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Fred and James’ Clio 182 Racecar Project
- Thread starter FrogJam Motorsport
- Start date
-
- Tags
- 182 race racecar track track build
FrogJam Motorsport
ClioSport Trader
Haha, I’m glad I watched the HPA videos as I knew what Greg was talking about and what the sort of steps were but that’s as far as the HPA videos would get you. Was proper impressed with how much Greg knew and how open he was about what he was doing. So not going to go anywhere else when we next need any tuning doing.
FrogJam Motorsport
ClioSport Trader
Job for the next couple of evenings. PMS rear beam shims arrived today so will get the rear toe sorted too.
Cool. Having rcc/the lower joint closer to the ground effects steering weight, I dont have rcc and my steering is so god damn heavy, I have decent strength but If an animal or small child ran out in the middle of the road theyd be a goner 😄 Hopefully you can run that caster and not have a by product of high amounts of mechanical trail. Im slowly designing (more thinking) of what Im going to do with mine as Im going to run laguna hubs and want the best balance possible.
FrogJam Motorsport
ClioSport Trader
Will be interesting to see what it’s like. Thinking of starting around 6 degrees of castor at the front, see how it feels. Also have a small steering wheel so may need a different one if the steering is too hard but we’ll see. Booked in for some testing next week so not look until we’ll find out. There’s lots of options if it’s a problem (less castor/more camber, epas, power steering back in etc).
Ive had standard hpas, quick rack hpas, epas with quick rack, manual quick rack.. Theres just something not right about the the pas in these cars, running aggressive alignment puts the pas to work and the torsion bar twists so much before you get assistance, its very unsettling. The recent rack modification I did with manual quick rack really opened my eyes to what steering should actually feel like. As Im set on hpas, my only option is to run a woodward steering servo, they use them in some lmp cars and many other high end race cars so Im fairly confident it will be what Im after! I did look at designing my own spool valve profile after looking at a few patents, but its just beyond my ability as they arnt exactly instruction manuals.
frayz
ClioSport Club Member
Did you guys mount the Vette brake ducts yet? I was keen to see how you integrated them to the fog lights. Mine are here, I've just not looked at them yet. 
FrogJam Motorsport
ClioSport Trader
Yes we did, well if you call sticking 1 bolt in mounting then yes.Did you guys mount the Vette brake ducts yet? I was keen to see how you integrated them to the fog lights. Mine are here, I've just not looked at them yet.
They fit tight up against the original fog light holes so haven’t done anything else yet.
I’ve seen someone put a bolt in the top of the duct near the front into the bumper beam which looks like a good idea.
FrogJam Motorsport
ClioSport Trader
Post number 23.
The moment we’ve been working towards for a while now.
There were a few things that needed to be sorted before the first test but nothing major really.
So after a bit of trial and error with the shims, changed camber as well as toe at the same time which Nick does say not to do but got it close to start with, I ended up with the below setup.
Really happy with the rear beam setup. Can always add an extra 10 minute shim for a bit of toe out which should equate to a little over 1mm of toe. Then less sure on the front but will soon see.
Stole a seat and harness out of James’ car for the time being incase we both wanted to go out in it.
Then it was time for the big day, both of us pretty excited and couldn’t have asked for better weather (Friday 4th June).
Was £80 for the day, 9:30 to 4:30. There was 2 cars, 1 bike and a drift car so was split into 3 sessions. First few turns worked perfectly just sorting the timings out between ourselves but by 11ish the bike was done so just took it in turns with the drift car so certainly didn’t have a lack of track time. so highly recommend Teesside for testing from our first experience and from speaking with the other 3 people it’s fairly typical.
But anyway, first session out in the car and first impressions are that the car is mega!
Did a couple of slow laps to start but then soon had the confidence to push a little harder. Did about 10 minutes and then came in to look over the car, then it was James’ turn to go out, he too had the same impression.
We were both over the moon with the car, initial worries that we would be slightly underwhelmed went straight away. Didn’t think we would even contemplate doing any changes but had a play with the damper setting. Rear was turned all the way up so set all the dampers to the middle setting and did make a fair bit of difference, certainly felt more planted but was hard to tell as we were only really judging it on one corner. But anyway, here are some pictures and videos.
The moment we’ve been working towards for a while now.
There were a few things that needed to be sorted before the first test but nothing major really.
- Passenger seat
- Passenger harness and anti sub eyelet plates
- Plug fire extinguisher in and test
- Front toe
- Sort sandwich plate oil leak
- Engine oil change
- Torque RTB body mount bolts
- Castor adjust
- Rubber mount EMU/PMU plate
- New tyres
- Rear toe and camber
- Adjust handbrake park lock
So after a bit of trial and error with the shims, changed camber as well as toe at the same time which Nick does say not to do but got it close to start with, I ended up with the below setup.
Really happy with the rear beam setup. Can always add an extra 10 minute shim for a bit of toe out which should equate to a little over 1mm of toe. Then less sure on the front but will soon see.
Stole a seat and harness out of James’ car for the time being incase we both wanted to go out in it.
Then it was time for the big day, both of us pretty excited and couldn’t have asked for better weather (Friday 4th June).
Was £80 for the day, 9:30 to 4:30. There was 2 cars, 1 bike and a drift car so was split into 3 sessions. First few turns worked perfectly just sorting the timings out between ourselves but by 11ish the bike was done so just took it in turns with the drift car so certainly didn’t have a lack of track time. so highly recommend Teesside for testing from our first experience and from speaking with the other 3 people it’s fairly typical.
But anyway, first session out in the car and first impressions are that the car is mega!
