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And my cup RR results are in!!





Well its been quite a day. I decided to get the cup tested on a RR after being quite concerned about variying powers between them all, some bein norm some lucky ones very nice and some unlucky ones bein underpowered, and also because shes gonna get some work done in the next few weeks so i need to see b4 and after results!

So took the day off work and went to see David at Southern Carbs in Wimbledon as recommended by nick @ Hill power.

Dropped her in at 9.00 and at about an hour and a half later and five runs on the results were in!

David had put a 172 and a cup next to each other a few weeks back and he said how surprised he was at the cups performance as it was runnin around 171 at the f/w altho the 172 was hittin 164 and hes done others so they know what there doin. Anyway he came out with a hooge grin and said "your a lucky man" once readin my results i realised why!!! i got a fast one. He was really surpised himself!

Results read as: After 5 runs

Max Flywheel Value: 186bhp!!!! @6210rpm

Max ATW Value: 157bhp!! with torque @ 529 @5143rpm

i am astonished! and happy, in fact i thought she felt quite slow! hmmm

NOTE MY CAR IS STANDARD! He asked how id run her in and said whichever way it was that thats the way to go!

The only thing i noticed was the large drop from the F/W to ATW vlue i lost 29-30bhp is this right! i know paddy has got a fappy quick one, whats his at the f/w?

Either way today im a happy man! :D
 
  ICE'dberg MK2 172


Top result...you are indeed a lucky man

Are you doing either the Midland or Essex RR Days? if you are you should get a better comparison of power output.

Dont do any mods.....youll blow us all away;)
 


im not doin any of the rolling road days unfortunately but will scan my results to post when i get back to work. i know that some RR results can vary from place to place but even if mine was 10bhp too high its still happy goins! Altho im sure its not due to previous different 172 runs.

And sorry chris i am gettin some mods done! gulp hopin for a tidy little increase in bhp. good old nick @ hillpower ;) your mae geoff got me goin! LOL!

does anyone know if that 29bhp drop from f/w to atw is ok? in a cup?
 

Rich-D

ClioSport Club Member
  E90 LCI 330d


How was the @ fly figure done then?! From the machine?

I am very dubious of @ fly figures done on rolling roads, as they are usually a bit on the generous side at most places. What type of system have they got?

Anyone read the Puma Racing articles about rolling roads & transmission loss???

Look >>> http://www.pumaracing.co.uk/mainmenu.htmwww.pumaracing.co.uk/mainmenu.htm



However, 157bhp @ wheels is VERY good and Id be might happy if it were me. My 306 Rallye was recenetly RRd at 151bhp @ wheels and that is standard except for a Peugeot Sport Group N air filter (element), so I was also very happy! :D

Do you have the graph from the RR? If so, can you upload it?
 


ive got the graph but no scanner. will try in the week when back at work but i dont know what machine they used, im not really clued up on that knda stuf!

That rallye must be rapid, nicely fella, nicely.
 

Rich-D

ClioSport Club Member
  E90 LCI 330d


Yeah, if you could scan it in Id like a look at the power & torque curves, to see what theyre like. :)

Many rolling roads are a bit "generous" with the @ fly figure, so I like to work from the @ wheels figure, then use the mathematical method to work it out. Most fwd cars have a loss of about 15%, but Puma Racing, Bosch, VW, etc... have an equation which the use...

It is (mailto:bhp@wheels"> bhp @wheels + 10 / 0.9 In your case > (157 + 10) / 0.9 = 185.6bhp @ fly

That is basically the same as your rolling road figure @ fly, so must be a good one.

Wonder if all Cups are sneakily more powerful, or if youre just luck?!



The Rallye aint to shabby either... :D
 
  Nissan R35 GT-R


Rich-D: The RR measures the torque at the wheels through the revs and converts the figure to bhp.

The flywheel reading is only an estimate which comes about by measuring the drag on the run down and adding this to the wheel power figure.

DannyBoy: A very nice result indeed. Im not sure about the whole good 172s and bad 172s though. Youll find that different cars make different power depending on which RR they go to as well as many other parameters such as ambient air temperature etc. You could go back a week later and make only 160bhp @ flywheel.

One thing is for sure - you will not see any decreases after modifications and I eagerly await the results of the next RR session to compare against your benchmark.

Best of luck with the modifications.

Laurence.
 


thanks for the comments peeps, all appreciated. an ill defo let u know results after the mods!

rich-d it would be interestin to see one of those rallyes against a 172 i didnt realise they were that powerful.

Frosty - yeah i dont know if the vary thing is true or not, just a few things ive heard, and that poor guy in pgti mag. and from experience i defo know the old valvers did vary

But im glad it all seems ok! thanks again!

Paddy- if you read this what was your f/w result? did you get one?
 

