EPAS on 172 Cup

[Cup_Phil]

Oh and I think it's lost about 6-8kg in weight, maybe more. I'll weigh the box of removed parts at the weekend

I'd like to ditch that lower alternator bracket now and fit that lightweight volvo one I've seen people use but I can't find one anywhere

 

[NorthloopCup]

I mounted my ecu for the epas between the dash support bars and the bulkhead. It's to the right of the steering column. It's a tight fit, but its held secure by the bar and some zip ties. Sounds rough, but looks almost like it was designed to go there.

 

[Cup_Phil]

I was trying to work out where it's supposed to go as it's got like a metal clip on the back of it.. but I'm guessing the 172 dash has a bit more going on than the 1.2 one lol

 

[NorthloopCup]

I was trying to work out where it's supposed to go as it's got like a metal clip on the back of it.. but I'm guessing the 172 dash has a bit more going on than the 1.2 one lol

I removed that bracket/clip assembly to help 'ease' it behind the dash! There's not much left of my dash support bar anyway as I removed a lot of it to clear the cage and save some extra weight.

 

[Cup_Phil]

Looking at ebay pics I think the ECU is supposed to clip to the bottom of the column

Feck knows how that would fit though with the plastic surround.

I'm hoping I can fit the adjustor nob where the stereo stalk used to be gonna try making a little blank up for it

 

[Cup_Phil]

Ahhh maybe not ...

Looks like it clips to the support frame for the dashboard somewhere
Can't quite work out which way around that is

Dash off fun this weekend for about the 6th time in the last year lol

 

[NorthloopCup]

Thats the drivers side of the dash phil in that ^^^ picture.

 

[Cup_Phil]

Oh cool might have a dig around see if I can get it mounted there

 

[M4D M4X]

Yes it can mount on there for sure phil, my 182 had the bracket to hold it on in the same place (drivers side by the door) you'll need a bolt not sure what size thread to hold it tight.

 

[Cup_Phil]

Sweet!!

 

[Cup_Phil]

Did a bit more on this today

Took some pics of what I've already done too

Column fitted..

The EPAS ECU does indeed slip straight onto a bracket behind the dash
Really happy about this as it's secured with an m6 screw and won't be rattling around

Control nob fitted - I chose the left side of the steering column behind the indicator stalk. Should just be in reach but I wont be able to hit it with my knee or anything

I'm not the best auto electrician in the world lol but connected the torque sensor wiring with heat shrinked connectors and then wrapped it all up with electrical tape afterwards

I've just got to find a switched 12v ignition live for the ECU control box thingy somewhere behind the dash (though tempted to steal one from the back of my electric window switches) - and then I need to nip to an auto electrician tomorrow and get a 2m power cable made up and a 20cm earth cable.
Should all be working then

I'm hoping an earth through the bottom of the big bolt on the dashboard framework bars will be ok - bit worried as it says you can put the 60a fuse through the earth or the power cable so it sounds like it needs to be a really good earthing point

 

[_WILL_]

Sounds like it is going well. I just bout one of the racks with the part number you used off ebay. It's brand new, delivered for £53. Hope it's the right one!!

 

[BIGASH]

Good stuff! The earth wire has to be the same gauge as the positive as its a circuit so the same current is flowing through both wires

 

[Cup_Phil]

Should be Will. After I bought my rack from renparts I actually noticed a few new/refurbed ones on ebay LOL
But mine was only £25 and it's smooth as silk so should be ok. It's handy knowing I can replace it for a brand new rack at any time for £60 though
I'm also quite convinced it's a quicker rack than the cup ones, certainly feels it on the short test drives I've done. Maybe it's just an illusion as the steering is instant now rather than loads of play like their used to be lol

Cheers James - I can't quite get my head around the cabling as I've measured the stuff that's already on the plug and they're 3mm internal so around 8AWG - but that's only rated to about 24amps and the guy from ebay said to wire in a 60a fuse. I'm guessing 4awg would be safer but I've decided to just take measurements and the fuse box and ecu connector to the auto electrician in town and let him make me some cable up lol

Where did you earth yours too? Just a bit of bare bodywork?

 

[BIGASH]

I've used 8.5mm and the dimension stands for the csa of the wire not the diameter. http://polevolt.co.uk/acatalog/Thinwall_cable_cut_to_length.html bottom of the page is what I've used and is only 5mm outer diameter. Haven't done the earth yet but will run the 8.5mm into a ring terminal and just earth to some bare metal bodywork.

 

[Cup_Phil]

Thanks mate

 

[Korky]

Are you going to be doing a wiring guide for this mate?
Just about to order all my bits, this has been a helpful guide so far!