Did a couple of slow laps to start but then soon had the confidence to push a little harder. Did about 10 minutes and then came in to look over the car, then it was James’ turn to go out, he too had the same impression.
We were both over the moon with the car, initial worries that we would be slightly underwhelmed went straight away. Didn’t think we would even contemplate doing any changes but had a play with the damper setting. Rear was turned all the way up so set all the dampers to the middle setting and did make a fair bit of difference, certainly felt more planted but was hard to tell as we were only really judging it on one corner. But anyway, here are some pictures and videos.
FrogJam Motorsport
ClioSport Trader
Post number 23 continued.
Onboard video of one of the quicker laps. Still plenty of time out there as I’m sure you can tell but was still taking it reasonably easy.
Had a few little issues with the ADU which needed tweaking. One of them being the fuel level was fluctuating a lot even though I had the filtering turned on. I have subsequently worked out that I was displaying the raw input rather than the filtered output so that one is a nice easy fix. Below shows the log of the unfiltered vs filtered, hence the fuel light kept coming on but I’m sure that will be fixed now.
So things were going far too smoothly and eventually ran into our first proper issue. LHS wheel was covered in grease. Was certainly from the outer CV boot but couldn’t see exactly what had happened to it. Both clips still in place so assumed the boot had split so decided to pack up and head home, we did have spare clips but no spare boots, but either way we had had a brilliant day so couldn’t have asked for any more really so a broken boot/drive shaft wasn’t much of a problem compared to what could have gone wrong.
A few other things that we concluded from the day was 100% the next upgrade is going to be a new gearbox and LSD, 3rd gear had the delightful crunch and it felt like the inside wheel was spinning up which was also shown on the logs. So at 75% throttle, vehicle speed was 70kph, outside wheel speed 70kph and inside wheel was 101kph. The other thing that the logs showed was that the wheel speed sensors cut out around 140kph, almost certain this is due to the abs rings, so going to remove half of the teeth on the rings which should mean there will be plenty of margin speed wise.
Car sounded great with the combo of the air intake and PMS exhaust.
Couldn’t have gone much better really but a few things to sort before Croft in a couple weeks time.
Will do another update prior to Croft with the findings of the cv boot/driveshaft and the changes to the ADU.
Thinking about doing a video purely on the ECUMaster kit. Too much detail to show with only pictures and text really.
Onboard video of one of the quicker laps. Still plenty of time out there as I’m sure you can tell but was still taking it reasonably easy.
Had a few little issues with the ADU which needed tweaking. One of them being the fuel level was fluctuating a lot even though I had the filtering turned on. I have subsequently worked out that I was displaying the raw input rather than the filtered output so that one is a nice easy fix. Below shows the log of the unfiltered vs filtered, hence the fuel light kept coming on but I’m sure that will be fixed now.
So things were going far too smoothly and eventually ran into our first proper issue. LHS wheel was covered in grease. Was certainly from the outer CV boot but couldn’t see exactly what had happened to it. Both clips still in place so assumed the boot had split so decided to pack up and head home, we did have spare clips but no spare boots, but either way we had had a brilliant day so couldn’t have asked for any more really so a broken boot/drive shaft wasn’t much of a problem compared to what could have gone wrong.
A few other things that we concluded from the day was 100% the next upgrade is going to be a new gearbox and LSD, 3rd gear had the delightful crunch and it felt like the inside wheel was spinning up which was also shown on the logs. So at 75% throttle, vehicle speed was 70kph, outside wheel speed 70kph and inside wheel was 101kph. The other thing that the logs showed was that the wheel speed sensors cut out around 140kph, almost certain this is due to the abs rings, so going to remove half of the teeth on the rings which should mean there will be plenty of margin speed wise.
Car sounded great with the combo of the air intake and PMS exhaust.
Couldn’t have gone much better really but a few things to sort before Croft in a couple weeks time.
Will do another update prior to Croft with the findings of the cv boot/driveshaft and the changes to the ADU.
Thinking about doing a video purely on the ECUMaster kit. Too much detail to show with only pictures and text really.
FrogJam Motorsport
ClioSport Trader
Thanks mate, really appreciate it.
I’ll get on with doing the next post about finding new cv boots and our trip to Croft last Monday.
FrogJam Motorsport
ClioSport Trader
Post number 24.
CV boot replacement and Croft track day.
First up was fixing the CV boot and working out what had gone wrong. Didn’t know if it was catching somewhere? Already split? Or just a poor quality boot as many have experience from the J&R shafts.
Was pretty certain the split was down to the boot being either poor quality or too big so the rubber was bunched together and rubbing. Both left and right hand sides had lots of cracks as seen in the second picture so needed to find some other boots.
The first lot of Clio boots which we ordered were too big so tried some FCB 6369 which are meant for a Fiat Panda but sizes seemed right so gave them ago. Fitted perfectly. So replaced both outer CV boots with these.
Another problem we found at Teesside was that the intake manifold was touching the strut brace, didn’t notice a noise but one area had some marks on it. The original one was just straight so made a new one with a slight bend in it. Roll bent 40X20mm oval tube with solid 20mm bosses at either end. Now gives decent clearance to the intake manifold. For once this went exactly to plan and didn’t take 3 times as long as you thought it would.
Wanted to get the trackday gear more organised so each time we go it’s not hours of work getting all the gear together and in the car. So bought 6 commercial boxes with lids so it would “just” be a case of chucking the 6 boxes in the back of the car and not have to worry about forgetting something.
Ended up fitting a huge amount into 5 boxes so well worth it and means the stuff is nice and easy to find rather than a load of loose bits in the car. Fuel tanks and trolley jack then goes in the back of the Clio.
