Dci tuning thread

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

ive asked him that so hopefully something comes of it.

they only other one i know of is on dci.net but they guy piggy backed the vw CR system onto the clio management.

made 180hp but had loads of running issues as it went into limp mode on idle.

if we are wanting abit of torque, i'd say 300nm is the MAX on standard jr5/jc5 boxes.

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

Had a big think, allot of the fiesta tdci owners bang on about water/meth injection. Wonder if it's worth it for a few more torques ?

 

[Tutuur]

Just on the standard car?

don't see why you would bother as you could probably blow up the gearbox with standard hardware anyway

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

On a modded dci. Although I have thought of standard ish hardware.

I know now a better box to fit , the common type that's fitted to DV6 pug engines. Ment to be good for torque and I tried my old dci flywheel on the gearbox shaft, it fits. Bell house bolt patter is a little off but loads of thick material to re-drill

 

[Scrooge]

Had a big think, allot of the fiesta tdci owners bang on about water/meth injection. Wonder if it's worth it for a few more torques ?

Really not worth it in my opinion mate. In theory in should allow you to run the turbo with more boost as it will drop temperatures but in practice it doesn't work that well. great for keeping intake etc all clean though not that a we'll driven erg deleted car will need it.

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

It gets a good blast out nearly every day so I don't think I'll bother.

Might turn the AC into a charge cooler tho as the matrix thing for it behind the dash is fucked.
That's IF I run silly boost and fuel

 

[Tutuur]

I'm afraid it's back to the drawing board mate, pump won't work....

 

[Tutuur]

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

What's the outer casing like? Mounting point wise. Trying to find this magical 130hp Mondeo pump that the lad used. Aparently just bolted where the original did with no faffing

Think that's what bob said needed machining to fit the dci housing. Didn't think it was that much of a massive difference tho lo

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

Which one is that, 1.8 or 2.0 ?
Theres a crap one on this jag at work and it don't look that friggin big

 

[Dan@SJM]

Speaking to Michael Woodford MST he was saying some focus injectors are the same. So maybe the pumps will be comparable?

 

[Tutuur]

According to the delphi pdf both the 1.8 and 2.0 pumps have 2 racks meaning they both have the same innards like on the pic.

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

The dci 106 injectors seem to be a better flow rate but I can't get actuall specs.

Pissing annoying the pumps are a big difference

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ford-Focu...ctured-99-99-EACH-/271345696051#ht_445wt_1255

can we find out what spec they are from the part ID?

look the same but i want to know what nozzle pattern and rate of flow they have.

 

[Tutuur]

First find a way to improve the pumps flow and than worry about the injectors.

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

I'm going to see if I can make a bracket for the 2.0 pump like yours to fit the dci mounting points.
Hopefully in turn the cam wheel fits so it all works.

Its Gita be doable as that lad mentioned the 130 pump on that dci ( which is the 125hp 2.0 dura torque pump

 

[Tutuur]

People say alot, how are you going to lubrcate the bearing? And wat cam wheel are you going to fit?

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

Hopefully mill the the Clio cam wheel to fit the Mondeo pump.
As for the bearing, in sure I could modify it to run an enclosed bearing ( which thinking of it is going to be a ballache.

I really need need another talk with bob and see if we can size up the pistons in the dci pump. And all other parts needed for more fueling

 

[Tutuur]

Mondeo's shaft is thinner so milling the dci wheel won't work, and yes i reckon the bearing will be a pain!

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

Maybe an adaptor then, how much smaller is it?

Yeah ah I know it will be, I'll let the lads down the road see what they can do

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

Michael Woodford MST have you looked into any of this?

 

[Tutuur]

Really the only suitable solution will be boring the compression channels in the pump and fitting larger pistons.

simple maths tell me 2 1mm oversize pistons will be enough for around 160bhp...

 

[Michael Woodford MST]

Different insides. One outlet means constants pressures.

4 outlets can be 180 out. Meaning you could be firing injector 4 when you really want injector 4. If you look at a common rail pump all apart and look at Old style electronic controlled mechanical pump, you'll see pistons as appose to a what a common rail has

There is a position sensor on the pumps on a DCi so it knows weather to fire 1or4 or 2or3. The crankshaft sensor only knows TDC so could be either 1or4

 

[Michael Woodford MST]

1400 for the 65/80 and 1600 for the 100. However we don't need that. The pressure doesn't need to be higher, it's just the flow capacity of the pump that needs to be higher.

tdci runs 1400 too

Raising the fuel pressure in the rail is useful. It allows you to back the duty cycle off the injectors or allows you to flow even more fuel through the injector. It's also harder to loose the pressure in the rail if it's higher.

