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Burpspeed Version 2: Race Car Build
- Thread starter Jay Payne
- Start date
Nice one Tony 
Clio Trophy #343
well done tony
The 306 BTCC cars I've seen don't have the original engines or gearboxes in. Surely sequential boxes are banned anyway?
I've been out on track with one and they're not as fast as you think they will be.
From memory they're about 250/260bhp but they weigh quite a bit more than a clio.
Should be interesting I think
At the moment the Clios do walk away with every race - might be nice to get some other french cars in the mix
I've been out on track with one and they're not as fast as you think they will be.
From memory they're about 250/260bhp but they weigh quite a bit more than a clio.
Should be interesting I think
At the moment the Clios do walk away with every race - might be nice to get some other french cars in the mix
182cup & 172 racecar
Raced against two of them for 3yrs phil.
They are quick. Track day and race day are two different things mate. I just do a track day for a bit of fun, never go race pace. So don't be fooled.
They are quick. Track day and race day are two different things mate. I just do a track day for a bit of fun, never go race pace. So don't be fooled.
Fair enough - I realised they would be quicker on a race day - it's just people talk about them like they're a BTCC car which they aren't.
The sad thing is it's far cheaper to make a competitive 306/106/saxo etc.. than it is a clio. Clios just seem to be a bit of a pig to get power out of and parts prices compared to 106's are stuuuupid. I remember being able to buy a full cage for £150 and a full throttle body setup for £600.
As the french series pads out I think the clio owners will struggle unless they have very deep pockets
The sad thing is it's far cheaper to make a competitive 306/106/saxo etc.. than it is a clio. Clios just seem to be a bit of a pig to get power out of and parts prices compared to 106's are stuuuupid. I remember being able to buy a full cage for £150 and a full throttle body setup for £600.
As the french series pads out I think the clio owners will struggle unless they have very deep pockets
I dont agree Phil,
Throttle bodies are throttle bodies which ever car you are putting it on and engine internals are the same,
I built a Pug 205 for stockhatch a few years back and was no where near the spec of my clio and still it was over the 6K mark, I'd hazard a guess at the price of the engine in that Sazo at Oulton to be around the 6 grand.
Throttle bodies are throttle bodies which ever car you are putting it on and engine internals are the same,
I built a Pug 205 for stockhatch a few years back and was no where near the spec of my clio and still it was over the 6K mark, I'd hazard a guess at the price of the engine in that Sazo at Oulton to be around the 6 grand.
You don't agree that £600 is cheaper than £1800? Or you don't agree that £150 is cheaper than £600?
What have engine internals got to do with price?
I'm so confused.
You're stockhatch 205 cost £6k? My suspension/bodies/brakes and cage cost that alone! I've spent well over £10k on a casual track day car. Clio's are expensive cars for parts.
What have engine internals got to do with price?
I'm so confused.
You're stockhatch 205 cost £6k? My suspension/bodies/brakes and cage cost that alone! I've spent well over £10k on a casual track day car. Clio's are expensive cars for parts.
Second hand Cit/Pug parts are so cheap, far cheaper than the Renault equivalents. You can definitely build a much more competitive Cit/Pug with the right second hand parts for cheaper than a Clio. If my race car didn't owe me under £2,000 including spare wheels, tyres, brakes etc I'd now always go down building a Cit/Pug race car.
I think you've made your own point there Phil,
My stockhatch car was built with second hand leda's. no throttle bodies, no big brakes, wasnt allowed poly bushes, and had standard managemnt,.
Cages have risen in price, unles you have an old model and OMP have old stock they are trying to get rid of, for instance, the MK1 Clio cage exactly the same as my cage for a 172 is half the price from OMP,,,,
you couldnt make a competitive 106/306 without uprated internals as standard GTI6 lumps are 150 bhp.
My point is that turning a road going car to a race car costs money, no matter what car it is,
When were you paying £600 for bodies and £150 for a cage????? 1999?
My stockhatch car was built with second hand leda's. no throttle bodies, no big brakes, wasnt allowed poly bushes, and had standard managemnt,.
Cages have risen in price, unles you have an old model and OMP have old stock they are trying to get rid of, for instance, the MK1 Clio cage exactly the same as my cage for a 172 is half the price from OMP,,,,
you couldnt make a competitive 106/306 without uprated internals as standard GTI6 lumps are 150 bhp.
My point is that turning a road going car to a race car costs money, no matter what car it is,
When were you paying £600 for bodies and £150 for a cage????? 1999?
Second hand I would agree, there is much more available for the pug scene, I suppose its down to supply and demand.
I'm sorry whut?
You can build a 106 with 170bhp on standard internals.
And a 106 weighs around 800kg when gutted, which gives is a pretty competitive power to weight ratio.
What's the gti6 lump (which is poo btw) got to do with a 106?
1999? No - 3 years ago. And I could get them for the same now.
The way you keep referencing XU lumps I suspect the last time you built one was 1999.
Dafuq would I know though I only ran the worlds largest 106 owners club for 6 years lol
It was a healthy debate - I simply pointed out it's far cheaper to build a competitive pug/citroen than it is to build a competitive clio especially as it's very hard to get gains from the clio engine without spending a fortune.