CV boot replacement and Croft track day.
First up was fixing the CV boot and working out what had gone wrong. Didn’t know if it was catching somewhere? Already split? Or just a poor quality boot as many have experience from the J&R shafts.
Was pretty certain the split was down to the boot being either poor quality or too big so the rubber was bunched together and rubbing. Both left and right hand sides had lots of cracks as seen in the second picture so needed to find some other boots.
The first lot of Clio boots which we ordered were too big so tried some FCB 6369 which are meant for a Fiat Panda but sizes seemed right so gave them ago. Fitted perfectly. So replaced both outer CV boots with these.
Another problem we found at Teesside was that the intake manifold was touching the strut brace, didn’t notice a noise but one area had some marks on it. The original one was just straight so made a new one with a slight bend in it. Roll bent 40X20mm oval tube with solid 20mm bosses at either end. Now gives decent clearance to the intake manifold. For once this went exactly to plan and didn’t take 3 times as long as you thought it would.
Wanted to get the trackday gear more organised so each time we go it’s not hours of work getting all the gear together and in the car. So bought 6 commercial boxes with lids so it would “just” be a case of chucking the 6 boxes in the back of the car and not have to worry about forgetting something.
Ended up fitting a huge amount into 5 boxes so well worth it and means the stuff is nice and easy to find rather than a load of loose bits in the car. Fuel tanks and trolley jack then goes in the back of the Clio.
Good shout on the CV boots - been having a hard time finding a replacement for one on mine that's been botched
FrogJam Motorsport
ClioSport Trader
Post number 24 continued.
Time for the first trackday at Croft. Got all setup, gazebo came in handy as it was wet in the morning but luckily dried up in the afternoon.
First time out for sound check and sighting laps.
I will add some more photos from the Javelin Trackday photographer at the end.
Morning went great, taking it pretty easy as it was wet, quite a few red flags including one within the first 5 minutes after someone backed their Subaru into the tyre barrier. Post lunch it was drying up and starting going quicker however there was a pretty bad noise when going round right handers so assumed something for rubbing front left. So came in and had a good look but couldn’t really see anything. Decided to raise the front left up a few turns to be sure nothing was rubbing but noise was only becoming worse and also wasn‘t just in right handers so had a look at all corner. Rear left pads were massively worn and very hot, we should have noticed the different colour wheel really.
However we were both happy that we found the problem, were pretty certain that this was going to be the noise. Can hear it in the onboard Video. So once we found this we thought sod it, we’ll each do a full stint each and call it a day. Track was much quieter and fully dry too.
Once home had a proper look at the rear Left, bearing was completely screwed so no wonder we had a noise which sounded like another engine going in the car. pretty sure this was caused by the pad not being able to float properly so will be more careful when installing the replacement. Don’t think we’d get many more miles out of the pads.
Still having a problem with the wheel speed sensors. Not detecting at higher speeds, so now assuming the teeth are not wide enough for the Hall effect sensors to pick up so need a re think there.
However for our first track day we were over the moon. James managed a 1:43.6 and after looking through the data and videos of both our laps there is still plenty of time to gain. Combining our best sector times we did a virtual 1:40.1 so car is more than capable, drivers need more practice however!
Time for the first trackday at Croft. Got all setup, gazebo came in handy as it was wet in the morning but luckily dried up in the afternoon.
First time out for sound check and sighting laps.
I will add some more photos from the Javelin Trackday photographer at the end.
Morning went great, taking it pretty easy as it was wet, quite a few red flags including one within the first 5 minutes after someone backed their Subaru into the tyre barrier. Post lunch it was drying up and starting going quicker however there was a pretty bad noise when going round right handers so assumed something for rubbing front left. So came in and had a good look but couldn’t really see anything. Decided to raise the front left up a few turns to be sure nothing was rubbing but noise was only becoming worse and also wasn‘t just in right handers so had a look at all corner. Rear left pads were massively worn and very hot, we should have noticed the different colour wheel really.
However we were both happy that we found the problem, were pretty certain that this was going to be the noise. Can hear it in the onboard Video. So once we found this we thought sod it, we’ll each do a full stint each and call it a day. Track was much quieter and fully dry too.
Once home had a proper look at the rear Left, bearing was completely screwed so no wonder we had a noise which sounded like another engine going in the car. pretty sure this was caused by the pad not being able to float properly so will be more careful when installing the replacement. Don’t think we’d get many more miles out of the pads.
Still having a problem with the wheel speed sensors. Not detecting at higher speeds, so now assuming the teeth are not wide enough for the Hall effect sensors to pick up so need a re think there.
However for our first track day we were over the moon. James managed a 1:43.6 and after looking through the data and videos of both our laps there is still plenty of time to gain. Combining our best sector times we did a virtual 1:40.1 so car is more than capable, drivers need more practice however!
FrogJam Motorsport
ClioSport Trader
Here is the onboard video. This lap is a 1:44.91, James went quicker than this but didn't have the GoPro on for that session unfortunately.
FrogJam Motorsport
ClioSport Trader
Post number 25.
Needed to get the rear brakes sorted. So changed the disc and pads and made sure the pads could move and all seemed fine.
However after applying the brakes the rear left was locked solid, this was obviously the problem which caused the pads to wear down so quickly. So in a way I was pleased to find what the problem was.
So took the calliper off to investigate what was causing the piston not to release once the pressure is released. Clamped the piston to see if it would retract at all and would not shift at all. As we are not using the handbrake I decided it was best to remove the hand brake adjustment mechanism from inside the piston then there was nothing which could stop the piston retracting. I am assuming I had assembled the mechanism incorrectly when rebuilding them originally, but didn't want to risk having the same problem again.
