Dr Jekyll's Ph1 172 Progress Thread

[AlexW]

Those shims look good too.

Be seeing you again soon then lol!

 

[Craig.]

Mark wont be wanting to try my ph2 side strips then!


I agree with your above comments on the mounts, never been in a car with them and standard interior though. In mine the vibrations are pretty noticeable.

I can notice mine abit more now mine isn't a daily but not as much as when I first ever fitted them.

@Craig 20mm was originally ordered but they sent 25mm! Dont know why but i was swaying towards H&R's over FK's. Larkspeed they should be a couple of days as they need to be ordered in.

As Craig said Dan, its iceberg. I actually prefer the look of titanuim i think but do like the fact that this is the rarer silver

Ph1 side strips are staying. I just need to get a decent set

Ohh right I see, I'm using FK spacers & they are fine & cheaper lol.

Think there was 99 in iceberg, way back in 2006 iceberg was the only silver I wanted & it was hard to find one, i didn't really like titanium but now I think it's a great colour.

 

[Timmsy]

Well if you wanted some 25mm spacers, i know a set going for sale

If I had the money I would but i need to stop spending on the car for a bit I think.

 

[Jekyll]

Had these turn up this week.

H&R 20mm spacers by Dr-Jekyll, on Flickr

H&R 20mm hubcentric spacer by Dr-Jekyll, on Flickr

Fantastic service from Larkspeed Only ordered them monday lunchtime and they was here Tuesday when i came home from work. They had to be ordered in too!

Comparison between Dan@MAD and H&R's

Myldan spacers Vs H&R spacers by Dr-Jekyll, on Flickr

New wheel bolts to compensate as my old ones are a tad manky and i needed to shorten the fronts to fit the 20mm spacers so made sense to get some shiny ones

New wheel bolts by Dr-Jekyll, on Flickr

New shorter wheel bolts for the fronts

New from wheel bolt length by Dr-Jekyll, on Flickr

And standard sized rears

New rear wheel bolt length by Dr-Jekyll, on Flickr

Waiting on the rear shims and i ordered a genuine center exhaust mount too. Hit a bloody pothole on the way home last night It was dark and wet and i have a small bit of steering vibration

 

[Mr R.]

I like your 20mm front spacers.

 

[Jekyll]

They look well made Scott. I don't know why I was wanting H&R's over FK's but I went with what my head said.

I have also sourced a full set of 2nd hand calipers that will be stripped and rebuilt and nicely painted to replace my current ones. I shall order some Brembo HC's and DS2500 for the fronts and a standard set up for the rears and give it some new brake fluid when the time comes.

 

[Mr R.]

FK are the same finish as Dans, left in bare alloy.

Did they cost less than Dan's?

 

[Jekyll]

Dans were £75 plus £7 postage iirc and these were £85 plus £10 postage.

 

[Mr R.]

The H&R's have got proper steel threadded inserts for the wheel bolts, hmmmm very nice. :approve:

 

[AlexW]

Seeing those, Even I prefer the H&R's, However, as I said to you, have no problem with my FK's through loads of abuse and a trackday.

 

[Toms_clio]

If you take those rear shims off I may have them off you mark

 

[Timmsy]

Those H&Rs are nice..... For spacers anyway

Damn pot holes! I did the same Sunday and slightly bent a wheel

 

[Rubicon_]

So you do you need longer bolts for the 20mm ones Mark? I'm going to be getting them soon and reverting back to bolts instead of studs.

 

[Jekyll]

The H&R's have got proper steel threadded inserts for the wheel bolts, hmmmm very nice. :approve:

Got you thinking now They do look better quality than the Myldan ones tbh.

Seeing those, Even I prefer the H&R's, However, as I said to you, have no problem with my FK's through loads of abuse and a trackday.

You know what I'm like!

If you take those rear shims off I may have them off you mark

If it doesn't counteract the camber then I shall remove both the rear spacers and shims and just put a 5mm rear wheel spacer on and give you 1st dibs

Those H&Rs are nice..... For spacers anyway

Damn pot holes! I did the same Sunday and slightly bent a wheel

The pothole has been there for a while but as it was dark and wet I didn't see it untill last minute. I wasn't going fast, perhaps 20mph but it was quite a thud

So you do you need longer bolts for the 20mm ones Mark? I'm going to be getting them soon and reverting back to bolts instead of studs.

The name change confused me for a mo. If your thinking of 20mm spacers then you will need shorter bolts than standard. I read on here that few people on here have shaved the ends down but I ordered shorter new ones. Standard thread length is 26mm and I didn't think people would remove anymore than 4mm of thread which was the next size down so I ordered 22mm threads for the 20mm spacers.

@Phase1sr Could you measure your front bolt thread length sometime to clarify please?