 

[Toastfrenzy]

Blanked off my rack and fitted the EPAS column today, all was going well until I noticed my ECU had a broken socket, don't know how i didn't notice that. It arrived sat morn and I fitted it all this morning. Where did you get your middle power feed plug from? I need one of those, James got one from a clio being broken on ebay.

Hoping that it may still all work and the ecu isn't damaged. I've asked the eBay seller - breakers in Doncaster - to send another one. Then James told me the ecu is coded to the motor -bit of a mare, don't really want to remove it all. Getting the rubber boot in correctly was a right pita. If it comes to it hoping he'll agree to just send the top half.

 

[Cup_Phil]

Are you going to be doing a wiring guide for this mate?
Just about to order all my bits, this has been a helpful guide so far!

You get a very good wiring instruction manual with the box off ebay - the wiring is actually easy
Removing the old rack is a b**ch and getting the EPAS column in without removing the bottom half of the dash is VERY fiddly.
I had to remove the motor (2 bolts) then fit it - then put the motor back on with the column kinda half in and half out twisted at an angle so I could tighten the bolts to the motor again. Not much fun. You need some patience

Blanked off my rack and fitted the EPAS column today, all was going well until I noticed my ECU had a broken socket, don't know how i didn't notice that. It arrived sat morn and I fitted it all this morning. Where did you get your middle power feed plug from? I need one of those, James got one from a clio being broken on ebay.

Hoping that it may still all work and the ecu isn't damaged. I've asked the eBay seller - breakers in Doncaster - to send another one. Then James told me the ecu is coded to the motor -bit of a mare, don't really want to remove it all. Getting the rubber boot in correctly was a right pita. If it comes to it hoping he'll agree to just send the top half.

Got my column/ecu from Renparts and it came with the middle connector and 3" of power/earth wire - very handy
That break is a bit of a b**ch as that's the side where the clip is to hold the connector in - think it'd just keep sliding out without it

I'm not sure I can see any way for the motor to be coded to the ECU - the only connectors it has is a large power/earth feed from the ECU... and I've read several places where people have fitted new or refurbed motors to their EPAS column as they apparently fail quite a bit.
I think you should be fine to just get another ECU and fit it

Unless the ECU is coded to the torque sensor but again from what I can tell that's just a power/earth and 2 signal leads
It'd be weird if they locked the ECU's to racks..

I know what you mean about that rubber bottom section - it's a pig to get it back through and lined up etc..

I had to lengthen my column a bit by sliding the bottom joint down and it fell off! LOL
So then I had to measure each side of the rack to make sure it was dead center - then center my steering wheel and try to put the knuckle joint back on in the right place so that the whole lot was centralised... without turning any of it... all on my own... not fun

 

[BIGASH]

I also thought the same but only going from what i've been told re coding. The tourque sensor is obviously a clever bit of kit from what i've seen but I don't know if that could code to the ECU

 

[Cup_Phil]

I've seen a few places offering unencoding for the Mk3 PAS ECU's so it does sound like some are locked

That's a bit of a pain if the ECU goes and you have to replace the whole column lol
French cars... who'd have em eh?

 

[_WILL_]

Just looking at other parts I need for this.

do I need a full column like this :

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RENAULT-CLIO-MK2-ELECTRIC-STEERING-COLUMN-CONTROL-UNIT-1998-2006-GMV-/151011980744?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&fits=Model%3AClio&hash=item232903f5c8


Or just a top bit and fit it to the existing column as I think it would be easier, like this:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Renault-C...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item35c62b572b

Also can I do it without the adjuster bit to start with and run it like that, then if I don't like the weight buy and wire in the adjuster at a later date?

thanks,

 

[Cup_Phil]

You need the full column as I don't believe you can swap just the top part

Also it would be an utter nightmare as the top part is totally inaccessible lol

It's a bit of a pain but you undo the pin on the rack, push the rubber through into the car, undo 4 13mm bolts holding the column on and the whole thing slides out (disconnect wiring etc.. too obviously)

 

[_WILL_]

Okay, thanks. Full column it is then.

 

[MG cup]

Getting there, I'm more tempted by this system over my saxo electric setup I have. I been as well throw in one of these columns until I decide if I do want assisted steering, at least I can just fit the motor and electrics later If I do. I would think the racing guys might have to upgrade there battery's to cope though.

