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172 or 165bhp





got a mate working at MG who has been bench testing different engines and comparing them to their own ZR 160 engine. He said the ZR 160 came in at an average of 164bhp, the 206 180 came in at an average just shy of 179bhp, but the 172 only produced a maximum of 165bhp.

Has the MG mist completely clouded his vision and the figure was actually a lot closer to 172, or are the 172s actually that far off?

ive got a standard cup, although the engines are identical to the 172s and id like to know what bhp figures anyone else has had out of the standard 172 unit. i think im gonna get mine dynod at the end of the month just to see.
 


True, they are rated by renault at 172bhp DIN. However all the other engines are rated by their manufacturers the same way (bhp DIN) and the test results were rated the same (bhp DIN). So the difference between the claims and the tests are the same.

has anyone had even 170bhp (DIN) out of a standard 172 engine?

this is really bugging me that renault have claimed the 172 engine is 172 bhp (DIN) - hence the name. I know it shouldnt, but it bugs me that renault are promoting fictional figures
 

Lee

  BMW M2C


At the recent Midlands Rolling Road day 172s were producing between 158 and 162bhp @FW. That included a car with zorst, chip and induction kit. All the rest were standard.
 
  Renault Laguna Coupe


You sure Lee? Mine made 158 at the wheels!

sv_cup; theres a list of all our rolling road results in the members section.
 
  mk2 172


you need to put them on accurate rollers to be honest! on the ones at top gear performance and john nobles motorsports the 172s were making about 161 i think?, my vts made 144bhp. which about right for the weight/power/performance difference
 

Lee

  BMW M2C


Im sort of considering going to the Power Engineering RR day, for comparison, but to be honest its a bit far for me to travel.

I know a few people are going who did the Midlands one so that should give an idea of how the RRs vary.
 

Lee

  BMW M2C


Exactly Mike. At least that level of power was consistent with all the 172s.

I think Steves V6 made around 208bhp @FW if my memory serves me correct. Oh and he let me take it out for a spin :D
 


So 172s were making 160 ish and on the same day a "230" HP 3.0 V6 24 valve Clio only made 208??



the_GZAs cup (ktec exhaust and panel filter) made 182 hp and 140 lb ft @ Star performance, the same RR that 007 made about 160 in his Willy.
 


the 172 is 172PS which equated to just over 169bhp

to be honest the star performance figures seem very generous, roamer was pushing 184 with his 172 before his t/b conversion and that was with a k-tec system, viper and a chip
 


Quote: Originally posted by sv_cup on 21 September 2003


got a mate working at MG who has been bench testing different engines and comparing them to their own ZR 160 engine. He said the ZR 160 came in at an average of 164bhp, the 206 180 came in at an average just shy of 179bhp, but the 172 only produced a maximum of 165bhp.

Has the MG mist completely clouded his vision and the figure was actually a lot closer to 172, or are the 172s actually that far off?

ive got a standard cup, although the engines are identical to the 172s and id like to know what bhp figures anyone else has had out of the standard 172 unit. i think im gonna get mine dynod at the end of the month just to see.







Sounds weird, they managed to get hold of a 180 206 engine and bench tested it? Im sure if you ordered the engine itself you would have to wait months and months! You would struggle to get hold of a 206 "180" right now, only demos running about I think.
 


Quote: Originally posted by bambam on 21 September 2003

the 172 is 172PS which equated to just over 169bhp

to be honest the star performance figures seem very generous, roamer was pushing 184 with his 172 before his t/b conversion and that was with a k-tec system, viper and a chip


Yeah but if a willy was making 160.... My Primera 2.0 (cams, manifold/downpipe,panel filter, exhaust) made 170 there.
 
  Renault Laguna Coupe


I guess we always get in a tizz over this. On the track / 1/4 mile our times are pretty comparable, so I doubt theres much difference in reality. These rolling roads really do seem to vary a lot!
 


