BIGASH/FF-Racing X85 Clio Cup Racer Project

[Cup_Phil]

^^ Careful that's not the beginning of the end curse mate. Since I became a full time web developer I lost all interest for doing it in my own time.
My mates that went into proper motorsport engineering all drive diesel bangers now lol

 

[Toastfrenzy]

I tried teaching off shore sailing, stopped after a year as didn't like doing my hobby as a job.

 

[Tony Hunter]

I played less and less golf after starting greenkeeping.

 

[Neal 182]

Really need to pull my finger out and finish the car off! Very little still to do but finding it difficult spending everyday working with other peoples car to then find the motivation to do my own lol! I'll go and send off my Oulton entry form now for FT so that should provide a bit of motivation to do something on it soon

Welcome to my would lol

 

[BIGASH]

Yes not ideal lol!

All entered for Oulton now Need to test beforehand and can't decide between a morning at Mallory or the day before at Oulton

 

[dinger]

I know its more expensive but I'm sure you would get a lot more out of booking the Oulton test day James,

I'll be doing the afternoon session on the Friday, also sent my entry for the race, Hopefully talk to you this time, lol

 

[BIGASH]

Yes Dave its true my only worry is that I will have an issue on the test day and then no time to sort for the following day

Haha yes definitely! I'll be heading over Thursday night I think if i'm testing on the Friday

 

[mitsiman]

Are you not doing the CSCC tintops the week before?

 

[Tony Hunter]

It doesn't grow on trees you know.

 

[mitsiman]

I know, it comes out of a hole in the wall.

 

[Tony Hunter]

I've seen you with holes in the wall, you can get arrested you know.

 

[aucky]

Brilliant

 

[Nick172Cup]

I've seen you with holes in the wall, you can get arrested you know.

Lol.

 

[Martin.]

Really need to pull my finger out and finish the car off! Very little still to do but finding it difficult spending everyday working with other peoples car to then find the motivation to do my own lol! I'll go and send off my Oulton entry form now for FT so that should provide a bit of motivation to do something on it soon

I didn't know you were a mechanic.

 

[BIGASH]

Are you not doing the CSCC tintops the week before?

Unfortunately not Ian, It was my plan to do it and share the car with someone to spilt the costs but didn't come off so had to give it a miss and doing the FT at Oulton and Donny! Can't wait for Oulton now though will be great

 

[mitsiman]

Ashley and Danny are driving the Clio at Outon this weekend, i'm just spannering for them. As long as they look after it I'll see you the week after! Although I would love to I'm not doing Donington because its the week before the Birkett so it would be tempting fate I think.

 

[Tony Hunter]

Ashley and Danny are driving the Clio at Outon this weekend, i'm just spannering for them. As long as they look after it I'll see you the week after! Although I would love to I'm not doing Donington because its the week before the Birkett so it would be tempting fate I think.

Getting too old to do Oulton 2 weeks in a row

 

[BIGASH]

Ashley and Danny are driving the Clio at Outon this weekend, i'm just spannering for them. As long as they look after it I'll see you the week after! Although I would love to I'm not doing Donington because its the week before the Birkett so it would be tempting fate I think.

Best of luck to them I hope they get a good result I'm working Saturday otherwise i'd of come over to watch! Shame your not doing Donington Ian but I know what you mean about being risky! If you ever need to borrow any panel or parts you know where I am

 

[BIGASH]

Car is finished and started on the button first time

Just need to put it on the ground and then refit the strut brace and send it for geo.

It has had all wheel bearing replaced, new studs and nuts all round, new rear discs, modified the rear rose joint holders in the rear beam, gearbox rebuilt and resealed, compression tested and timing checked on the engine (all mint), a full spanner check, some hammering action on the front chassis bit that got slightly bent, a new aerocatch where the old one had sheared off, all new front hubs and modification to improve the roll centres and eliminate bump steer (excited about this bit) Would like to try and dial the cams in before next weekend but can't see i'm going to get time to do it and map to suit so will probably just have to leave it.

The beautiful machining work that has been carried out on the hub kit! It's like a work of art I could stare at it all day

Custom designed spherical bearing holders

Bump steer kit

Really looking forward to trying out the new suspension modifications should be great judging by how well they went on the other car they have been tested on around the Ring!