Reassembled to the car again and tried the brake again and no issues. Decided to do the same to the right hand side as well just as a preventative measure.
At short notice we managed to get a cancellation spot at Croft (Javelin, 16/7/21). So was a good job the brakes we sorted (so I thought).
Bought a spare rear disc and some pads just incase we had a problem in the future so that was the only extra thing we took for the track day. It was going to be roasting so the gazebo was going to come in very handy.
Same setup as last time at Croft. I was sat on the chair on top of the trailer watching James doing laps along with the other cars on track and thought days don't get too much better really.
The roof scoop works a treat whilst moving and neither of us were too hot in the car whilst driving which was great. Maybe a different story when wearing a race suit though. However when you weren't moving, couple of times waiting for red flag stoppages it got a little warm, but kept the door open and was bearable.
So couple of issues on the day. First one was a weird/silly one. When the brakes overheated at the last track day the anti-knock springs/clips pretty much melted so lost their shape so just binned them and thought nothing of it. Whilst James went out for the first session he lost brakes on about the 2nd or 3rd lap, managed to bring the car back in without any issue which was lucky. The dreaded rear left again!
Brake fluid all over the wheel, so off the wheel came and the brake pads were missing. Lucky someone found one of the pads and the retaining angle/pin near by so put the piston back in, put a new set of pads in, put the retaining angle back in with the pins. Gave the pads a rattle and sure enough the angle slipped out and pads could then be pulled out. Not sure if this was caused by not having the anti-knock springs or if the retaining angle was too loose? Anyone else have an issue like this.
James came up with a quick fix, turn the angle round to have the longer side against the pads, neither of us could then wiggle the pads loose so thought we'd give it ago. Sure enough no issues for the rest of the day with the pads. But at lunch time a couple new sets of retaining/fitting kits were ordered to fix it properly.
So the rest of the morning went without issue.
A little after lunch I went out for a session and started to hear the same noise as last time, I was sure it was another rear wheel bearing had gone so thought sod it I am going to finish my stint off and then check it. We tend to do about 20 minutes each then come in and swap over, works well for us both and is the sort of time we would be driving in the Trackday Championship so feel it is a good routine to get in to.
So came in, broke the news to James and sure enough rear bearing was knackered. We had bought a spare incase this happened in the future but wasn't expecting it to happen this soon. Pads were absolutely fine so the problem we thought was one issue last time must have been 2 separate issues but couldn't have helped. Getting good practice at changing rear pads and discs so car was back on the ground in no time and James went out for his session.
So another great day but still left us scratching our heads to what was up with the rear bearing. I know they are a weak point but having to change them every couple hours of running certainly isn't right. Bent stub axles? Stub axles worn down? It wasn't the spacer, that was the correct way round and nut torqued to 175Nm. Anyone got any other ideas?
Eitherway, with Donington coming up in a couple weeks time we didn't want to mess around with finding a replacement stub axles and seeing if that worked so splashed out and bought the PureMotorsport rear stub axle kit, uses the Mk3 discs which have a larger bearing. So this should be the end of the rear bearing issue.
So they should be here on Tuesday (20/7/21). So will show fitting them in the next post. Will be interesting to see how far out the alignment is once fitting the new stub axles. Perhaps that will explain why the Toe was so far out.
Here is a short clip of James running wide between sunny in and sunny out. Gopro didn't play ball as it kept overheating so frustratingly didn't record our fastest laps.
James managed a 1:42.247 and I managed a 1:43.284. I was happy that I managed to close the gap a little bit compared to last time and after a quick look at the lap time data I was losing 0.9 seconds in one braking point and corner so not too far off at least. I will do a proper post on the ECUMaster lap timing software when I have a proper look at it and get some decent onboards to link the times too. However this is the sort of detail it gives you. Can break the lap down by every straight and corner to compare laps.
Will be even better once ECUMaster release their new bit of software which allows you to add video to the analysis software, will be really cool. And will be great once we become more consistent and start dialling in the setup.
Needed to get the rear brakes sorted. So changed the disc and pads and made sure the pads could move and all seemed fine.
However after applying the brakes the rear left was locked solid, this was obviously the problem which caused the pads to wear down so quickly. So in a way I was pleased to find what the problem was.
So took the calliper off to investigate what was causing the piston not to release once the pressure is released. Clamped the piston to see if it would retract at all and would not shift at all. As we are not using the handbrake I decided it was best to remove the hand brake adjustment mechanism from inside the piston then there was nothing which could stop the piston retracting. I am assuming I had assembled the mechanism incorrectly when rebuilding them originally, but didn't want to risk having the same problem again.
Reassembled to the car again and tried the brake again and no issues. Decided to do the same to the right hand side as well just as a preventative measure.
At short notice we managed to get a cancellation spot at Croft (Javelin, 16/7/21). So was a good job the brakes we sorted (so I thought).
Bought a spare rear disc and some pads just incase we had a problem in the future so that was the only extra thing we took for the track day. It was going to be roasting so the gazebo was going to come in very handy.
Same setup as last time at Croft. I was sat on the chair on top of the trailer watching James doing laps along with the other cars on track and thought days don't get too much better really.
The roof scoop works a treat whilst moving and neither of us were too hot in the car whilst driving which was great. Maybe a different story when wearing a race suit though. However when you weren't moving, couple of times waiting for red flag stoppages it got a little warm, but kept the door open and was bearable.
