BIGASH/FF-Racing X85 Clio Cup Racer Project

[BIGASH]

It usually has 0v printed on the plastic housing mate.

Can't find it might just run without alternator warning light if I can't find it soon lol

 

[NorthloopCup]

On most stuff you need the light so the alternator charges. I can check on mine, but not until tomorrow morning mate.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Can't find it might just run without alternator warning light if I can't find it soon lol

Its not just the light, its the excite wire too, without it your alternator wont charge.

 

[Tony Hunter]

Its not just the light, its the excite wire too, without it your alternator wont charge.

We found this out, not only were we having alternator issuse, but we had a cheap light installed.

 

[Kenny.s]

Can anyone help please? I need to know which pin on my alternator to wire my alternator warning light to? The dash says it wants to know 0v when its not charging so any of those metal studs okay?

Thanks

If it's a Cup alternator, it uses one of the two pins in the small rectangular (might be square) plug, which can just be seen behind that braided hose on the left of the picture.

I've got the plug cut out of my old loom so I know what pin to use but it's at the workshop, I'm at home, can check first thing in the morning if it's of any use?

The FF alternators just have the main output terminal 8mm stud, and a 5 or 6mm stud so they're easy to wire up.

On a 2 wire alternator, like the Cups have, the charge light needs to be a lamp, not an LED, if your using an LED you'll need to put a resistor in parrallel with it so there is sufficient current flow for the exciter circuit. I've used a 10w 33ohm aluminium clad type, which will result in about 4-5watts at 12v, most warning lights arent anymore than 5w

 

[BIGASH]

It worked all last year without any warning light as it wasn't wired in so if I just left it then it'd be as it was last season.

If it's a Cup alternator, it uses one of the two pins in the small rectangular (might be square) plug, which can just be seen behind that braided hose on the left of the picture.

I've got the plug cut out of my old loom so I know what pin to use but it's at the workshop, I'm at home, can check first thing in the morning if it's of any use?

The FF alternators just have the main output terminal 8mm stud, and a 5 or 6mm stud so they're easy to wire up.

On a 2 wire alternator, like the Cups have, the charge light needs to be a lamp, not an LED, if your using an LED you'll need to put a resistor in parrallel with it so there is sufficient current flow for the exciter circuit. I've used a 10w 33ohm aluminium clad type, which will result in about 4-5watts at 12v, most warning lights arent anymore than 5w

Yes Kenny it's the cup alternator, unfortunately the braided hose won't really shift so can't get access to the connector. Thanks for the offer mate My dash says to activate the warning light it want's to see 0V so I was hoping the 3 metal studs around the alternator would show 12v when running and obviously 0v when not but I guess i'm out of luck

 

[Kenny.s]

Not quite sure how it manages to charge without the warning light connected up, I guess once it's spinning fast enough it must manage to get it's self going.

Is that hose really that close to the alternator you couldnt get a wee plug in there? I'll be at the workshop soon, will dig it out anyway and let you know.

 

[Dan519]

these alternators don't need an exciter like earlier ones (williams etc). The charge light output it literally that, just an output to turn a light off.
If you look at a standard loom, one of the wires on the plug is blanked.

 

[BIGASH]

Not quite sure how it manages to charge without the warning light connected up, I guess once it's spinning fast enough it must manage to get it's self going.

Is that hose really that close to the alternator you couldnt get a wee plug in there? I'll be at the workshop soon, will dig it out anyway and let you know.

Yes its probably 1mm away and -10 so is pretty rigid Thanks Kenny!

these alternators don't need an exciter like earlier ones (williams etc). The charge light output it literally that, just an output to turn a light off.
If you look at a standard loom, one of the wires on the plug is blanked.

That explains why it worked last year then without thanks Dan.

Do you know if the 3 metal studs see 12v when alt is running or earths?

 

[Carbonraider]

Yes its probably 1mm away and -10 so is pretty rigid Thanks Kenny!

That explains why it worked last year then without thanks Dan.

Do you know if the 3 metal studs see 12v when alt is running or earths?

And it's also made by Peugeot/Citroen. bit of pointless info I found on mine when looking.

Thanks for the reply the other day ash may fire some more questions your way when building mine up. When is your first meeting/race.

 

[BIGASH]

Haha

No worries buddy 29th June I think it is at Cadwell, Can't wait!

 

[BIGASH]

Engine loom finished other than it needs the bulkhead connector putting on the end

Car is pretty much finished now, few odd's and ends to finish tomorrow and then next week when I have a few more days off I will take it down to Freds, connectors on and mapped and then good to go!

 

[dmallett]

Looks very tidy James!