Thanks for reading and I'll see everyone at Oulton next weekend where I'm testing on the Friday and Racing on the Saturday with the French Trophy!

James

 

[NorthloopCup]

That is all.

 

[Tony Hunter]

The finished looks good Mark, very nice indeed.

 

[Scrooge]

Wow! Looking great!

 

[aucky]

Hubs etc look awesome! I'll come have a look on Saturday

 

[Toastfrenzy]

Like that!

 

[MG cup]

Looks very nice lads, did you opt to increase the camber a little with the kit? No modifications needed for steering arms either?

 

[Jamie86]

They do look great be good to see what difference they make!

 

[Martin.]

Wow that all looks amazing!!!

I saw on FB you said the kits would be for sale eventually, would I likely need a mortgage to be able to afford it? lol.

 

[Russ Rallye]

Mark where's my set! They look good James be interested to hear what you think of them.
Russ

 

[NorthloopCup]

The finished looks good Mark, very nice indeed.

Thanks Tony! Surely you never expected anything less though! Lol!

Looks very nice lads, did you opt to increase the camber a little with the kit? No modifications needed for steering arms either?

I'm going to assume you mean track width Morgan rather than camber? No increase in camber but a small increase in track width. Zero modifications required other than to the hub itself. It's a well thought through trick design. And what makes it worse is that it WORKS!! In fact it works very very well!

 

[Hoofy]

James,

I'd be really interested to know what you paid for the constituent parts.... 'cause we've done this, but instead of getting a machined elogated pin on the bottom of the hub we've lifted the pick up points on the subframe! This caused a couple of clearances issues, so I think the way round you've got it is a much better packaged solution. We saw a good increase in lat acc on the logger and it certainly feels considerably better.

 

[MG cup]

Yeah I meant track width which gives you the camber without the need for the wheel to move on a different plane to the shock absorber. I.e camber bolts.

looks nice it does, are the hub and RCA pin of dissimilar metals, could you weld them together if needed.

 

[Chip-mk1]

If doing as a kit, I would make the wishbone balljoint holders a bit longer and then either sell them without holes, or get people to specify the amount of extra track they want do you can drill the holes for them in a difference place, as it would be such a trivial way to increase track width a bit (seeing as its a safe assumption that if you are buying this kit then you are lowered and running more camber anyway so the driveshafts end up longer than ideal anyway so 10mm or so extra track from a longer balljoint holder would just put them back to where they want to be in the first place)

 

[Hoofy]

If you increase the track by more than 10mm... the driveshafts will pop out! We learnt that the hard way trust me. We've ended up 30mm further out each side, but with longer driveshafts to suit.

 

[mark123]

Looks nice.

What needs modifying on the hub? Just the TRE hole?

 

[Chip-mk1]

If you increase the track by more than 10mm... the driveshafts will pop out! We learnt that the hard way trust me. We've ended up 30mm further out each side, but with longer driveshafts to suit.

Yeah 10mm is where I would pitch it, as mentioned in my reply, although TBH its easy enough to run a slimmer nut and washer on the outside of CV joint and to put a washer the other side of the hub to stop the CV going in quite as far, we did it like that on a couple of valvers to run williams track width but with the cheaper and readily available valver shafts.

 

[Hoofy]

Yeah 10mm is where I would pitch it, as mentioned in my reply, although TBH its easy enough to run a slimmer nut and washer on the outside of CV joint and to put a washer the other side of the hub to stop the CV going in quite as far, we did it like that on a couple of valvers to run williams track width but with the cheaper and readily available valver shafts.

We tried that too, made a little spacer on the lathe... It helped a bit, but you've gotta be really careful 'cause you're moving the pivot point of the CV away from the hub and you'll have less spline engagement. A bit too much torque and a bit too much lock and you could easily snap it off. Hence why we just picked a good value and got shafts friction welded to fit properly.

 

[Chip-mk1]

We tried that too, made a little spacer on the lathe... It helped a bit, but you've gotta be really careful 'cause you're moving the pivot point of the CV away from the hub and you'll have less spline engagement. A bit too much torque and a bit too much lock and you could easily snap it off. Hence why we just picked a good value and got shafts friction welded to fit properly.

