EPAS on 172 Cup

Cup_Phil · Sep 9, 2013

_WILL_ said:
For the people who struggle with the way suspension works etc. I would advise purchasing the following:

Car Suspension at Work, Theory & practice of Steering, Handling and Road Holding by Jeffery Daniels.

It is a good starting point and generally it is pretty easy to understand. The odd bit is a little badly written but all in it's a great place to start with the theory of a lot of suspension set up and design. You can usually get a used copy of amazon pretty cheap.

Ignore that it has a A class on the front cover!!

for the guys that already know ignore me.

Thanks for the recommendation. I've read a fair bit on suspension theory in the past but for such an old book it's really good. Covers nearly everything from what I can see from my skim through.

Bit of lunch time reading

Chip-mk1 · Sep 9, 2013

When you think that a mini had unequal length double wishbone front suspension in 1959, it shows how far back people have known how to make a car handle so its weird there was so much rubbish from the 60s-90s that didnt, lol.

_WILL_ · Sep 9, 2013

Cup_Phil said:
Thanks for the recommendation. I've read a fair bit on suspension theory in the past but for such an old book it's really good. Covers nearly everything from what I can see from my skim through.

Bit of lunch time reading

It doesn't go into a lot of detail, but it is the book I always have with me at work etc. as its very easy to skim through and find what you need. Some of the hand drawn drawings in it are quite amusing as well!

vjs · Oct 2, 2013

Maybe I missed something just a question if this conversion to EPAS will work on 172 ph1?

NorthloopCup · Oct 2, 2013

vjs said:
Maybe I missed something just a question if this conversion to EPAS will work on 172 ph1?

Yeah it'll work fine mate.

vjs · Oct 2, 2013

What an exact parts should I buy for my 172 ph1?
Thanks in advance

GrahamS · Oct 2, 2013

Same parts as listed on the thread. There will be nothing that differs for a ph1 as I assume you will/have removed the a/c

Part numbers are within the thread somewhere.

You'd need rack, cup or renault 5 alternator bracket, control box, column with ecu and a few wiring bits and pieces.

vjs · Oct 2, 2013

Ok, I'll do the readings here on 31 pages thread to get what exact parts I need

Is this one I need:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Renault-C...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item417754e268

Or

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RENAULT-5...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item35cc168035

?

MG cup · Oct 2, 2013

The top one but its just one of the brackets with no bolts, tension rod and the alternator needed.

Heres what you need in post #4 & #13. Where are you in Europe?

http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?704980-Garage-clearout

vjs · Oct 2, 2013

Swede cup said:
The top one but its just one of the brackets with no bolts, tension rod and the alternator needed.

Heres what you need in post #4 & #13. Where are you in Europe?

Lithuania. Seems I should look for a parts at local cars junk yards. Do I need a cup alty? the 172 ph1 won't fit?

MG cup · Oct 2, 2013

I could post that setup to you for a good price?

If you can find a 172 cup in Lithuania you would be doing well I think, yeah it has to be a cup alternator with the cup brackets, its lower amps too.

vjs · Oct 2, 2013

Swede cup said:
I could post that setup to you for a good price?

If you can find a 172 cup in Lithuania you would be doing well I think, yeah it has to be a cup alternator with the cup brackets, its lower amps too.

PM sent

Ph1 Tom · Oct 2, 2013

I take it I can fit a manual rack and then do the electrics later on?

NorthloopCup · Oct 2, 2013

Ph1 Tom said:
I take it I can fit a manual rack and then do the electrics later on?

Yeah don't see why not Tom.

Chip-mk1 · Oct 2, 2013

Do you mean rack, or rack and column?

Only IME if you install the column with the motor in place, without the electrics it will be very hard to turn as you are working against the motor.
Thats from corsa setups though, Phil can probably answer better about the clio specifically as he can try just turning his off

NorthloopCup · Oct 2, 2013

Chip-mk1 said:
Do you mean rack, or rack and column?

Only IME if you install the column with the motor in place, without the electrics it will be very hard to turn as you are working against the motor.
Thats from corsa setups though, Phil can probably answer better about the clio specifically as he can try just turning his off

Nah the columns ain't that stiff at all chip.

Cup_Phil · Oct 3, 2013

The column doesn't seem to offer any extra resistance when it's turned off - just the manual rack being heavy as you would expect

Chip-mk1 · Oct 3, 2013

Thats cool then

At least if you fail its not going to cause you a big problem, just be inconvenient.

vjs · Oct 5, 2013

I got an issue

UK part number of 1.2 steering column is 7700437048 (a way cheaper) and for European steering column part number is 7700437049 (more expensive).
Visually it is no difference. Any help please?

Chip-mk1 · Oct 7, 2013

Is the barrel for the key not on the opposite side?

vjs · Oct 7, 2013

Chip-mk1 said:
Is the barrel for the key not on the opposite side?

Seems they are on the same side...

vjs · Oct 9, 2013

Maybe I missed something but wondering if is it necessary to use the tie rod joints FTR5277 wit the 1.5 dCi rack or I can reuse it with my 172 ph1 inner tie rods? Or just leave the 1.5 dCi ones?

