Clio 172 phase 1 turbo

[Chip-mk1]

Would the car still have the 5K kick even with the turbo or will that be mapped out?

You can still really feel the change in VE at around 5K or so mate although on the 197 inlet its a little more gradual than on the 172 one, I think to cure that problem would probably require a decent inlet manifold instead, something like an RS2 or the one I made for mk1 would be ideal to help flatten the torque curve and make it more drivable.

I can however let it make a little more boost just before that point and a little less just after using the ecu to control it as part of the map if I find its a big issue, will see how I get on first.

 

[Silent_Scone]

Fast work lads, going to be a potent little car

 

[Chip-mk1]

Yeah it feels keen already. Done 400 miles now so by the time I drive home it will be over 600 so just needs an oil change then I can start mapping it with a bit more boost.

 

[Paul172sport]

Famous last words. Just a little more boost.

 

[McGherkin]

I guarantee if it doesn't max out the rollers at the RR meet, Chip WILL crank up the boost until it does.

 

[Chip-mk1]

FLOL!

Honestly mate you seem a lot more bothered about that than I am.

Bottom line is wether its 260bhp, 280bhp, 300bhp it really isnt going to make a significant difference to what it drives like on track either way, if I was chasing power I would have fitted a bigger turbo and a bigger intercooler, ive got other cars to drive if I want to go nutty quick in a straight line, thats not what this car is about, and also its only a stop-gap till the mk1 is turbo'd this isnt intended as some massive project, I just want it to be a nice to drive car on the road to make it pleasant to take to trackdays and then to be fairly quick on track, im not trying to set any lap records or anything like that, I'd be happy if its the same performance as before realistically so long as it all stays in one piece and drives nicely.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Famous last words. Just a little more boost.

I dont mean more than before, just more than im running it in with.

Everyone seems to think cause ive gone forged I want massive power, but I dont, I know that there is no reason the core engine should happily make 500bhp with the right manifold/turbo/intercooler/injectors added, but Ive not upgraded any of those items as its not more power I want, the reason for going forged was just cause thats what a high revving turbo engine should be, not cause I wanted more power.

 

[Paul172sport]

I know what your aiming for and to be honest that's why I like this build so much have done since day 1.

I don't care about what it runs on rollers I just want something fun to drive on roads and reasonable performance if that's 250 fine if 280 its no big deal long as its a smile on my face.

Back on job hunt so hopefully can recover from my redundancy and save for parts to boost mine up.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Exactly mate. Bottom line is even 250 in a Clio is plenty quick enough to enjoy much more and you just go breaking things more often if you use it hard.

good luck with the job hunting.

 

[Paul172sport]

Cheers mate. The snow and ice are welcome to me being in insurance claims business so another few cold spells please.

Yes reckon 250 would be plenty. My vectra ran 300 and that was fun so in Clio being lighter and nimbler then 250 I'm sure is adequate

 

[Chip-mk1]

Well its fully run in now and I've got a few more rpm now too. Me and mike from Mwm went out for a meal tonight and he had his laptop with him from doing some other mapping so I nicked his laptop and chucked him in the drivers seat and I got him to drive round the m25 while i gave it a quick map on low boost upto 7500rpm.

Feels great so far. Can't wait to change the oil at the weekend and then when Lesley finishes work on Saturday night if the weather is half decent I'll get her to drive it while I do a bit of mapping on slightly more boost assuming I have had a chance during the day to wire in a boost control solenoid (sure I've got an n75 one knocking around off of danlp6's old seat Cupra turbo) as before when i was running this car on the old engine it was manual boost control but ideally this time I would like to go electronic boost controlled by the Ecu related to throttle angle.

Then just a case of swapping the suspension and fitting some new bottom arms (have decided to go back to cup ones for more tyre clearance) the weekend after and getting Lesley to run it up to protyre to be tracked and it should be ready for Bedford a couple of days after, time has really flown by these last few weeks.