Yeah its only good for small increases, and TBH the lack of thread limits you anyway, doubt you could manage more than 10mm tops, but I was thinking more like 5mm on top of the 10mm or so you will already get away with to give a total of 30mm increase in track overall, its better for the ackerman angles than big spacers. And like you say once you are confident you have it right just get some shafts made for peace of mind if budget allows.

 

[Cup_Phil]

I wouldn't want to drill my own holes in the wishbone balljoint holder when I could just fit 10mm spacers.

 

[NorthloopCup]

Yeah I meant track width which gives you the camber without the need for the wheel to move on a different plane to the shock absorber. I.e camber bolts.

looks nice it does, are the hub and RCA pin of dissimilar metals, could you weld them together if needed.

Yes mate hub and pin are 2 different metals and there's no way I'd even consider doing that tbh. That's the fast way to staring a failure right in the face.

If doing as a kit, I would make the wishbone balljoint holders a bit longer and then either sell them without holes, or get people to specify the amount of extra track they want do you can drill the holes for them in a difference place, as it would be such a trivial way to increase track width a bit (seeing as its a safe assumption that if you are buying this kit then you are lowered and running more camber anyway so the driveshafts end up longer than ideal anyway so 10mm or so extra track from a longer balljoint holder would just put them back to where they want to be in the first place)

I actually run my personal set at 10mm wider (so 20mm wider overall) on the cup and I've been out as far as 15mm without driveshaft issues. If this were to go ahead as a kit for anyone I'd either go no more than 5mm per wheel, or leave it on standard track width. The main reason for this is that not everyone will have enough adjustment to get the camber back to where they want it, and the other is that to supply it un-drilled to drill it yourself would require a machine shop anyway due to the metal thats used. This is the real deal here, no mickey mouse monkey metal. I've looked and tried every option whilst developing it as well. Having the ability to run wider track width without the use of spacers also improves how these little cars drive/handle imeasureably, so it may go out as a 5mm track width widening (10mm overall). I had 20mm hubcentric spacers on mine and whilst it looked awesome, it drove w**k imo. The scrub geometry/radius is just moved to far out.
I know people race on hubcentric spacers and get good results, but that's still not to say its right.

 

[Chip-mk1]

I actually run my personal set at 10mm wider (so 20mm wider overall) on the cup

Sensible place to be IMHO

and I've been out as far as 15mm without driveshaft issues.

If you were selling to someone with a phase 1, they could probably do 20mm per side just by using ph2/cup shafts?

If this were to go ahead as a kit for anyone I'd either go no more than 5mm per wheel, or leave it on standard track width. The main reason for this is that not everyone will have enough adjustment to get the camber back to where they want it

Id quite like a kit for my mk1 (172 hubs and wishbones so would fit) which currently bottoms out the shafts, so I'd need it wider.

and the other is that to supply it un-drilled to drill it yourself would require a machine shop anyway due to the metal thats used. This is the real deal here, no mickey mouse monkey metal.

I assume you just mean a decent pillar drill would suffice rather than specifically needing a lathe as even stainless will normally go ok on a pillar drill if using the right drill bits.

I've looked and tried every option whilst developing it as well. Having the ability to run wider track width without the use of spacers also improves how these little cars drive/handle imeasureably, so it may go out as a 5mm track width widening (10mm overall).

I think you should give people the option to choose but make them aware of the issues, seems a waste of time making so many changes to the car and then compromising on not allowing people more track width which as you say and why Ive mentioned it before is far better increased inboard of the hubs than outboard where it moves the wheel centre relative to the steering arm.

I had 20mm hubcentric spacers on mine and whilst it looked awesome, it drove w**k imo. The scrub geometry/radius is just moved to far out.
I know people race on hubcentric spacers and get good results, but that's still not to say its right.

Agreed, ive got 30mm on my ph1 (just for brake clearance, something im looking to reduce but would like to get the width back elsewhere so will probably either move the wishbones out or use something like your kit to do it) and its ruined the feel of the car even though it does still corner with a decent apex speed.