So couple of issues on the day. First one was a weird/silly one. When the brakes overheated at the last track day the anti-knock springs/clips pretty much melted so lost their shape so just binned them and thought nothing of it. Whilst James went out for the first session he lost brakes on about the 2nd or 3rd lap, managed to bring the car back in without any issue which was lucky. The dreaded rear left again!
Brake fluid all over the wheel, so off the wheel came and the brake pads were missing. Lucky someone found one of the pads and the retaining angle/pin near by so put the piston back in, put a new set of pads in, put the retaining angle back in with the pins. Gave the pads a rattle and sure enough the angle slipped out and pads could then be pulled out. Not sure if this was caused by not having the anti-knock springs or if the retaining angle was too loose? Anyone else have an issue like this.
James came up with a quick fix, turn the angle round to have the longer side against the pads, neither of us could then wiggle the pads loose so thought we'd give it ago. Sure enough no issues for the rest of the day with the pads. But at lunch time a couple new sets of retaining/fitting kits were ordered to fix it properly.
So the rest of the morning went without issue.
A little after lunch I went out for a session and started to hear the same noise as last time, I was sure it was another rear wheel bearing had gone so thought sod it I am going to finish my stint off and then check it. We tend to do about 20 minutes each then come in and swap over, works well for us both and is the sort of time we would be driving in the Trackday Championship so feel it is a good routine to get in to.
So came in, broke the news to James and sure enough rear bearing was knackered. We had bought a spare incase this happened in the future but wasn't expecting it to happen this soon. Pads were absolutely fine so the problem we thought was one issue last time must have been 2 separate issues but couldn't have helped. Getting good practice at changing rear pads and discs so car was back on the ground in no time and James went out for his session.
So another great day but still left us scratching our heads to what was up with the rear bearing. I know they are a weak point but having to change them every couple hours of running certainly isn't right. Bent stub axles? Stub axles worn down? It wasn't the spacer, that was the correct way round and nut torqued to 175Nm. Anyone got any other ideas?
Eitherway, with Donington coming up in a couple weeks time we didn't want to mess around with finding a replacement stub axles and seeing if that worked so splashed out and bought the PureMotorsport rear stub axle kit, uses the Mk3 discs which have a larger bearing. So this should be the end of the rear bearing issue.
So they should be here on Tuesday (20/7/21). So will show fitting them in the next post. Will be interesting to see how far out the alignment is once fitting the new stub axles. Perhaps that will explain why the Toe was so far out.
Here is a short clip of James running wide between sunny in and sunny out. Gopro didn't play ball as it kept overheating so frustratingly didn't record our fastest laps.
James managed a 1:42.247 and I managed a 1:43.284. I was happy that I managed to close the gap a little bit compared to last time and after a quick look at the lap time data I was losing 0.9 seconds in one braking point and corner so not too far off at least. I will do a proper post on the ECUMaster lap timing software when I have a proper look at it and get some decent onboards to link the times too. However this is the sort of detail it gives you. Can break the lap down by every straight and corner to compare laps.
Will be even better once ECUMaster release their new bit of software which allows you to add video to the analysis software, will be really cool. And will be great once we become more consistent and start dialling in the setup.
Just spent 2 hours reading this build thread,very very impressed,a lovely car,and a very talented man,i hope you get as much enjoyment from using the car,as you clearly have from building it,take some pride from comments like these,you deserve every credit mate,a special clio it certainly is,chris.x.
FrogJam Motorsport
ClioSport Trader
Thank you very much! Certainly makes it worth while when you get comments like that.
youre worth it pal,well done indeed,very special,thanks for sharing youre special car,Thankyou,be inspired.xx.
Chambers_RS
ClioSport Club Member
Clio 172 Cup&Leon K1
I’ve got the PMS stub axle kit. Lovely bit of kit 👌🏻 Sure it’ll cure your issue.
FrogJam Motorsport
ClioSport Trader
Good to hear! Should be arriving tomorrow.
FrogJam Motorsport
ClioSport Trader
Cheers Andy. Was nice to meet both of you. Will do a proper post at somepoint this week but yer we were surprised about the number of red flags and on track manners. We’ve only done Croft and they seem to be pretty strict about where you over take, but seemed a free for all, not sure if that was just today or typical of Donington, perhaps it’s just the nature of the layout.
Later in the afternoon when the track cleared up we were managing low 1:24s so really pleased for our first time at the track.
Great to see a nice group of clios there too!
M.C..
ClioSport Club Member
Nice to meet you both yesterday, your car looks and goes good.
I could'nt keep up with you I did try 😂
I have been on 2 Javelin days at Donington and both been badly run I think if it was a MSV day most would have been black flagged , half the time it felt like I was in a race.
Anyway the last hour or so was good as most of the idiots had gone home.
I could'nt keep up with you I did try 😂
I have been on 2 Javelin days at Donington and both been badly run I think if it was a MSV day most would have been black flagged , half the time it felt like I was in a race.
Anyway the last hour or so was good as most of the idiots had gone home.
FrogJam Motorsport
ClioSport Trader
Nice to meet you guys too. Yer that last 30 minutes was great wasn’t it.
Will be interesting to see what it’s like at the MSV ran day there in 2 weeks time. Hopefully ran better than yesterday.
Andy P
ClioSport Club Member
Clio 172, i20N
You both left me in the pits going backwards
. Although the last two runs after 4pm was by far the best but they both ended premature due to red flags and people's talent running out.That sums yesterday up perfectly. We have been there four times in the last four years and without doubt that was the worse one.
Apologies Fred and back to the topic of a brilliant build thread.
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FrogJam Motorsport
ClioSport Trader
Post Number 26.
This one should be a good one (possibly rather long).
