EPAS on 172 Cup

[Cup_Phil]

The PAS pump is very light - the PAS rack is a LOT heavier even with the pipes removed than the DCi rack

Like I said if you're just looping the standard rack I think it's actually a weight increase, but if you swap for a DCi rack there's definitely a decrease in weight.
Every bit helps at the front IMO

 

[MG cup]

7.8kg according to my bathroom scales for the column and ECU, definately heavier than that though. Feels like a 10kg dumbell at least.

 

[Cup_Phil]

I'd say that's about right.

Don't forget it's not all added weight - the standard cup column will weigh about 4kg on it's own

I'll weigh the bits I took off when I get home - let's make a little list seeing as loads of people are now doing this conversion

 

[Toastfrenzy]

I got one yesterday from Renparts in the end, even though it was an expensive plug - the nearest scrap yard is 15 miles away and they weren't sure thay had the plug. Worked out more cost effective to just pay and get it delivered.

So... hopefully be it'll up an running over the weekend.

Just one question whats the best ingnition feed for the power to the thin wire for control unit?

 

[Cup_Phil]

I actually took mine from the back of the ignition barrel
The big yellow cable is switched on the 1st key turn position - so I stripped a bit of the cabling off that and soldered the small control unit wire on then taped it up
It means the EPAS runs with the igniton on and engine off which is handy for moving the car about

I stuck the little control box onto the back of the dashboard and put the ecu on the proper bracket. Most of the cables actually reach but I extended the earth up to one of the main earthing points on the top of the dash

 

[NorthloopCup]

Just one question whats the best ingnition feed for the power to the thin wire for control unit?

I took mine from one of the wires going into the white plug for the wiper stalk. Power probed it to see 12volts come and disappear when ignition on/off, spliced into it using a heat shrink crimp connector and job done. It's either a white wire with a yellow trace running down it, or its the other way around! I can't remember without double checking tbh!

I'm not a big fan of soldered connections as every one I've seen has always attracted corrosion. Just my preference to use terminals.

 

[Cup_Phil]

Yeah I've not slept too well since I did it

 

[Toastfrenzy]

Thanks...! it'll be temp fix as it's all getting rewired soon...

 

[GrahamS]

Just ordered the majority of parts needed for this conversion (think).

So I'm clear about this can someone check these are the correct parts I've ordered.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/251253942011?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

[URL="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/181027314492?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649"]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/181027314492?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

[URL="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=181123123469&ssPageName=ADME:L:OC:GB:3160"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=181123123469&ssPageName=ADME:L:OC:GB:3160

[/URL][/URL]I know I'll need the centre plug for the PAS ecu, anyone know where I can get one cheaply?

Other than than I assume it's just the power and earth cables that are extras I'll need to be purchasing.

For the aux belt set up I'll have the PMS a/c delete. What extra do I need to make this kit a pas delete too without using their lightened pulley.

I know there's the knowledge I need out there

 

[Cup_Phil]

Yep all the right parts

As you say you'll need the center plug - also you'll need a 60A fuse in-line in the power cable to the ecu. Put it in the engine bay close to the battery so that if the cable shorts out under the dash at any point it doesn't burst into flames

 

[GrahamS]

Fantastic. Just need to find somewhere to get that plug from, I've posted a wanted but not holding out hope

What awg have you used on the cable to the battery? does it connect directly there and then the control box prevents the drain? Sorry for all the questions I just want to get it right. I'll try and do a guide once I get the chance.

 

[Cup_Phil]

Yeah - my cable goes straight to the split box in the engine bay as my battery is in the boot - but you'd do it straight to the battery
Earth cable I just made a short one to the big 13mm bolt on the bottom of the dashboard metalwork

The ECU itself has a huge relay in it and it cuts the power when the ignition is off - you can hear it make a click when you turn it on and off

Not entirely sure what gauge the cable is - I went a couple of mm bigger than the stuff that was on the plug and rated to 50A. Seems ok but I've not done any milage in it yet

 

[GrahamS]

Luckily the one I'm getting comes with the connector block, fab.