A point which everyone else seems to have grasped but you seem to have got lost in an argument about XU gti6 engined 205's
Some days I really do think people on here struggle with english
A point which everyone else seems to have grasped but you seem to have got lost in an argument about XU gti6 engined 205's
Some days I really do think people on here struggle with english
Depends what you class as competitive, 260bhp/800kg? Are clio's really as bad to tune than is made out..... I would say no. A reliable 215bhp , 180-90lbft for 4k easily buying new isn't a massive amount in my book.
Up to a certain level they can't be beaten for bang to buck.
Up to a certain level they can't be beaten for bang to buck.
182cup & 172 racecar
Fetch my Zimma Frame.
Phil, I'm not here for an arguement, Nor am I here to be mis quoted!
I understand that its cheaper to build a competative Pug than a Clio, I disagreed that you could get throttle bodies for a peugeot cheaper than a Renault, (new) also a roll cage from the same supplier is not cheaper from model to model to a point where it cost £150 for a full cage, ( as we are talking about racing)
I agrred that second hand upgrade parts are cheaper in the pug scene
you brought up the 306 model which I reference the GTI6 model, Not in 106.
I have never got lost in an arguement about XU gti6 engine 106's as I never mentioned them.
I understand English fully ( may not be able to write it though)
The AT Power bodies are cheaper on a 106 than either jenvey or AT's on a clio, and that's if you ignore the very succesful gsxr bike bodies kit Sandy Brown produces which is nearly half the price.
The 106 OMP cage is £100 cheaper than a clio OMP cage (brand new from same supplier)
And that's bending to your (new) rule which I never stated - I just said it was cheaper to build one, I didn't say with new parts.
2nd hand (which you'd clearly use if you were building to a budget) you can have a cage for £150 - whereas 2nd hand clio cages are still £400+. You can have bodies significantly cheaper too whereas clio jenvey kits go for nearly retail price. In fact I've seen throttle bodied, cam'd 106 engines sell for less than a set of bodies on a clio.
182cup & 172 racecar
ENOUGH!!!
Tony should build a 106 for next year, that's what I was getting at.
That's kinda what I was getting at too lol
If the clio shell is too bent - and ex BTCC 306's are turning up - it would bankrupt someone trying to get a clio competitive again.
So is it the fact that there are many more models of Peugeot/Citroen that are getting modified, Ie, 106,206,205,306,Saxo,C1,C2 and so on that the market is flooded with second hand stuff? Or are Clio owners just stupid and will pay anything to gain 5hp cause he read it somewhere on the internet... Because remember it can only be 1% of the enthusiast population who are building race cars.
Cant remember who I was speaking to the other day but they were saying alot of their stuff has come fron USA with a huge saving over buying it here,,,, stuff like engine managment and bodies,
I'm surprised that we havnt seen more 750MC stockhatchers come across to the French Trophy the Saxo's and 106's are always front runners.
Cant remember who I was speaking to the other day but they were saying alot of their stuff has come fron USA with a huge saving over buying it here,,,, stuff like engine managment and bodies,
I'm surprised that we havnt seen more 750MC stockhatchers come across to the French Trophy the Saxo's and 106's are always front runners.
So, who's going to the CS Christmas party?
WRX
Table for two I think Pete!
Getting smaller feet op on the NHS now? (can't afford private)
182cup & 172 racecar
Lol. No touching toes.
NorthloopCup
ClioSport Moderator
I know where there's a very, very, very competitive 306 that may possibly be available if your interested Mr H?
I saw the weather and I was one of the people glad I wasn't racing - Got a set of full wet Dunlop SPs though, we used to run them in Eurosaloons and Britcar, we ran them on the Clio in the winter series at Anglesey and went 6 seconds a lap faster than we had qualified on A048's
182cup & 172 racecar
Tyres . As Adam said, and as per my text, glad you weren't there in the nicest possible way .
But missed you really.
Anyway, you didn't answer me, what's the crack on Sat, I know it's garage #1.
. As Adam said, and as per my text, glad you weren't there in the nicest possible way .But missed you really.
Anyway, you didn't answer me, what's the crack on Sat, I know it's garage #1.
FLOL,
Did anyone else see the comment over on the other forum?
I'm glad you wasnt there too Ian,,,,, but we still love you:rasp:
182cup & 172 racecar
Well, all I can say is, thank goodness the last race was a wet one. Checked the brakes today, and there is nothing left!! 1/2 mm and thats about it.
Wheels took me over an hr to get clean, and that was leaving them with loads of Wonder Wheels stuff on them, talk about red and gooey.
That's them away for the winter anyway, one job off the long list.
Going to Silverstone tomorrow, to cheer on me old mukker Mr Collins in the Birket relay.
Not touching the car yet. Thought about doing the closed wheel invitation race at Silverstone next week, with the Walter Hayes Trophy lot, but I don't want to push my luck with the car, so that's it, season over.
Wheels took me over an hr to get clean, and that was leaving them with loads of Wonder Wheels stuff on them, talk about red and gooey.
That's them away for the winter anyway, one job off the long list.
Going to Silverstone tomorrow, to cheer on me old mukker Mr Collins in the Birket relay.
Not touching the car yet. Thought about doing the closed wheel invitation race at Silverstone next week, with the Walter Hayes Trophy lot, but I don't want to push my luck with the car, so that's it, season over.
Cub.
ClioSport Moderator
A good season it was too! Well done bud. Plans for next season, or are they secret? X
182cup & 172 racecar
Pug 106 with a Sandy Brown engine?