A few topics to cover:
1. Pure Motorsport Billet Rear Stub Axle Kit.
As discussed in the last post we ordered the PMS stub axle kit as we were having problems with the rear left wheel bearing, assuming the original stub axle was bent but still have not been able to know this for certain. Anyway, kit arrived and as usual the stuff from Nick looks great.
Nice and easy to fit, direct replacement apart from if you have wheel speed sensors. Kept the same shims so had to then check the alignment but was bang on where we wanted. a little toe out and 3 degrees of camber.
The good news was that for the whole day we had no issues with the rear wheel bearings so was well worth the money! Still intrigued to find out what was causing the problem however, one to look at when I have nothing else better to do. So time will tell how long the new discs last but from our first day experience I would highly recommend.
2. New Protrack One wheels and Toyo R888R tyres.
Ordered the new Protrack One wheels a couple of weeks ago and was hoping they would make it before Donington but it was unlikely however they turned up on the Friday (were heading to Donington on the Sunday) so was a bit of a rush get them sorted. As you may or may not know, Protrack has just released the 15x7j wheels with either Et35 or Et15 offset. Ordered them from Ktec Racing and couldn't recommend them enough, Ayshe and Adam kept me up to date every couple of days with the progress of the order. Gave us a couple of days notice so we could also order the tyres (Demon Tweeks next day delivery to the rescue again). Gone for Toyo R888R tyres as they are the control tyre in the TDC and seem to be one of the best.
So wheels are Protrack One 15x7 et35 and tyres are Toyo R888R 205/50 R15. 2kg weight saving per wheel and tyre compared to NS-2R and Speedline Corse. Had to removed the 10mm stub axle spacer at the rear and the front fitment looked good with no spacer (Laguna upright also gives a little more track width). Think they look great and are something slightly different to the typical TD 1.2 wheels.
3. Trailer Storage Box
Not sure if anyone will be interested but thought I would add this. Was in the mood for another over engineered bit of fabrication so decided to make a storage box for the trailer instead of loading the car to the roof with kit for trackdays and in future race days. Got most of the kit we could possibly think of into 6 attached lid storage boxes which makes life much easier and most of the kit stays packed up and ready to go which saves time. So wanted a box to be able to store 6 boxes and then have a little room of items such as alignment poles and also have the ability to make a tyre rack in the future.
Couple of locking aero catches and some gas struts from SGS finished the box off perfectly. Worked out really well. Gave it a coat of Jotamastic 90, very similar to the stuff we coated the bottom of the Clio in. Still need to use some seam sealer in the corners and give it a second coat but ran out of time before the first trip to Donington. It uses the same 6 bolts the Brian James tyre rack uses to bolt it to the trailer. Worked great for the trip to Donington. Lot of work and not cheap with the current cost of steel but was worth it, was lovely not having a load of stuff rattling in the back of the car for the journey down. Will have a picture of the box on the trailer later.
This one should be a good one (possibly rather long).
A few topics to cover:
- Pure Motorsport Billet Rear Stub Axle Kit.
- New Protrack One wheels and Toyo R888R tyres.
- Trailer Storage Box
- Trip to Donington
- ECU Master ADU
- Things to sort before our next trip to Donington
1. Pure Motorsport Billet Rear Stub Axle Kit.
As discussed in the last post we ordered the PMS stub axle kit as we were having problems with the rear left wheel bearing, assuming the original stub axle was bent but still have not been able to know this for certain. Anyway, kit arrived and as usual the stuff from Nick looks great.
Nice and easy to fit, direct replacement apart from if you have wheel speed sensors. Kept the same shims so had to then check the alignment but was bang on where we wanted. a little toe out and 3 degrees of camber.
The good news was that for the whole day we had no issues with the rear wheel bearings so was well worth the money! Still intrigued to find out what was causing the problem however, one to look at when I have nothing else better to do. So time will tell how long the new discs last but from our first day experience I would highly recommend.
2. New Protrack One wheels and Toyo R888R tyres.
Ordered the new Protrack One wheels a couple of weeks ago and was hoping they would make it before Donington but it was unlikely however they turned up on the Friday (were heading to Donington on the Sunday) so was a bit of a rush get them sorted. As you may or may not know, Protrack has just released the 15x7j wheels with either Et35 or Et15 offset. Ordered them from Ktec Racing and couldn't recommend them enough, Ayshe and Adam kept me up to date every couple of days with the progress of the order. Gave us a couple of days notice so we could also order the tyres (Demon Tweeks next day delivery to the rescue again). Gone for Toyo R888R tyres as they are the control tyre in the TDC and seem to be one of the best.
So wheels are Protrack One 15x7 et35 and tyres are Toyo R888R 205/50 R15. 2kg weight saving per wheel and tyre compared to NS-2R and Speedline Corse. Had to removed the 10mm stub axle spacer at the rear and the front fitment looked good with no spacer (Laguna upright also gives a little more track width). Think they look great and are something slightly different to the typical TD 1.2 wheels.
3. Trailer Storage Box
Not sure if anyone will be interested but thought I would add this. Was in the mood for another over engineered bit of fabrication so decided to make a storage box for the trailer instead of loading the car to the roof with kit for trackdays and in future race days. Got most of the kit we could possibly think of into 6 attached lid storage boxes which makes life much easier and most of the kit stays packed up and ready to go which saves time. So wanted a box to be able to store 6 boxes and then have a little room of items such as alignment poles and also have the ability to make a tyre rack in the future.