 

[AlexW]

If you fit the front spacers round mine, I'll check the bolt lengh before fitting anyway, and if I think its better to fit the longer bolts and trim them down a little, I will.

It depends how far the bolts stick through the wheels.

 

[Mr R.]

Mine are 24mm mate, as i said they only needed a couple of mm to clear.

So yours at 22mm will be fine.

I was going to paint my spacers black so they didn't stand out so much when looking through the wheels, after seeing yours it got me thinking.

 

[Jekyll]

Luckily I actually ordered 16 standard length bolts forgetting the fronts needed to be shorter a tad but I think they'll be fine

Had these turn up today so shall get the fitted soon:

Camber shims and genuine center exhaust mount by Dr-Jekyll, on Flickr

At least the resale value on the current spacers on yours won't be at too much of a loss Scott.

 

[yeecup]

You have done so much in a short space of time. In comparison I have done nothing to it's replacement.

 

[Wick]

Ph2 vs. Ph1 Mark? And reasoning, if you'd be so kind.

 

[Rubicon_]

The name change confused me for a mo. If your thinking of 20mm spacers then you will need shorter bolts than standard. I read on here that few people on here have shaved the ends down but I ordered shorter new ones. Standard thread length is 26mm and I didn't think people would remove anymore than 4mm of thread which was the next size down so I ordered 22mm threads for the 20mm spacers.

Ahh right, I was thinking the wheel bolts just went through the spacer and into the hub as normal. I'll get these ordered I think !

 

[Gally]

I knew I had posted! Love it mate. I'm looking for a Ph1 around the price I want to pay. Not easy but i'm sure something will come up!

 

[Bobby.]

A weekend nearly passed and still no update, your slacking Mark

 

[Jekyll]

You have done so much in a short space of time. In comparison I have done nothing to it's replacement.

I was having a quick flick through this morning. Most of it is just tidying bits up. I have bought a few nice bits over time though. I'm just bits as and when.

Anyway yours shouldn't need anything doing to it

Ahh right, I was thinking the wheel bolts just went through the spacer and into the hub as normal. I'll get these ordered I think !

Phone up John Harris directly mate as he deals with our discount. I phoned up but was sent to he's answer phone, so i left a message and he called me back within the hour. He was very helpful

http://www.cliosport.net/forum/discounts.php?cid=52

A weekend nearly passed and still no update, your slacking Mark

Haha. I did text Alex on friday to pop round on sat, but he had to cancel due to picking up a inferno 182 that needed to be gone. But i've rearranged for this coming weekend. I did go to fit the front spacers yesterday morning but couldn't find my locking wheel nut key. I gave up looking and then yesterday evening i found it.... in the box where i last put it I may get out there tomorrow morning and fit them, weather providing.

I knew I had posted! Love it mate. I'm looking for a Ph1 around the price I want to pay. Not easy but i'm sure something will come up!

I thought you did! What is your budget Kev? PM if you want.

Ph2 vs. Ph1 Mark? And reasoning, if you'd be so kind.

Ive been thinking about this Sam. Im no critic but i'll give my opinion. The hardest part is that i had the BG for nearly 3 years and as you know it had changed a fair bit in my ownership from standard so a lot of time, money and effort went into it.

Tbf the BG was a really good car to own. Very little things went wrong with it and was mechanically a decent car. Ive only owned this since November and haven't really done to much. Anyway the caparison.

Exterior

The Ph1 front is a better looking car. I love the dual optics and the way front bumper looks. Having the badge on the bonnet is a nice feature. The rear on the BG did look great. The way the exhausts sat and the way it got wider from the top down. I do prefer the look of the Ph2 strips on the Ph2's but not 100% on them on the Ph1's, hence going back to standard. The current black on the silver does break it up but the color coding on the BG did look good. I hate the way that the front bumper doesn't sit on the Ph1's, not just on mine. Not having it aligned properly and seeing a gap between the bumper fitment is rather annoying.

The BG on the Vmaxx and 2118's looked fantastic and looked at its pinnacle imo. The Ph1 is not even close to how it should be so is hard to comment on that. The front end of the BG was heavily chipped but all in all the body work was is better condition. The Ph1 is far from mint. It has chips, dents and ripples on the passenger door and rear boot, a chip on the passenger rear quarter and dents on the drivers door. The wheels are in ok condition but ideally need a refurb. The 2118's were mint and im fussy like that so the F1's annoy me. Once the car is lower, got the spacers on and bodywork is perfect then i'll be happy. But i guess it there's a few years gap between the 2 and the Ph1 has had more owners.