All Clio Cup engines are bench tested for 172bhp, it would be interesting to know what renault do to the engines which dont quite make the grade..is there an obvious fault they put right..or do they not care and sell it anyway? If i had a 172 with a crappy power id be investigating that...

-Rob
 

Lee

  BMW M2C


I take all RR results with a pinch of salt to be honest. Its on the 1/4 mile where it shows. Look at the guys with the R Sport ECU. The figures dont show massive gains, but how that power is delivered is evident on the strip.

Either way, Im still happy with the car but you can never have too much power. :devilish:
 

Tom

ClioSport Club Member
  EV (s)


Quote: Originally posted by RobFenn on 22 September 2003


All Clio Cup engines are bench tested for 172bhp, it would be interesting to know what renault do to the engines which dont quite make the grade..is there an obvious fault they put right..or do they not care and sell it anyway? If i had a 172 with a crappy power id be investigating that...

-Rob
Where did this come from? i have heard this but ive never seen any proof.

(Not that im doubting you of course)
 


I was told by Renault..hardly concrete..but the RR figures from Cup owners on here are consisently closer to the correct BHP, and i cant see it being coincidence considering the variance with 172s.

-Rob
 
  Nippy white cup


Quote: Originally posted by Lee M on 22 September 2003


I take all RR results with a pinch of salt to be honest. Its on the 1/4 mile where it shows. Look at the guys with the R Sport ECU. The figures dont show massive gains, but how that power is delivered is evident on the strip.

Either way, Im still happy with the car but you can never have too much power. :devilish:
Too right m8! ;). Its always nice too have a big power gain, but it isnt the be all and end all!

Mine only pulled 167.5BHP with the R-sport ECU but it was much quicker over the 1/4. ( 15.09 compared to 14.41 )
 


its not the power that makes a fast or slow 172 its the torque curve most 172s have a lul of about 500 rpm where the torque drops off and dont increase for about 500rpm between about 4k mark where as mine is literally instant pickup again after it drops off litteraly takes about 2rpm not the 500 on the other cars
 
  2005 Audi A3 3.2 Quattro


I always have my doubts about ANY bhp figutre produced because there just doesnt seem to be any standard way to measure power in bhp.

the 172 makes (or should make) 124kW (kiloWatts being an international standard)

You blokes have always stated that a 172 should make 169bhp yes in South Africa 124kW equates to 165bhp.

so you have to ask yourself...which bhp is being used to measure your cars power???
 

Rich-D

ClioSport Club Member
  E90 LCI 330d


Quote: Originally posted by Tomclio16v on 22 September 2003


All Clio Cup engines are bench tested for 172bhp, it would be interesting to know what renault do to the engines which dont quite make the grade..is there an obvious fault they put right..or do they not care and sell it anyway? If i had a 172 with a crappy power id be investigating that...
Where did this come from? i have heard this but ive never seen any proof.
Ive also heard this...
 

Rich-D

ClioSport Club Member
  E90 LCI 330d


Quote: Originally posted by viceroy on 22 September 2003


so you have to ask yourself...which bhp is being used to measure your cars power???
Its 172bhp (DIN) or 124kw (ISO) according to Renault UK mate...

Check the website!
 
  2005 Audi A3 3.2 Quattro


yeah but in SA we also use bhp on occasion but 124kW = 166bhp

Ill be getting my car RR sometime so Ill see then what it makes
 


In Australia its measured in Kw(ISO) therefore 172s have 124kw.

Ive seen some RR results of the 172s here.. So far the range is from 81kw to 85kw(in 4th gear) ATW for the standard car. Thats approximately a 30% drive train lose. I dont understand how some of you guys achieved a RR of 130bhp+ ATW, unless our cars are *that* much slower...
 
  2005 Audi A3 3.2 Quattro


Im estimating that Ill get 85kW at the wheels here, but thats because Im at high altitude.

Over the 1/4 mile Ive gone up against cars with a proven 85 - 90kW at the wheels and Ive slaughered them all by between .5 and 1 second
 


cheers for the feedback, i must say the car still surprises me with its pace, and its only cos my mate mentioned the tests at mg that id thought id see if any of you guys had noticed the same thing.

