remap or needs to be fitted at the same time?

 

[Chip-mk1]

Just wire it in but leave the plumbing up of the actual pipes until you get to your mapper seeing as it only takes a few seconds to plug the pipes in, just run it at WG actuator pressure till then.

 

[Cup_Phil]

Yeah the omex boost control is very crude, your best bet is to use an aux control instead as then at least you can set it against TPS, but still nothing like as sophisticated as things like megasquirt that allow fully 3D mappable control based on RPM and TPS.

My favourite ECU for boost control is SM4, which is what I have on my mk1 clio, but TBH its probably a little over budget for most clio owners and the only reason im using it is cause I had one lieing around.
Its quite literally endlessly programmable, can have a different 3D map for every gear or speed based, user input dial for 10 different settings etc or whatever you want, literally anything you can think of basically as it has a very flexible general purpose control table setup that you can use to create internal variables from any inputs or other internal tables.

The megasquirt stuff is the best of the really simple out of the box ones though I reckon.

The lad who mapped his car did something quite impressive with the Omex 600 and managed to get some Gems firmware/software running on it - as I believe the Omex 600 is a very basic spec gems ecu anyway.
Really impressed, but as you say it's still not a proper 3d map and the Omex is too slow really to react