When I get this I want nothing to hold me back so ordered 3m of 8awg power cable as I've calculated this to be sufficient for upto about 4m in length.

Looking at the control kit. Am I going to need about 8-10 male and female electrical connectors and a couple of splice connectors then a touch of heat shrink.

 

[Cup_Phil]

You will need 8mm ring connectors for the main earth and power pickup from the battery

You will also need a smaller ring connector for the earth from the control box
Then you need to splice 4 wires from the torque sensor onto the control box wiring, 2 for the adjustor nob, and 1 for a 12v power feed
You can either do those with bullet/spade connectors or just use heat shrink crimps.
I just used marine heat shrink crimps as you can always unplug the ecu plug if you need to remove the ecu or whatever.. and they are nice and water tight around the original cables.

I can't think of any reason you'd want to unhook just the controller box

 

[GrahamS]

Got the pump and bits out. Any suggestions for getting the rack out? It's loose but I'm unsure which was to manouvre it. subframe has been dropped with the bolts in, 4 bolts holding rack on are off, pinch bolt off, tre ball joints are out of the hubs.

 

[Cup_Phil]

Ahh welcome to the bit where you start swearing and losing your knuckles

Drivers side wheel arch
Remove both the rear subframe bolts completely
Undo the front subframe bolts as far as you dare - I think I actually removed the front subframe bolt on the drivers side fully and supported the front of the subframe on a trolley jack

Then use a crowbar/bit of wood/trolley jack handle etc... to pry the back drivers side corner of the subframe down - while manouvering the PAS rack out towards you
It does come - it just takes a bit of twisting/turning/wiggling and pushing the subframe down as obviously at this point the ARB/wishbones will be holding the subframe up

The DCi one slots straight in even with the subframe tightened up lol

 

[MG cup]

Remember to take the the column off first, frame support bars to the chassis legs, lower gearbox mount, dog bone, gear linkage might need lowered too, strut top caps and then lower it all down with a jack at the rear of the frame and the front bolts left in.

edit: re read your piece, make sure the clamp is off from the column to rack pinion as this can hold it up even with the pinch bolt out.

 

[Cup_Phil]

I didn't bother with the strut tops at all and left the gear linkage in place
You can just lever the back of the subframe down enough to pull the rack out

But yes I assumed when you said you'd dropped the subframe that rear dogbone mount, both the drop bars and the gearbox mount had been undone but if not you definitely need to as Swede says

 

[_WILL_]

I know its a pain but please could you make this into a guide now? I am planning on doing it soon and reading through this thread every time I need something, although interesting, is quite time consuming!!

 

[Cup_Phil]

I'll try mate yes - but I didn't take as many photos as I had hoped due to being a bit stressed doing it lol

 

[Tony Hunter]

Got the pump and bits out. Any suggestions for getting the rack out? It's loose but I'm unsure which was to manouvre it. subframe has been dropped with the bolts in, 4 bolts holding rack on are off, pinch bolt off, tre ball joints are out of the hubs.

​Angle grinder.

 

[MG cup]

​Angle grinder.

Don't forget the 30lb sledge and the scaffolding tube.

To lower the subframe is pretty simple although time consuming sometimes, work through every connection between it the car and the steering rack and you can't go wrong.

My control box arrived today, its tiny I was expecting bigger for some reason and the wiring instructions are 'SO' easy its unreal.

 

[GrahamS]

I will try and make the best guide I can but it will be for fitting and not removing all the old stuff. It's difficult to take photos whilst stuffed under a car at midnight!

I'll give it a go tonight. If all fails I'll just drop the frame with all the stuff on.

No Tony! I want to sell the rack not donate it to my local overflowing pick up transit metal fund.

 

[GrahamS]

Don't forget the 30lb sledge and the scaffolding tube.

To lower the subframe is pretty simple although time consuming sometimes, work through every connection between it the car and the steering rack and you can't go wrong.