Couple of locking aero catches and some gas struts from SGS finished the box off perfectly. Worked out really well. Gave it a coat of Jotamastic 90, very similar to the stuff we coated the bottom of the Clio in. Still need to use some seam sealer in the corners and give it a second coat but ran out of time before the first trip to Donington. It uses the same 6 bolts the Brian James tyre rack uses to bolt it to the trailer. Worked great for the trip to Donington. Lot of work and not cheap with the current cost of steel but was worth it, was lovely not having a load of stuff rattling in the back of the car for the journey down. Will have a picture of the box on the trailer later.
FrogJam Motorsport
ClioSport Trader
Post number 26 continued.
4. Trip to Donington
So after having the week off work getting the car ready and building the box it was time to head to Donington, both of us were looking forward to this one. We had only ever been to Croft before so first time at a new track in the Clio and high expectation of the Clio with sorting a few problems out.
Long story short it was a brilliant day! By far the best day we've had with the Clio. The track was epic and the Clio ran faultlessly all day. I (Fred) can say it was probably the best day I've ever had, James being married and with kids probably can't/shouldn't say the same.
We both loved the track, not sure if it was just because it was new and we have been to croft a fair bit but it seemed like a much better track than Croft, just a pain its an extra 2 hours further south.
Found the track pretty busy for most of the day and there were lots of stoppages for red flags which probably didn't help. No where near as strict with overtaking safety than Croft. People were overtaking in every corner they could, flashing to be let past, not letting you past even though you were much quicker, so this was a bit of a shock at the start but just had to roll with it. Ended up knowing which cars were going to come past no matter where you were and knew which cars you had to dive up the inside of a corner to get past. Towards the end of the day the main Javelin bloke was waving the blue flag at people to try and sort it out but it was rather chaotic as previous discuss in the thread by @Andy P and @M.C..
Ended up doing 135 laps (270 miles) which was great to get some good miles on the car to test it out.
I managed a 1:24.285 and James did a 1:24.638. Really please with the times and good that we were so close to each other. As you can see from the video and the delta I basically made up the 0.3 seconds in the final chicane by cheating and cutting it a fair bit. But looking at the TDC qualifying laps this seems to be allowed so best practice cheating. New R888R tyres also felt much better than the NS-2Rs which we sort of expected.
Just for interest we went through 125 litres of fuel for the 270 miles, so averaged 9.7mpg. Seems pretty low, anyone have any other experience on fuel usage?
Here are the fastest lap videos but also our final sessions where both out fastest laps came from.
5. ECUMaster ADU Display
The ECUMaster GPS had been dropping out which meant the lap timing features wasn't working correctly but Greg at RRR Engineering had a look at the logs and suggested there were some CAN messages getting mixed up and sure enough there was, so sorted this out and the GPS didn't drop out at all at home so was hoping the lap time delta function was going to work.
Sure enough it worked perfectly! Was really useful whilst learning the track to see what was fast and what wasn't. Both found it really useful having the live delta. So going to be making the delta a little clearer for the next trackday. Really adds to the experience of driving on track.
6. Things to sort/change for the next trip to Donington
Bit of a list of things we are going to sort or change:
One more thing to add!
There is a fairly new website which is a Trackday social media platform called Track Limit. It has all the UK trackways on there and allows people to add photos from the event, videos, lap times, comment on days, pictures, video, see who is going to the track days and lots more. And seems like lots more features are being added.
https://www.tracklimit.co.uk/event/donington-park-2021-08-02
This is the link to the day we attended at Donington. It has all our photos on there as well as all the Javelin photos taken on the day. Like I said pretty new but certainly could be a fantastic platform once more people join so recommend people go and have a look and get an account setup.
Clio parked up after the session had finished and then packed up on the trailer ready to head home.
Not long until the next day at Donington, keeping our fingers crossed for another successful day!
4. Trip to Donington
So after having the week off work getting the car ready and building the box it was time to head to Donington, both of us were looking forward to this one. We had only ever been to Croft before so first time at a new track in the Clio and high expectation of the Clio with sorting a few problems out.
Long story short it was a brilliant day! By far the best day we've had with the Clio. The track was epic and the Clio ran faultlessly all day. I (Fred) can say it was probably the best day I've ever had, James being married and with kids probably can't/shouldn't say the same.
We both loved the track, not sure if it was just because it was new and we have been to croft a fair bit but it seemed like a much better track than Croft, just a pain its an extra 2 hours further south.
Found the track pretty busy for most of the day and there were lots of stoppages for red flags which probably didn't help. No where near as strict with overtaking safety than Croft. People were overtaking in every corner they could, flashing to be let past, not letting you past even though you were much quicker, so this was a bit of a shock at the start but just had to roll with it. Ended up knowing which cars were going to come past no matter where you were and knew which cars you had to dive up the inside of a corner to get past. Towards the end of the day the main Javelin bloke was waving the blue flag at people to try and sort it out but it was rather chaotic as previous discuss in the thread by @Andy P and @M.C..
Ended up doing 135 laps (270 miles) which was great to get some good miles on the car to test it out.
I managed a 1:24.285 and James did a 1:24.638. Really please with the times and good that we were so close to each other. As you can see from the video and the delta I basically made up the 0.3 seconds in the final chicane by cheating and cutting it a fair bit. But looking at the TDC qualifying laps this seems to be allowed so best practice cheating. New R888R tyres also felt much better than the NS-2Rs which we sort of expected.
Just for interest we went through 125 litres of fuel for the 270 miles, so averaged 9.7mpg. Seems pretty low, anyone have any other experience on fuel usage?
Here are the fastest lap videos but also our final sessions where both out fastest laps came from.