Then hopefully I can ignore it for a couple of weekends and set about getting the mk1 ready for Llandow on march 7th.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Changed to some decent oil today and have wired in a boost control solenoid and mapped the ecu for throttle angle controlled boost.
7 psi at half throttle for whole rev range which is actuator pressure and then it runs 10 psi at three quarter throttle and then obv as much as the turbo can handle at full throttle, although have very slightly capped it in the midrange as otherwise it goes over 30 but so briefly it feels rubbish so I have allowed it to peak around 22 psi and then it slowly tails off to 13psi at high rpm as the turbo just isn't big enough for anymore.

Pretty happy with it so far, goes pretty well

Will book some time on the rollers so i can tweak the ignition curve as its still a bit on the conservative side at the moment and I'd sooner use the rollers for that than do it on the road.


So other than a bit more mapping the engine is totally finished now and I can get onto all the other jobs it needs round the rest of the car.

 

[Dan@SJM]

I've got a clutch change in on Saturday mate so your welcome over my way if any of my tools/facilities will be of use

 

[Chip-mk1]

Thanks for the offer mate but I've got some mapping work on this weekend and got a mate coming round for me to give him a hand fitting some coilovers on his 182 so it will prob be next weekend when I finish off the turbo. Especially as I still need to do more on the mk1 yet too.

 

[Tutuur]

sounds great mate! looking forward to some RR printouts when you finish mapping!

 

[Chip-mk1]

sounds great mate! looking forward to some RR printouts when you finish mapping!

TBH I doubt the rolling road printout is going to be greatly different to first time around, maybe 20bhp more but nothing to write home about, Ive not done anything to increase the power, just slightly moved it up the rev range with the hotter cams, and hopefully made it more reliable.

The single biggest difference to drive now is the fact that before at half throttle it still made pretty much full power, in fact even at a quarter throttle it did it just took a little longer to build, so it made it very hard when coming out of a bend to only get the amount of power that you wanted, where as now its far more controllable as the throttle angle dictates the boost it makes so has a direct relationship to the power it makes.

Its pretty difficult to explain to someone how much difference that makes without them actually trying driving it hard on track before and after TBH

 

[Russ_16v]

Will be good to experience it once it's done mate (And the new rack bushes lol)

 

[Chip-mk1]

Yes Russ, will be very different next time you drive it compared to the last time!

 

[Russ_16v]

I bloody hope so, last time it was like playing buckaroo on a lion

 

[Chip-mk1]

I bloody hope so, last time it was like playing buckaroo on a lion

Flol, those steering rack bushes were proper nasty.

You can see why I only did 2 sessions at combe and then gave up that day!

 

[George182]

Ha ha it wasn't that bad!!!

 

[Chip-mk1]

Ha ha it wasn't that bad!!!

You drove it on big city roads, Russ drove it down country lanes.

 

[George182]

I still owe you a beer chip! Plus it's be good to finally meet mike if you guys were both around at some point.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Tuesday 12th is basingstoke cliosport meet, we will both be at that I would think.


http://www.cliosport.net/forum/show...ke-Tuesday-12th-February&highlight=longbridge

 

[Russ_16v]

Ha ha it wasn't that bad!!!

It was, how can I put this, an 'interesting' drive lol.

Ignoring the comical speeding, even on the previous setup I still can't believe how well it pulled, while still behaving like a normal car when driving normally - fantastic little car

 

[Chip-mk1]

It was, how can I put this, an 'interesting' drive lol.

Ignoring the comical speeding, even on the previous setup I still can't believe how well it pulled, while still behaving like a normal car when driving normally - fantastic little car

Yeah Dan's first comment when he drove it was he couldnt believe how easy it was to drive and how timid the engine is at part throttle, still drives like factory standard in that respect, only slight thing spoiling that is the paddle clutch but sadly with the torque I have that is unavoidable, if it wasnt for that it would be fine to send your mum shopping in still.

