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FN2 Type R +MK6 Golf
I still have my head in the sand about these skoda/seats and i know there good cars now,but they loose a bit to much still on residuals.The LCR looks really good though
At least in the company it had the clio did good and i was well impressed with it beating the scooby...I remember evo a cople of years back and the new cup as it was then beat the new 220 bhp bug eye scoob on a handling test round wales with the focus RS....The point i was making mitchy was that for little money you can beat bigger things
As for my next car i want an artic blue 182 cupped up,or depending on price and deals an inferno cup is very appealing,just like the one in the said article....Either of those will do or ill just pop over to cannock and steal lees
ian
Quote: Originally posted by Mitchy on 08 December 2004
Oh and before anyone starts on the LCR argument, just have a look at the stigs times on the TG test track.
Professional driver on a dry track and the 182 was near enough a second down on the pace of both the leon and the civic.
Editors publish what they think will sell magazines, best hatch for under £20k
A standard Seat would probably be a second down on a Clio round curborough..... It means nothing, why get so uptight about it. Your getting upset and your car wasnt even in the test? What gives?
Quote: Originally posted by Mitchy on 08 December 2004
Oh and before anyone starts on the LCR argument, just have a look at the stigs times on the TG test track.
Professional driver on a dry track and the 182 was near enough a second down on the pace of both the leon and the civic.
Editors publish what they think will sell magazines, best hatch for under £20k
Wasnt the Clio driven on a nice warm looking summers day and sucking in hot air whilst the group test the other day appeared to be in much cooler conditions. That and track conditions can easily affect the time. For road tyres a nice clean track that has recently been washed by the rain could be quicker than the dusty and greasy summer circuit.
Do you believe the latest CTR is 4 seconds a lap quicker than the old one?!?! Even accounting for a different stig that is still complete and utter BS. Go on the CTR forums and ask owners of the original CTR if their car is that much slower than the latest model.
Quote: Originally posted by ian 172 on 08 December 2004I still have my head in the sand about these skoda/seats and i know there good cars now,but they loose a bit to much still on residuals.The LCR looks really good thoughAt least in the company it had the clio did good and i was well impressed with it beating the scooby...I remember evo a cople of years back and the new cup as it was then beat the new 220 bhp bug eye scoob on a handling test round wales with the focus RS....The point i was making mitchy was that for little money you can beat bigger thingsAs for my next car i want an artic blue 182 cupped up,or depending on price and deals an inferno cup is very appealing,just like the one in the said article....Either of those will do or ill just pop over to cannock and steal lees
ianIll have to remember to park my old mans Celica in front of the garage door for added protection. You are more than welcome to come and have a look though.
Its nice when mags give the car you own a good review, but at the end of the day providing we all purchased our cars because we are happy with them sod what a bunch of journos think.
On the subject of the CTR, I visited one of the Type R meets last weekend. Nice bunch.
Quote: Originally posted by Toypop on 08 December 2004Quote: Originally posted by Mitchy on 08 December 2004Oh and before anyone starts on the LCR argument, just have a look at the stigs times on the TG test track. Professional driver on a dry track and the 182 was near enough a second down on the pace of both the leon and the civic.Editors publish what they think will sell magazines, best hatch for under £20k
try £15k and ill not argue.Wasnt the Clio driven on a nice warm looking summers day and sucking in hot air whilst the group test the other day appeared to be in much cooler conditions. That and track conditions can easily affect the time. For road tyres a nice clean track that has recently been washed by the rain could be quicker than the dusty and greasy summer circuit.Do you believe the latest CTR is 4 seconds a lap quicker than the old one?!?! Even accounting for a different stig that is still complete and utter BS. Go on the CTR forums and ask owners of the original CTR if their car is that much slower than the latest model.[/QUOTE]Sorry but Ive got to pull you on the warm air thing. Engines produce more power when breathing cold air. Cold air is denser. This is also why engines lose power at altitude, and its also the reason some turbos use intercoolers.
[EDIT] I really must learn to read My bad.
Surely if the magazines were open to bribery, Renault would never get a bad review ?
Brazo, where you getting these results from? The back of evo magazine by any chance?
The autodrome circuit has changed quite a few times. There is no way a 182 will put that kind of distance on an LCR with a professional track driver.
From the recent TG test where the same professional driver is used, i would say these results are far more accurate wouldnt you? Same day tests with same driver is a lot more accurate than tests spread out through the year with the use of different drivers.
Okay the 182 was tested on a different day but it was the same professional driver that tested the LCR/CTR 6 months later. Its not my fault, the LCR/CTR have beat the 182 time.
Millions watched top gear on sunday and millions seen that the 182 was a second or so down the board. Its happened, get over it mate.
Well in that case the cup is faster considerably than the 182 - which folks I personally doubt very much, indeed the otherway around is more likly!
Mitchy figures were taken from evo, both on the 1.7 mile west circuit, in dry conditions and the cup as expected put a good 8 seconds into the LCR!
And your hat fell off.
The Ford Focus RS only puts a 3 sec gap in between itself and a 210 LCR (not 225)
I cant see a cup doing 8 secs as that would mean 5 secs faster than an RS.
A BMW M3 puts 6.5 secs on the 210 LCR. How does the cup manage 8 secs??
Brazo, it just seems like sour grapes to me as the clio is not as invincible as you once thought. Does it really matter? Seriously i couldnt care less, i never bought my car to race round a track and im pretty sure you never either.