Interior

People say that the dash looks dated, but i love the retro-ness of it. Obviously the Ph2 is more modern. One thing i hated on the BG was the way the glove box lid bowed out. But it is a lot bigger than the Ph1. The Ph1 doesn't have a big glove compartment and no cup holder so is less practical, plus the door card pockets are smaller in height too. There is also no glove box light which is crap in the dark. This doesn't really bother me to much as i keep only the essentials in the car. I do prefer the rev clocks on the Ph2 with the surround to break it up. The backlight on the Ph1 clocks have a shadow on them which the Ph2 didn't have that i noticed.

I actually prefer the standard Ph1 seats over the Ph2's and Recaro's. What i love about them is the coloured Reanult Sport stitching and the plain bottom, where as on the 182 it had white stitching and a perforated bottom. The Recaro's was a great looking seat. Everytime i walked towards the car and see the domed top with the eyelets i did think the looked great, but due to my small frame i felt they was to big for me. Due to them being 10mm lower and having to height adjustment meant i looked tiny in them too! They was more supportive on the legs but i had to much play in the upper area. Plus the standard seats are much more comfier than the Recaro's.

I do love the ball style gear knob in the Ph1 but dont like the fact its prone to scuffs if you wear rings, although i dont. I love the fact it feels smaller inside the cabin due to my size, but with the seat in a normal position leaves no back room. The build quality in the Ph2 seemed better and there is a lot more rattles in the Ph1 which sometimes can be a tad annoying but im getting used to it. I got a few lighting problems with a few bulbs not lighting up straight away but that will be fixed. The ashtray is crap though. The flap on it is so weak. Also i had a light on my BG ashtray which i dont have on this.

The drive

Having owned this for a few months i do think the BG was quicker. When i picked this up i had only been driving around in a 1.2 micra so this did feel quick. It pulls nice though and feels nice through the rev range but it doesnt seem to pull as hard as the BG. Current engine mods are matched inlets, panel filter and cat back exhaust with twin cat. The engine mods on the 182 was matched inlets, panel filter, exhaust with decat and RStuner map. Getting used to a cable throttle from FBW is different. It feels more sticky and i feel that i cant blip it as smooth on the down change as i could with the BG. That might be down to the decat or the map. Although since ive fitted the solid mounts in this, it does feel a lot better when going up the revs hard, something which i never did put on the BG. It will be interesting to see what power it makes next month to see if it is quicker or not. The BG mad 175.4bhp so we shall see.

The ride on the Ph1 is very comfortable. It currently has Koni yellows all round with Eibach sportlines, set on the softest setting. For a daily its perfect. I had the sportlines on the BG and really liked them but with both cars they don't drop it enough. When the BG was on Vmaxx it was ok tbh. It could be a little crashy on certain roads but not enough to bother me. I ran them for 2 years and tbh i would get them again. It gripped quite nicely and under hard braking it was nice and stable and i had confidence when driving it hard through bends. The Ph1 not so much. It handles very nice. Im getting used to it over time but under heavy braking the rear can get a little light. However it will be going lower at a later date so im sure it wont be so bad then. The steering feels heavier in the Ph1 than the Ph2, but position-wise i do feel more comfortable in the Ph1 if/when i give it some. Im not sure if it is but the steering wheel feels smaller in the Ph1 than the Ph2. Although it was retrimmed, i did hate the size of the Ph2 wheel.

The brakes on the BG was good. I ran the Wilwood kit with Pagid discs and DS2500 pads. When cold they was rather poo but once warm they was totally different. I did have a lot of confidence in late braking with those bad boys. The brakes on the Ph1 are pretty poo i feel. Im not sure what the full setup is but i know they are Mintex pads up front and i don't like them. I will be getting Brembo HC's and DS2500 sometime soon so im sure that will be better.

Overall at this moment i don't feel as connected to the Ph1 as i do with the Ph2. I do think that is because i haven't had it long and ive put no time in it in comparison to the 182. I feel that the 182 felt more solid to drive. However i do prefer the looks of this as a whole and i do feel rather cool when i drive it. Im looking forward to spending money, time and effort on this like i did on the Ph2 and i think overtime i will grow to love this a lot more than the BG, im just not there yet.

Sorry if this is a crap comparison, im not really good at reviews!

 

[Wick]

Brilliant write up mate. I'm sure you'll gel with it in time. Some really interesting points in there. I also love that they are a little bit retro now. I see ph2 sports everywhere, rarely see a ph1.

 

[Jekyll]

Thanks mate. I see you post it but ive been thinking about the reply/review all weekend.

I agree there mate and one thing i do love is the fact that there was only 90 something Iceberg Ph1's so that inspires me to make it mint and thats the biggest goal with this over time.