 

[Kenny.s]

these alternators don't need an exciter like earlier ones (williams etc). The charge light output it literally that, just an output to turn a light off.
If you look at a standard loom, one of the wires on the plug is blanked.

Ahhaa, didnt realise these where a single wire type. I've wired my car to take a 3-wire if needs be but it can easily be changed to suit a single wire. May go for a smaller (lightweight) alternator at some point.

 

[Kenny.s]

Engine loom finished other than it needs the bulkhead connector putting on the end

Car is pretty much finished now, few odd's and ends to finish tomorrow and then next week when I have a few more days off I will take it down to Freds, connectors on and mapped and then good to go!

Looking good, what type of wire have you used, Raychem 44 or 55 ?

 

[BIGASH]

Looks very tidy James!

Thanks Dan Still might be dragging it with me to the Ring can't decide

Looking good, what type of wire have you used, Raychem 44 or 55 ?

Thanks Kenny! I didn't use Raychem in the end looked at it fairly extensively but just chose thinwall pvc wire in the end, for what i'm doing it should be fine (I hope )

I wish I had used Raychem heatshrink for the engine loom though although it only took a few hours to do so could always make another and keep this as a spare.

 

[Kenny.s]

Why do you wish you'd used different heatshrink?
DR25 is the mainstay of Motorsport looms but its very expensive and probably overkill for most applications.

I've been using a tyco heatshrink (not sure who owns who but they're linked with Raychem anyway) can't recall the part number off hand but its pretty reasonably priced and it's good quality. I tested some of in a tub of petrol, left it for 2 days and its still ok so I'm sure it'll cope fine with the odd splash of fuel, oil etc.

 

[dmallett]

Bring it to the ring James, you know you want too

 

[BIGASH]

Why do you wish you'd used different heatshrink?
DR25 is the mainstay of Motorsport looms but its very expensive and probably overkill for most applications.

I've been using a tyco heatshrink (not sure who owns who but they're linked with Raychem anyway) can't recall the part number off hand but its pretty reasonably priced and it's good quality. I tested some of in a tub of petrol, left it for 2 days and its still ok so I'm sure it'll cope fine with the odd splash of fuel, oil etc.

TDF did my original engine loom in DR25 and it just seem to remain a little more flexible and also shrinks down in a uniform shape. The motorsport electronics guy who's doing the connectors for me uses tyco for all his stuff so i'm sure you'll be fine

Bring it to the ring James, you know you want too

I want to but not sure I can be bothered with all that towing lol

 

[Kenny.s]

The difference in flexibility could also be down to how the loom is built, ideally all the cores want to be laid in concentricly twisted layers, each one in the opposite direction from the previous. If your a professional loom builder then this will be second nature but for your average Joe, quite tricky and time consuming.
I've done small sections like this before but I dont think I'll attempt it for all the looms i've got to do for this car.
I have another plan which should result in a flexible loom, be fluid proof and be easier to assemble.
I'll wait and see what it turns out like before I disclose anymore

 

[Fred@BTM]

warning light on a race car - if it comes on, you've already lost the race, therefore a bit pointless no?

 

[Tony Hunter]

warning light on a race car - if it comes on, you've already lost the race, therefore a bit pointless no?

'Tis true.

 

[Jay Payne]

warning light on a race car - if it comes on, you've already lost the race, therefore a bit pointless no?

same as guages then?

 

[Tony Hunter]

Gauges, what gauges.

 

[Richyy182]

Just got home and greeted by my new calipers thanks to Jetstream Motorsport (the people who make the Alcon kit for the clios) for the speedy delivery

these look epic

 

[Adam G]

Gauges, what gauges.

Your ears when you hear something go bang?

 

[BIGASH]

The difference in flexibility could also be down to how the loom is built, ideally all the cores want to be laid in concentricly twisted layers, each one in the opposite direction from the previous. If your a professional loom builder then this will be second nature but for your average Joe, quite tricky and time consuming.
I've done small sections like this before but I dont think I'll attempt it for all the looms i've got to do for this car.
I have another plan which should result in a flexible loom, be fluid proof and be easier to assemble.
I'll wait and see what it turns out like before I disclose anymore

Could be although the old engine loom was just laid in the same way I have done this one but I suppose the Raychem wire TDF used could of also added to the flexibility. Will be good to see what you do Getting rid of the stock loom was definitely the way to go.

warning light on a race car - if it comes on, you've already lost the race, therefore a bit pointless no?

Pointless for it helping to finish a race but if it saves other damage that costs money then no I didn't bother with the alternator warning light though

these look epic

Thanks hopefully they are as good as the ones I had last year as they were very good!

 

[msa197]

Update pics please.