Cup_Phil · Oct 9, 2013

You can re-use your own inner tie-rods if there's no play
The FTR rods are for cups as they're longer.

TBH though with it all apart I'd spend the extra £30 and fit brand new ones. Mine didn't seem to have any play in they were just a bit loose - but fitting new ones made the car feel like new again. It's insane how just a tiny bit of wear on them makes such a difference to steering response

vjs · Oct 9, 2013

Thank You. I just need to find the new rods for my ph1 then as I suppose the FTR's won't fit me.

v16daf · Oct 20, 2013

Nearly finished stripping the old bits off the car for this conversion now. New parts should be with me Tuesday. I take it you pull the ignition barrel off the current column and swap it to the X65 column?

NorthloopCup · Oct 20, 2013

v16daf said:
Nearly finished stripping the old bits off the car for this conversion now. New parts should be with me Tuesday. I take it you pull the ignition barrel off the current column and swap it to the X65 column?

Yes mate.

v16daf · Oct 20, 2013

NorthloopCup said:
Yes mate.

How does it unclip? Thanks

NorthloopCup · Oct 20, 2013

v16daf said:
How does it unclip? Thanks

There are some screws that hold it in I think from memory. You need the key in the ignition to remove the barrel as well. It needs to be in the acc position, but again that's only from memory. It's been a while since I've did mine. It is easy though!

v16daf · Oct 20, 2013

NorthloopCup said:
There are some screws that hold it in I think from memory. You need the key in the ignition to remove the barrel as well. It needs to be in the acc position, but again that's only from memory. It's been a while since I've did mine. It is easy though!

Thanks, will have a go tomorrow night

v16daf · Oct 28, 2013

Right got the wiring finished off tonight and it doesn't work. I've checked everything and I think I've installed everything as the guide says. The ECU doesn't click when I turn the ignition. There is over 12volts coming into the unit though. The red connector which feeds into the motor on the column only has 0.48v. Is the ECU not working right?

Cup_Phil · Oct 28, 2013

Ecu isn't kicking in.

Have you wired in the switched 12v to the ignition?

v16daf · Oct 29, 2013

Cup_Phil said:
Ecu isn't kicking in.

Have you wired in the switched 12v to the ignition?

Yes, I tested some wires with the multimeter and found a suitable one above the break pedal. Used a quick splice. I'll check it to see if it picks up power

v16daf · Oct 29, 2013

Right checked the splice and there is over 12volt coming into it once I turn the ignition, it could be that the black wire hasn't been cut correctly while I squeezed them on? Will re-wire it tonight after work to see. It does sound like the culprit

Cup_Phil · Oct 29, 2013

The earth?

v16daf · Oct 29, 2013

Cup_Phil said:
The earth?

No the black wire that joins to the ignition. It could have not joined correctly?

Cup_Phil · Oct 29, 2013

Oh. Possibly but if you're getting 12v at the ecu plug then I would have thought it's ok

v16daf · Oct 29, 2013

Cup_Phil said:
Oh. Possibly but if you're getting 12v at the ecu plug then I would have thought it's ok

I'm picking up 12v at the metal part of the quick splice, it could be that it hasn't grounded on the black wire within the splice? It's a possibility. No way I can check the black wire itself as it joins into the controller box. I've earthed the white wire just underneath the tweeters

Cup_Phil · Oct 29, 2013

Oh god. Quick splice?

The ecu powers the motor and draws nearly 60amps mate.

I took my permanent 12v from the battery with a 60a inline fuse, the switched 12v I stripped one of the ignition wire's back and soldered it on then put some heat shrink over the connection and the earth goes straight to the main metal bolt for the dash.

I don't think I'd be wanting to rely on a quick splice connector for the feed to the ECU - it will likely cut in and out while driving which on track could be pretty bad.

v16daf · Oct 29, 2013

Cup_Phil said:
Oh god. Quick splice?

The ecu powers the motor and draws nearly 60amps mate.

I took my permanent 12v from the battery with a 60a inline fuse, the switched 12v I stripped one of the ignition wire's back and soldered it on then put some heat shrink over the connection and the earth goes straight to the main metal bolt for the dash.

I don't think I'd be wanting to rely on a quick splice connector for the feed to the ECU - it will likely cut in and out while driving which on track could be pretty bad.

I've done the bit in red like you have, I'll try and solder the switched 12v instead of using the quick splice then. Electrics is not my best skill, I'm very poor at it TBH

Cup_Phil · Oct 29, 2013

Hehe so am I - I just borrowed a soldering iron, stripped half an inch of insulation from the switched 12v cable on the back of the ignition switch, stripped 2 inches of the end of the thin wire going to the EPAS - wrapped it around the bare part of the 12v cable, held the soldering iron under it until the whole thing heated up, fed some solder into it and then stuck some heat wrap over the whole lot. It's not the most professional finish in the world but a soldered joint is a lot more resilient to vibrations

EPAS on 172 Cup

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