I repeat again, is the new CTR four seconds a lap quicker than the old CTR?
Old CTR owners will tell you theirs is quicker.
I find my Clio is particularly sensitive to environmental conditions. Some times it flies and sometimes it is really sluggish.
I put 75% of it down to the conditions. The other 25% I put down to the fact that the stig was driving a shed load of FWDs so he was able to really get on the ball with that type of car. Now back when he tested the Clio that might have been the only FWD he drove that day and most of the cars he drives around there are RWDs. Takes a while to get used to going back to the different configuration of car (when giving it 100%) as anyone who has driven RWDs and FWDs around a track on the same day will testify.
The CTR/LCR test was filmed recently - the new Golf GTI was there!!!
Punto/Clio GTT
MINI JCW
Lets be honest there isnt much in it between the CTR/182, in mags ive seen on several occasions the clio post better times and then the CTR post better times, its that close.
However the Clio is in a class below and is matching and in the majority of cases bettering cars it shouldnt be and this shows just how good the clio is, the 182 hammered the MCS and thats its nearest competitor
Ultimately does it really matter if the CTR is even slighty quicker in real world terms than the 182? Its steering is dull and boring on the road. Id rather be able to feel the tarmac through the rim, than guess and hope.
The CTRs engine and gearbox are infectious, but I defy any real CTR owning proper driver to deny that they feel a little unsafe and bored while cornering on the road. Hell, the two Hondas I drove, I felt like I was playing Project Gotham Racing 2 on an Xbox...with the rumble disabled.
I notice that AutoCar also mention that cruise is an option on the Cup for a few hundred pounds?? Everything Im reading says its standard. Also, with all the cars they are quoting 0-60 times, which are clearly specs for 0-62 times, and also not actual test results. So they dont know that the 6.9 time for the Cup is actually 0-62, and dont remember beating it by a good margin?? Hmmm some test.
They also dont remember that they got 6.4 to 60, from a 182 and said the Cup might be a 6 second car in perfect conditions...they also didnt know that their Cup had cruise (presumambly if reno are to be believed), but commented on it being an extra - which isnt listed anywhere by Renault.
Based on those facts, Id take the whole article with a pinch of salt, to be blunt.
Still cant wait to get my Cup in Jan, but I learnt a while back to humour Autocar with some fo their tests. At the end of the day its journalism. A year from now theyll be spunking over the impending Fiesta RS, and calling the old Cup a pile of dung, just like they did with the Honda CTR
there isnt going to be a fiesta rs mate and as far as car tests go autocar are one of the bestter ones. Im guessing that because it was such a bit test they didnt test the 0-60s of the cars individually and went with maufacturers figures.
I also bet the 182 they tested 6 months ago would do the 6 second 0-60 now as it was barely run in when they tested that.
just wondered if any thoughs of weight crept in there when thinkin of bhp. i can tell you this 20bhp gain on 250kg motorbike is rather substancial to say the least. 20bhp on a 750kg lotus elise is very noticeble all though incrementaly less than the motorbike.
20kgs on 1260kg or 1204kgs (newer model i think is lighter) isnt stunning when put in the context of a 1365kg Enzo with 660bhp.
so a 182 (bit heavier than mk1 and a 172) is about 1080 with 182bhp and a ctr with 197bhp (sameish torque) weighing 1204 or 1260.
so if both cars push out quoted figures thats a 15bhp increase yet a 24 or 80 kilo difference depending on which ctr weight you want.
even with an arse kicking extra 15bhp (lol) the 24kg (lets face it, they weigh more than that compared to the 182clio) isnt going to make a difference. in fact its power to weight is its defecit.
handling. well the 182 is better and has specially develped michellin tyres. also cost 12k new from broker/import/internet. and there tiny savings on a CTR which costs 16k and doesnt even have aircon let alone cruise control or xenons etc..
so what the ctr will always be trumped and praised by car novices as it has flash bodykit and type-r tackily sprayed on in chav stylee. and a wrx will always get people looking and thinking its faster because its a scooby.
but to sumise why im here on this forum is because i cant afford an enzo and people who can afford enzos arent on this site.
so that tells you i have to buy something that gives me a buzz and is exciting to drive as i cant afford a ferrari and when it comes to making the right choice as far as price performance ratio is concerned the 182cup wins
just imagine some of the deals !! 11k anyone for a brand new 6.5 to 60 140mph supermini. thats 1.6 fatty focus money.
rant over.
ohh and whats wrong with Seats there cooler than VWs and not as snobby as audis.
Iain C
ClioSport Club Member
yawn
FN2 Type R +MK6 Golf
I have had lots of experience of racing ctrs,a local lad and myself have had numerous blasts along D/Cs and motorways from standing start to flat out 140+ runs
The cars are near identical and it was only after 100mph that the ctr gets its legs,before then it was even all the way in my mk2 172
With the 182 posting as low as 6.3 the ctr would have its work cut out but even then its too close to be calling the shots on any 1 post or article form 1 month to the next
Two great cars.....You decide which one you like
ian
Golf Mk6 Oil Burner
laptimes - july 04 - autocar
http://www.type-25.com/images/large/autocar1_3.jpghttp://www.type-25.com/images/large/autocar1_3.jpg
think this is why they didnt bother putting the ctr in again