With all the inaccuracies involved with r/r testing i guess ill never be 100% what the actual output of my car is, and seeing as it is at least keeping up with cars that are on paper as fast or faster on the road, ill leave the r/r until i have enough cash for some serious engine mods - just to give a before and after.





Quote: Originally posted by sv_cup on 21 September 2003


got a mate working at MG who has been bench testing different engines and comparing them to their own ZR 160 engine. He said the ZR 160 came in at an average of 164bhp, the 206 180 came in at an average just shy of 179bhp, but the 172 only produced a maximum of 165bhp.

Has the MG mist completely clouded his vision and the figure was actually a lot closer to 172, or are the 172s actually that far off?

ive got a standard cup, although the engines are identical to the 172s and id like to know what bhp figures anyone else has had out of the standard 172 unit. i think im gonna get mine dynod at the end of the month just to see.








Sounds weird, they managed to get hold of a 180 206 engine and bench tested it? Im sure if you ordered the engine itself you would have to wait months and months! You would struggle to get hold of a 206 "180" right now, only demos running about I think.
neil28 - My mates on his placement year there and has been working in the motorsport part. Apparently its common practice for all car manufacturers to buy the very first examples of a rival manufacturers cars. MG had had the 206 180 for a while, and had stripped it completely to see exactly what Peugeot had done.
 


Quote: Originally posted by Chris nnic on 22 September 2003


Quote: Originally posted by Lee M on 22 September 2003


I take all RR results with a pinch of salt to be honest. Its on the 1/4 mile where it shows. Look at the guys with the R Sport ECU. The figures dont show massive gains, but how that power is delivered is evident on the strip.

Either way, Im still happy with the car but you can never have too much power. :devilish:
Too right m8! ;). Its always nice too have a big power gain, but it isnt the be all and end all!

Mine only pulled 167.5BHP with the R-sport ECU but it was much quicker over the 1/4. ( 15.09 compared to 14.41 )





Chris, did you cross the line in third gear when u did the 14.4? Want to know the best techique as im hopefully getting mine back on the strip (first time since R Sport ECU, also done another 6k miles so im hoping to improve on my last 14.8)
 
  Nippy white cup


No m8. The limiter seems to coming about the same point on the strip, but I am going faster by this point, but as it pulls better thruogh the gears, changing to forth aint to bad....apart from the loss of time thru actually changing gears lol
 


THe F4R730 comes with 166bhp, as said........

Its internal knowledge, dont ask my why, they just settled with it.......i did complain, but whats a complaint to a lazy fecker of a Frenchman who couldnt run his area if he tried.......especially when there is no coffee infront of him.
 
  182 cup pack


Guys we have measured 4 172s,and one 172 face lift.

I dont know what is going on with that car(I mean they have really differenses one car from another,when it comes to speak about power...)So the face lift 172,produced 178hp and 21,4 kg torgue @flywheel!!!!!One 172 mk2 produced 174hp and 21,1kg torgue another one 163 and 19,1kg and another one 175 and 20kg with reprogrammed ecu,supersprint catalyst rear backbox and bmc cda,so I guess that it was about 165hp and 19kg torgue at the beggining.

And on top of everything else a racing clio 2,0 rs groupN produced only mailto:178hp@flywheel">178hp and 21kg torgue at the flywheel.

Is that thing strange or what?

I personally believe that u must be lucky if your rs produces more than 168 and 20kg torgue.
 


Cheers BenR

So my mate at MG wasnt trying to wind me up (he is thinking of getting a ZR 160 and felt he had to point out the power similarities - still, it doesnt make the 160 any quicker, even according to the guys with 160s on http://www.TheMGZR160www.TheMGZR160 forum! - Check out how fast is it?) Still at least 166bhp is consistent!

I dont suppose Renault would be inclined to do anything about it if i went in and complained.
 


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