Rich-D

ClioSport Club Member
  E90 LCI 330d


Frosty -

Yeah, I know how they work mate... just that the "guesstimate" @ fly figures can often be a bit on the high side. Thats what I was saying.

This is a graph from my old 106 GTi >>>

http://members.lycos.co.uk/Pug106GTi/Misc/RR_Print.jpg



You can see that in this case, the graph actually shows the @ wheels figure (in blue) then as it reaches the limiter, it drops and show the loss & run down, then gives an @ fly figure based on this. Normally you dont get this on a graph.

That was a Bosch system at Cooper & West in Manchester and is the actual one that Pipercross use to test their filters on. (A Clio 172 actually made 172bhp @ fly when I was there ;))
 
  Nissan R35 GT-R


Rich-D: You have a point there about the optimistic fw figures and I personally prefer to go by wheel power (or hub power as some of the new dynos measure).

Its pretty scary how accurate some of the new rollers can be though. ;)
 

Rich-D

ClioSport Club Member
  E90 LCI 330d


Yeah, I also prefer to use the @ wheels figure(s) when comparing cars done on different rolling roads, as this minimises any errors.

True about some of the newer rolling roads being very accurate, but there aint many of them about, most still seem to read a bit high @ fly.
 


I will be getting my cup on monday. Should have been today but my insurance company messed up on sending the cover note out so I cant get any tax.

So do I run it in or thrash it all the way????

Scott
 

Rich-D

ClioSport Club Member
  E90 LCI 330d


You should be gentle at first...

My mate blew a new engine up by just thrashing it from day one! :cry:
 
  mk2 172


i ran my car in for about 180 miles for the sake of the brakes and various bearings gearbox etc, then i started booting it all the time really.
 


We should go with Torque @ wheels and then BHP @ wheels.

Thats another good result for a Cup in the last few days. What was the torque at wheels figure (lbs/feet) DannyBoy?
 

Rich-D

ClioSport Club Member
  E90 LCI 330d


Yeah, what was the torque @ wheels?!

Those graphs would be helpful too, then we can compare to that other Cup...
 


Sorry guys i dont go on the net on weekends so couldnt reply.
Anyway thanks again for the feedback, all much appreciated, unfortunately due to stoopid money organisation i am now skint so any further mods are on hold fo a month or so. But im fone with that due to the current power figures.

Anyway i couldnt get a scanner, but i have brought my results to work with my little digi-camera thing so will take pics of the graphs and post them, wont be greatest qual but readable. Cant do it till lunch time tho. Till then i can tell you as req that the torque figures, max was approx mailto:161@6210">161@6210 when fly/w(186bhp) and atw(157bhp) figs were best, but the max figs for torque were 171.

Hope this helps, feedback welcome!
Dan
 


Also my car has done 3100miles now, i was kinda jubious about runnin in at the time, some peeps sayin thrash some sayin be gentle, so i went in between, drove sensibly most of the time, with a good thrash every now and then.
i didnt take it over 4000rpm for first 600miles, kinda....a good 0-60 sprint edging to 5000rpm, lovin that feeling, but not often. i kinda ragged it often to 4000rpm and the odd 5000. i hit 600miles on the way home from southend one night, so was constantly takin it to 5000 and the odd 5-5. after 1000miles i let go, still drive her sensibly, i dont rag all the time but when i do its to 6500rpm.

hope that helps too!
 


Nice one mate!! Gonna get mine done soon - getting quicker all the time - actually downshifted this weekend for the first time and it just flys !!! never needed to do that before coz overtaking in 4th was a doddle! Toasted a Boxter S too - left for dust! Saw a Focus RS the other night too - first one but he wasnt playing! Thats the thing though nobody will have a go other than corsa boys and those saxo things........Defo alot quicker than most people think, but who dont really know -specially standard 172 owners! ;) But dont forget if u throw an 89kg person in the passenger seat - hey presto u dont have a cup anymore just a boggo 172 -lol (I think not!). My cup defo hits 60 in 6.2 now with the Grp N filter and 100 in 16.5!

Any mods planned DannyB?
 


well she was due to go in for some hill power magic, but due to finances im broke, so thats on hold, and insurance is due end of feb so ouch!

BTW ive just taken some pics of the graphs as requested, but as im using my stylecam blink, (a little toy off firebox.com) u cant make it out, this camera is not for this kinda use obviously! ice got a proper digi cam at home so will haver to try tonight. Who will host them when ive done it? any takers?
 
  320d M Sport


Alright Danny! Sorry its took sooo long to reply! Dont know what the figure was for the fly, all i know is they measured it at mailto:152@Wheels">152@Wheels, i cant remember what revs that was at? Think it may have been around 6400??
 


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