 

[BIGASH]

Update pics please.

Sorry Mike not had chance to do an update for ages on here I'll try and do one tonight or tomorrow night before I go away

 

[Space Cadet]

Don't forget the pictures..............!!

 

[chrispy.clio]

I've not raced my Clio, but when I'm in the zone on a trackday and driving quickly I would be too busy to look at a dash!

Looking forward to seeing the next update!

 

[Tony Hunter]

I've not raced my Clio, but when I'm in the zone on a trackday and driving quickly I would be too busy to look at a dash!

Looking forward to seeing the next update!

You'd be surprised, I waved to Dan and his mate, as I picked them out at Combe going into Camp corner lol.

 

[NorthloopCup]

You'd be surprised, I waved to Dan and his mate, as I picked them out at Combe going into Camp corner lol.

​Poser!!! Lol!

 

[BIGASH]

Update time!

Right so it was the end of February since I did a proper update on here so sorry if you have seen this stuff on facebook as I know thats been busy recently which is great

The main things that have been going on are the slow jobs of making little brackets and the wiring. I'm going to let the pictures do the talking but I will warn you there certainly are alot of photos!

Critical controls on small control panel


Bracket made for oil catch tank


Bracket made for switch panel

Wraping the new bumper courtesy of BTM





Fibreglass boot fitted and wrapped


Switch panel powdercoated and labelled

Gearbox mount cut down


Catch tank mounted

False floors for electronics on passenger side and to give flat floor for drivers side

Making a start on running the looms

Lots of time spent planning and writing out what wires go where etc

Fibreglass doors thanks to CMComposites

Fancy bleed valves to try and avoid the need for new callipers

New door cards supplied by CMComposites

More looming

Connectors for heated screen

Earths

Connectors to make the dash simple to remove

Pit to car radio arrives

False floors laquered

Finally time to get the car outside

Making battery cables


Fuse and relay board

Mess in progress

Working out the best layout

Fitting pit to car radio

Fitting fibreglass doors

Got to keep well fed on BBQ's

Had to resort to buying new callipers

Helmet kit for pit to car radio

Rivnutting floor to allow quick and easy access to change any components

Fitting the transponder

Engine loom

Repairing the car

Battery cables


Making a proper bracket for the datalogger instead of using sticky tape like last year

Fibreglass doors wrapped

Sprayshack bonnet on Has to be on of my favourite parts on the car!

Door cards fitted

Cleaning off all the months of dust

Inside complete bar wiring connectors

So that's the car pretty much finished! It will get the connectors fitted onto the loom in the next couple of weeks and then can be mapped. Sprayshack are just doing a few bits for me and then hopefully RiadArianeMedia can get some great shots of the car complete before I go and have some fun in it! Mapping/shake down should happen at either an airfield or Teeside and then onto Cadwell to learn the circuit/ test the car ready for the first race.

It has taken alot longer than I planned and cost more than I wanted to spend but I just wanted to be right! I'm really happy with the final outcome and a massive thanks to all the support and also the help along the way to name just a few, Fred@BTM, Simon@Sprayshack, Rob@RGEngineering, Chris@CMComposites, Jay, Mark, Chip, Mick and many many others I look forward to seeing you all out there for the rest of the season and fingers crossed it goes much smoother than last year.

Just a reminder the racing calendar for the car this year is a mixture of CSCC Tintops and also French trophy events and goes as follows:

30th June Cadwell Park CSCC
3rd August Mallory Park French Trophy
24th August Donington CSCC
31st August Cadwell Park French Trophy
21st September Oulton CSCC
28th September Oulton French Trophy

Cadwell should be great, i'm taking a few days off work and really making a weekend of it so all are welcome to come and join in will be taking the BBQ and having a good catch up and I know lots of people are coming along so will be a good to see even more faces along if you fancy it!

Finally time for me to go on holiday for a few days and have a break (Don't worry still car orientated ) Thanks for reading as always really appreciate the support and feedback whether good or bad.

James

 

[sonny172cup]

Amazing work there James, the attention to detail is out of this world. It seems a shame to drive it on track lol

Good luck for the racing season mate, hopefully get to see this car in the metal prior to Spa at some point.

​

 

[NorthloopCup]

That looks absolutely mint James!! I'm really really impressed! You've certainly shown that you've come on a long way in all areas since all the disasters from last year!

 

[sonny172cup]

James is your heated window poly or glass?

 

[Kenny.s]

You've been busy James! Looks great.

 

[msa197]

Great work James.

Glad your pleased!

 

[Adam G]

Really nice James. Attention to detail is superb (if a little over the top) but that's up to you and obviously gives you pride and satisfaction, so fair play to you mate.