My control box arrived today, its tiny I was expecting bigger for some reason and the wiring instructions are 'SO' easy its unreal.

How long did that take Swede? mine was dispatched yesterday

 

[MG cup]

Bought the 18th, supposedly shipped the 19th and arrived today.

 

[Cup_Phil]

Yeah mine took 2-3 days to arrive. Brilliant service from the guy

I'm wondering when he's gonna run out though considering there's a dozen of us ordering them at the moment lol

 

[GrahamS]

Really the box is just a resistor for the torque sensor and a variable resistor (dial switch) for the speed sensor. All set so they are within the plausible readings range for the ecu. Probably cost a couple of quid to make but it's just handy for us to buy them made up. Bet he's making a nice quick dollar

 

[Cup_Phil]

I think it does a little more than that as you don't have the steering angle sensor connected so it has to fake that input and there's a bit of a delay between you setting it to high and the assistance increasing so I think there's a bit of some magic going on in the middle
But yeah he's probably making a bit of money from it - fair play to the guy working it all out and packaging it in a nice box

 

[Chip-mk1]

Really the box is just a resistor for the torque sensor and a variable resistor (dial switch) for the speed sensor. All set so they are within the plausible readings range for the ecu. Probably cost a couple of quid to make but it's just handy for us to buy them made up. Bet he's making a nice quick dollar

Are you sure? The ones I've used before have been PWM signal generators.

 

[Cup_Phil]

Yeah that sounds more likely thinking about it all

The angle sensor is usually just a 0-5v resistor but I think vehicle speed sensors normally produce 5v pulses - so when you turn the adjustor nob something in that little box needs to create a pulse signal to the ecu pretending to be a speed sensor.

 

[Chip-mk1]

It doesn't mimic the angle sensor as you retain that anyway just engine and/or vehicle speed pulse.

 

[Cup_Phil]

No you don't

The angle sensor is on the rack - you leave it unplugged

You keep the torque sensor on the column
Unless the torque sensor also does the angle - but then what's the point of the angle sensor on the column?

Or is that for ESP/ABS or something.... Feck me it's all complex lol

 

[Tony Hunter]

No Tony! I want to sell the rack not donate it to my local overflowing pick up transit metal fund.

​Ok,, only trying to help.

 

[GrahamS]

Box of tricks that I'd rather pay for that what I know.

Got the rack out in the end and all the pas gear. Fluid everywhere. Update in 2 weeks when the Renault 5 brackets come from France

 

[Cup_Phil]

I'm still trying to clean PAS fluid off my yard lol

 

[truu]

hello
if anyone can help me fast!

Building a rally car! LADA VFTS +C20XE engine + Renault Clio 2 - Electric power steering controller box - ECU plug - EPAS RALLY

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Renault-Clio...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item2a26119b3c

Why do I get the power steering did not work?

issues:

1) Is it sure that the module (pin 20) does not need to connect more wires?
That the engine does not have the cord from the brain out?

2) whether the power steering and the module must be complex?
Not purchased separately!

For me, they were sold separately!

thanks
A

 

[truu]

'll also get some pictures

http://www.upload.ee/image/3265491/20130426_153127.jpg

http://www.upload.ee/image/3265521/20130426_153105.jpg

http://www.upload.ee/image/3265528/20130426_153116.jpg

Is this power steering will be activated when the engine is not running?

 

[Cup_Phil]

Are the wheels on the floor? It only works when it can sense torque from the column?

Do you hear a click in the EPAS ECU when you apply power to the +12v wire?

 

[truu]

Are the wheels on the floor? It only works when it can sense torque from the column?

Do you hear a click in the EPAS ECU when you apply power to the +12v wire?

1) wheels on the ground.
2) there is a moment to hear the voice of a relay.
But I'm not sure whether it's your ECU.

tester by measuring the average power connector, but after the power is not going to power steering.

Excuse poor English language as well!

 

[MG cup]

Were the ECU and column a matched pair? (Not sure if that will make a difference when retro fitting)