 

[Mr Plums]

I enjoyed that Mark, its a great write up mate, and a honest write up makes a good write up, and this is just that

 

[Gally]

Nice comparison Mark. Bare in mind how sorted your Ph2 was a fair Ph1 will always feel poorer to start with.

My budget is lower end about a grand. After a few car sales we put money in the saving and 2 holidays this year so it's a stop gap to something modern.

I miss my V6 but also fancied something to lease for a year or 2, maybe a juke!

 

[dmallett]

Nice comparison! Im going to throw this out there, i always say i prefer ph1's which I do looks wise. But as for drive they all feel so different to drive, i think its only possible to compare two specific cars like you have. Not every ph1 to every ph2 as they all vary so much.

 

[Timmsy]

Very nice write up Mark. Good to hear some first hand experience of both. In time I bet you'll come to love the ph1 more over the ph2 its got more character ;-)

Shame no updates though... tut tut

 

[AlexW]

Look at all the disappointment I've caused.

I'll make up for it next weekend though

 

[Coops Mk1]

nice writeup chap, pretty much echo's how I feel about phase 1 and phase 2 and tbh echos back again from phase 1 to mark 1. my love thins out as the cars get newer, but they definitely get better built and overall more balanced to drive etc.

 

[Ph1 Tom]

Ph1 ftw. Modern enough and good strong chassis but a bit of retro-ness and more raw to drive.

 

[Mr R.]

Ph1 ftw. Modern enough and good strong chassis but a bit of retro-ness and more raw to drive.

Sums it up nicely mate.

 

[dmallett]

Ph1 ftw. Modern enough and good strong chassis but a bit of retro-ness and more raw to drive.

Im not convinced.

The Ph2's are similar imo to what you stated, maybe its just me!

 

[Jekyll]

Thanks for the feedback guys. Managed to get a few more bits done today. Fitted the front spacers and new center exhaust mount. I got to admit, i think it looks perfect up the front! I'm glad i went against the grain and got 20mm's.

Before:

Drivers side without spacers by Dr-Jekyll, on Flickr

Drivers side without spacers. by Dr-Jekyll, on Flickr

Passenger side without spacers by Dr-Jekyll, on Flickr

Passenger side without spacers. by Dr-Jekyll, on Flickr

During:

Without spacers by Dr-Jekyll, on Flickr

Driver's side spacer fitted by Dr-Jekyll, on Flickr

Passenger side with spacers fitted by Dr-Jekyll, on Flickr

After:

Driver's side with spacer fitted by Dr-Jekyll, on Flickr

Drivers's side with spacer fitted. by Dr-Jekyll, on Flickr

Passenger's side with spacer fitted by Dr-Jekyll, on Flickr

Passengers's side with spacer fitted. by Dr-Jekyll, on Flickr

While the drivers side wheel was off i had a look at the back to see if it was buckled after hitting the pothole....

Buckled wheel by Dr-Jekyll, on Flickr

I've never had a buckled wheel on any of my cars Can getting wheel weights fitted ease the vibration in the steering wheel?

Also found a nail in the passenger rear tyre so i've removed the wheel so it can be repaired tomorrow. Took my spare wheel out and put that on for the time being, but it has seen better days!!

Spare wheel by Dr-Jekyll, on Flickr

Fitted new center exhaust mount while it was up in the air

Center exhaust mount - New Vs Old by Dr-Jekyll, on Flickr

Center exhaust mount fitted by Dr-Jekyll, on Flickr

Then gave it a quick clean. Will get some better pics at the weekend. Getting the camber shims fitted on sat so hopefully they will reverse the -1 degree camber and then i will have 10mm rear spacers with no camber. If it doesn't work or i'm not happy then i will remove them all and get a 5mm rear wheel spacer either side.

Cleaned by Dr-Jekyll, on Flickr

 

[Mr R.]

looking good.

20mm is bang on, i know its only 5mm but 25mm seems to be to much.

 

[Djw John]

Still on sportlines aye? Happy with width and height compromise?

 

[AlexW]

Looks good!

I'd try bashing that front wheel straighter, then balanced. Or get the spare refurbed and chuck that on there.

 

[Jekyll]

looking good.

20mm is bang on, i know its only 5mm but 25mm seems to be to much.

Totally agree mate. Even when i tried on Alex's 25mm i thought it was borderline but i knew in my head that i wouldn't be happy with them. I like a little tuck and this looks like it came out the factory like it, width wise.

Still on sportlines aye? Happy with width and height compromise?

Yep, still on the sportlines and Konis's. I adjusted them to the softest setting this morning too. Really happy with the width but it's not low enough for my liking. Im not a stance king but i do like the arch to be closed a tad more tbh.

 

[Djw John]

I wouldn't be changing the height on mine, considering spacers now though. The 25 look daft on sportlines IMO. This has really got me thinking