Did some MPG checking the last few tanks full BTW:
Running in driving with deliberate slowing up and speeding down continually to vary load: 22mpg
My typical daily driving including a bit of round about town : 27mpg
Steady driving on a long run (80 ish mainly): 32mpg
Lesley driving it really hard while I mapped it for full boost: 14mpg : Thats an estimate (based on fuel gauge but I know that on my gauge half a tank is almost exactly 4 gallons)


So I would say its about 25% worse on fuel for everything other than hard driving, and about 50% worse for that! (as you would expect for double standard torque nearly and over 50% more power than standard)

Relatively small price to pay considering the huge increase in performance I think, but even still as I currently do 30K miles ish a year I still wont be using it as a daily, lol

 

[Russ_16v]

Na i'd be the same mate, the Honda seems to be ok on fuel, (circa low 30's) but how people use them as a daily i will never know - 3000 rpm in 6th is 56mph lol!

 

[SharkyUK]

It's shaping up nicely, Chip. I look forward to seeing it in action soon!

 

[Chip-mk1]

Na i'd be the same mate, the Honda seems to be ok on fuel, (circa low 30's) but how people use them as a daily i will never know - 3000 rpm in 6th is 56mph lol!

Thats a very typical honda gearing, lol

Comfortably over 60mph at 3Krpm in the turbo.

And should do just over 170mph at the limiter although must confess I havent been over 160 yet.

 

[Chip-mk1]

It's shaping up nicely, Chip. I look forward to seeing it in action soon!

Thanks mate

You doing bedford? Hopefully thats its next outing.

 

[SharkyUK]

Thanks mate

You doing bedford? Hopefully thats its next outing.

Sadly not mate - I'm not available for that (I'm still yet to pop my Bedford cherry actually). I look forward to the continued updates and a full report...

 

[dmallett]

Good work Chip! Hopefully ill get to have a decent look at this car sometime

 

[Tutuur]

i know it won't be schocking numbers but that's not what i'm looking for, i'm just curious how the torgue spread is as thats more usefull then max bhp's.

btw, have you ever measured the lobe height, angle etc of both 172 and 197 cams? curious what the diff is.

 

[Chip-mk1]

No mate I dont have those figures sorry, but like I said to someone else, just look up the group N figures, they will be almost identical to the std cams.

 

[Chip-mk1]

I put it on the rollers today. Only had half an hour or so as I was mapping 4 cars today, so I wouldnt really say its "finished" yet as such, but certianly good enough for now at least.

It did pretty much exactly what I was expecting TBH, peak figure I saw was 285 but Ive richened it up a little after that just to keep it safer.

So the final figure when I finished mapping was 280bhp and 310lbft

Engine would clearly be happy doing far far more with a bigger turbo and intercooler etc but there just isnt any point IMHO on a trackday car, its plenty quick enough and I'll only bust gearboxes more often if I go for anymore.

Also of interest to some of you no doubt will be this pull showing how nice and driveable that car is at part throttle

REALLY pleased with how it drives, came home down some wet muddy small A and B roads and its amazing how much more accessible the power is now than it ever was on the previous setup

 

[Zmaster2k]

Savage! Bet thats a riot!

 

[McGherkin]

Dead on 280, nice. Look forward to seeing how it gets on on track!

 

[Chip-mk1]

Savage! Bet thats a riot!

Its really good fun, but its not the handful that the top graph would make it look, its so easy to select less power if you want it, where as most turbo cars if you go for half throttle you still get 90% of the torque, but having the throttle angle linked to the boost control, makes it far nicer to drive

 

[Chip-mk1]

Dead on 280, nice. Look forward to seeing how it gets on on track!

Lol, yeah considering I had said last night I thought it would do 280 thats why I grabbed a screenshot of that particular run, think les got a picture of it doing 284.9 as well, but it was on a graph with other runs on as well so wasnt as neat.

 

[Bluebeard]

Holy moly!!