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

Which ones that then mate, the bigger fucker is meter valve , green is temp so guessing the other is the possition sensor?

tuturr could do, best find out if we can

 

[Michael Woodford MST]

Haven't read all the tread yet but I will add this,

The pump is used in conjunction with a lift pump on the mk3 Clio according to Adam at Renault.

I'm going to try a lift pump on mine.

Also the engine is used in the Nissan Quasqui. What pumps do they run as they have good power as standard.

 

[Michael Woodford MST]

Which ones that then mate, the bigger fucker is meter valve , green is temp so guessing the other is the possition sensor?

tuturr could do, best find out if we can

You do it in the map.

 

[Michael Woodford MST]

Which ones that then mate, the bigger fucker is meter valve , green is temp so guessing the other is the possition sensor?

tuturr could do, best find out if we can

Or did you mean the possition sensor? That's through the engine mount and triggers from the pulley.

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

Oh thought you ment there another sensor on the pump for position lol.
Never noticed a sensor in my engine mount, saying that it was while back since I've had the side of the engine

 

[Tutuur]

The real problem is the pumps flow just isn't sufficient enough. The tdci pumps have 2 the stages but that won't fit the housing nor would fit on the engine without alot of hassle!

the ones with the lift pump use a siemens fuel system which it's pump is more like a bosch cp pump. The lift pump really doesn't do anything besides providing a constant feed to the hpfp.

i'm researching in increasing piston size atm.

the only point i do wonder is the material of the pistons, i guess they are pretty tuff.

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

The seimens pump is a possibility depending on how hard it is to make it work with the rest of the dci system.
Bolting is defo the same as the Delphi pump bolting on the 1.5's. Haven't looked into what Nissan use on their 1.5/1.6dci

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

I'm guessing the pistons are heat treated or cold steel of some sort. Hence why they are okay and the rest of the pump breaks up

 

[Tutuur]

The "rest" really only is the alu housing in which the roller rolls, that's the weakest part in the whole pump and probably by a reason.

the siemens pump won't work as the feed is regulated by 2 sort of imv's. You could make the feed imv mechanical by putting a return in the system although there arrises a different problem: the true imv of the siemens pump works inverted to the delphi one so the big issue would be getting the ecu to drive it....

seems more and more to be an impossible task.

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

We'll find something. Need to look further into other manufacturers that use Delphi pumpS.
Rather than ford pug Renault jag ect

 

[olliewebbuk]

Doesn't the new Merc A class use a slightly more powerful version of the Renault 1.5/1.6 diesel engine? Might be worth looking at what sort of pumps they use.

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

Worth a shot, will have a look into that. Merc dealer up the road from me aswell

btw designed a bracket for the jag pump, just need to make it and make sure it clears other parts. ( need to find my old bottom )

if it does clear and pulleys line up straight and true, I will get the lads down the road to water jet cut me a bracket and I'll bend the last bit in the press. As for the bearing, spoke to a guy who specializes In bearings, he said if pop over, he'll have a look and see what or not I can get away with. ( needs to be able to stand load / high rpm and heat )

 

[olliewebbuk]

Bit of further research on the Merc A-Class lump.

The model that uses the 1.5 dCi is this: http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/reviews/facts-and-figures/mercedes-benz/a-class/hatchback-2013/63173/ - now that's pretty crap since it's 1hp more than the most powerful Clio III one. Although it might have different bits, you'd need to investigate I guess.

There is also this one: http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/reviews/facts-and-figures/mercedes-benz/a-class/hatchback-2013/56599/ - which is a 1.6 diesel... are they related? (this article reckons so: http://www.smartmotorist.com/motorist-news/mercedes-will-use-renault-engines.html) not sure what parts are shared with the 1.5 version. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renault_R-Type_engine - has more info - looks like there is a twin-turbo version coming soonish ) I can't find anything that states that the 1.6 is a evolution of the 1.5.

Mercedes are also gonna put the 1.6 version in the C Class, so I guess there could be an even more powerful version? Who knows?!

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

Merc use their own injection system on the 1.5's. Bosch cdi injection. Pump design is like the megane 1.9 but with some weird bracket for it

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

The 1.6 F9R ( Nissan already use it or similar version) is ment to be beaded up and 16v

I did ask Adam at Renault Wolverhampton if parts are interchangeable but we don't know yet.
Would be nice to use a 16v head aslong as the water/oil and head bolt hols all match. Plus it should be a chain linked cam design but only one external cambelt pulley like the 1.5

 

[Tutuur]

Might aswell source yourself a 1.6 r9m in that case, remap to 160bhp and call it quits