 

[Cup_Phil]

Well I dropped my wiring measurements off at the auto electrician this morning - he says the existing power/earth cables are only around 32/36amp rated. So he found some cable one size bigger than standard said it was rated to continuous 50a - I said the fuse was 60a so surely that won't be enough... he then went on about how the alternator is only 75amps and the difference between peak amps and continuous draw, and how this is the same cable he uses for split charger systems on batteries so will be fine blah blah blah

I don't have huge faith but it was £15 for both cables fully crimped and made up with end connectors on for me, and he's soldering onto the existing cables for the plug and heat shrinking. So I'll give it a go. He sounded like he knew more than I did lol

 

[Cup_Phil]

Picked the cable up on my way home - cost £18 in the end.
Wired it up, wired a switched 12v feed from the ignition barrel and wired the earth up to one of the main earth points on the dashboard bar

Worked first time

On the highest setting it's easily as light as with the old PAS - but the option to turn it down or completely off is pretty awesome

There's a few bits of wiring I'd like to tidy up this weekend and I need to get all the tracking/camber setup again but other than that it's all good

 

[_WILL_]

Great. Well done getting it all done. Do you think for an everyday car you could do without the adjust?

 

[Cup_Phil]

You mean no assistance at all?

No - not at all. It's ludicrously heavy. Anything less than 10mph and I can barely move the steering.

The DCi rack is pretty quick and I have 205 tyres which might make it worse, but my car is also 100-200kg lighter than a normal cup lol

 

[_WILL_]

No I mean can I run it with just the Epas column like on a standard dci or 1.2 so with assistance but out any adjustment. Would save me 40 odd pounds to start with, I guess I could always add it at a later date. Or so I need it to get the system to work on a 172?

Sorry for the stupid questions.

 

[len_beach]

What's the steering feel like Phil?

What's the total cost?

 

[BIGASH]

No I mean can I run it with just the Epas column like on a standard dci or 1.2 so with assistance but out any adjustment. Would save me 40 odd pounds to start with, I guess I could always add it at a later date. Or so I need it to get the system to work on a 172?

Sorry for the stupid questions.

You would have to run the steering angle sensor on the rack and also work out how that talks to the EPAS ECU much more of a PITA than fitting the box off ebay

Great news Phil!

 

[Cup_Phil]

What's the steering feel like Phil?

What's the total cost?

Feels really good - with it on max it's very light and smooth, with it off there is a ton of feedback through the wheel - loads of adjustment inbetween
I think with a bit of trial and error on track I should be able to find the perfect amount of assistance without losing feedback

No I mean can I run it with just the Epas column like on a standard dci or 1.2 so with assistance but out any adjustment. Would save me 40 odd pounds to start with, I guess I could always add it at a later date. Or so I need it to get the system to work on a 172?

Sorry for the stupid questions.

You cant mate - the EPAS ecu requires a torque sensor (comes on the column), an angle sensor, comes on the DCi rack, and a speed sensor so it knows how fast your moving. The box off ebay fakes the speed and angle sensor so you can either tell it you're barely moving (full assistance) or going flat out in a straight line (no assistance).

To get it working without the box you'd have to find a DCi/1.2 speed sensor and work out some way to make it work with your car

Honestly mate the £40 is well worth it as it's a nice plug and play system

You would have to run the steering angle sensor on the rack and also work out how that talks to the EPAS ECU much more of a PITA than fitting the box off ebay

Great news Phil!

Thanks mate

 

[_WILL_]

Thanks for the info. Box of ebay it is then.

 

[Toastfrenzy]

All's good Phil, nice one.

Does the rotary switch turn if off too? Was thinking of putting an in line power switch so it's not on when I first start the car up.

Can you hear it, need to test my ecu before possibly sending back, the seller on eBay has offered me £20 refund for the damage to ecu. If it works OK i'll tie wrap the plug into the socket.

 

[NorthloopCup]

All's good Phil, nice one.

Does the rotary switch turn if off too? Was thinking of putting an in line power switch so it's not on when I first start the car up.

Can you hear it, need to test my ecu before possibly sending back, the seller on eBay has offered me £20 refund for the damage to ecu. If it works OK i'll tie wrap the plug into the socket.

yeah the rotary switch can turn it fully off pete. You can't hear a murmur off it either. It's quite a strange sensation when you have full assistance on the steering whilst pushing the car around!

 

[Cup_Phil]

Yeah that's actually my favourite thing - having the engine off but ignition on and full assisted steering
Can push it around the yard/pits now without firing it up all the time.

The only noise you hear is a loud click when the relay in the ecu turns the EPAS on and off - other than that it's silent

 

[Tony Hunter]

Ours does that, really handy.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Yeah I found that a bonus on my corsa too, although unlike a clio it was rarely needing manoeuvring without a working engine, lol

 

[MG cup]

Question for those that have fitted.

Did you just swap your standard ignition barrel over with decoder ring?

Will I need a stub of wire for all plugs on the ECU in order to wire?

Finally can someone put up a link with the reconditioned columns that has been spoken about on eBay please, I think this would be the best option for price versus condition right?