5. ECUMaster ADU Display
The ECUMaster GPS had been dropping out which meant the lap timing features wasn't working correctly but Greg at RRR Engineering had a look at the logs and suggested there were some CAN messages getting mixed up and sure enough there was, so sorted this out and the GPS didn't drop out at all at home so was hoping the lap time delta function was going to work.
Sure enough it worked perfectly! Was really useful whilst learning the track to see what was fast and what wasn't. Both found it really useful having the live delta. So going to be making the delta a little clearer for the next trackday. Really adds to the experience of driving on track.
6. Things to sort/change for the next trip to Donington
Bit of a list of things we are going to sort or change:
- Front pads (DS2500) are pretty much done (560 miles) so changing these out for a set of CL RC8s.
- Check clearance/rubbing on front right wheel, getting a noise through Craners.
- Make lap delta timer larger.
- Coat the new wheels to make them easier to clean in the future.
- Look at increasing front camber - outside of the tyre wearing quicker than the inside on the LHS wheel and feel turn in could be a little better.
- Check oil levels - Engine seems to be using quite a lot of oil so assuming a winter rebuild is going to be needed.
One more thing to add!
There is a fairly new website which is a Trackday social media platform called Track Limit. It has all the UK trackways on there and allows people to add photos from the event, videos, lap times, comment on days, pictures, video, see who is going to the track days and lots more. And seems like lots more features are being added.
https://www.tracklimit.co.uk/event/donington-park-2021-08-02
This is the link to the day we attended at Donington. It has all our photos on there as well as all the Javelin photos taken on the day. Like I said pretty new but certainly could be a fantastic platform once more people join so recommend people go and have a look and get an account setup.
Clio parked up after the session had finished and then packed up on the trailer ready to head home.
Not long until the next day at Donington, keeping our fingers crossed for another successful day!
M.C..
ClioSport Club Member
Good videos,
just for reference I did 140 miles and used about 40-50l of fuel trip computer showed 20mpg in reality think it works out to around 15mpg
just for reference I did 140 miles and used about 40-50l of fuel trip computer showed 20mpg in reality think it works out to around 15mpg
FrogJam Motorsport
ClioSport Trader
Post number 27.
Just a short one with an update from our second trip to Donington. Another good day, no problems with the car but lots of traffic. Didn’t beat our times from a couple weeks before but got within a few tenths. 300 more miles on the car without issues which is great.
Even managed to grab a free garage as we got there early after camping near by.
I’ve uploaded a lot of videos to our channel so go and take a look but here are some of the videos from the day.
We then had 4 weeks until Croft (22/9/21), we had picked up a new gearbox from @NorthloopCup with a gripper diff so need to put that in and we also decided to try some sort of oil cooler so next update will include them. Will try and do the update before Croft on Wednesday. Both looking forward to trying the LSD!
Just a short one with an update from our second trip to Donington. Another good day, no problems with the car but lots of traffic. Didn’t beat our times from a couple weeks before but got within a few tenths. 300 more miles on the car without issues which is great.
Even managed to grab a free garage as we got there early after camping near by.
I’ve uploaded a lot of videos to our channel so go and take a look but here are some of the videos from the day.
We then had 4 weeks until Croft (22/9/21), we had picked up a new gearbox from @NorthloopCup with a gripper diff so need to put that in and we also decided to try some sort of oil cooler so next update will include them. Will try and do the update before Croft on Wednesday. Both looking forward to trying the LSD!
FrogJam Motorsport
ClioSport Trader
Thank you!
Hoping it’s just the start of something. Lots of winter upgrade plans which I will be sharing in the near future.
FrogJam Motorsport
ClioSport Trader
Post number 28.
This one is about the work we have done in the last 4 weeks to bring the thread up to date before our trip to Croft tomorrow.
Had a few jobs to do between track days which then led to a couple of problems.
first up is the new gearbox install. Went for the gripper diff with the 4.54 final drive set up for circuit racing (120nm preload, can’t remember the ramp angles). Seems like the only down side is the need to service them every year so will be sending it back down to Mark every winter.
Before completing removing the engine decided to do a compression test. Surprisingly good for an engine with 110k miles of it. All cylinders very close to each other.
With the simplified engine bay (no pas, no air con, no battery etc) its rather easy just to pull the whole engine and gearbox out, couple hour job if you’re not rushing.
And the old gearbox off. This was actually a 089 box, so had the long final drive so will be really noticing the 4.54 drive in the new box.
Engine and new gearbox then back in. Engine balance plate makes it pretty easy and feeling rather smug about the small lifting hole I added to the custom coil pack relocating bracket.
Then the first problem, LHS driveshaft was too long. Was tight up against the gripper cv joint cup so had two options shorten the current shaft or find another. Both the original shaft and J&R shafts were the same length (655mm) so ended up ordering a phase 1 GKN shaft which is 640mm (actually measures 645 in reality) which seems to fit perfectly. So the trip to Croft will see if this one works or not. If it does another one will be being ordered as a spare.
Will also take the current one to CPS Drivelink which is local to be cut down, pretty sure cutting and joining it and only losing 10mm with the friction welding will be possibly.
The next over the top item we bought was a Mocal Laminova oil cooler, meant to be much more efficient than the radiator oil coolers and all seems to make much more sense to us so thought it was worth the extra couple hundred quid. Still up for debate whether I prefer driving the Clio or buying new shiny parts, close run thing I would say.
Seemed to line up pretty well with the mounting face to the engine/gearbox so made a bracket to mount the cooler direct to the engine, whether this is the best way to do it I don’t know yet but it certainly seemed the neatest.
I did tidy the bracket up and gave it a couple coats of paint before putting it back on. Time will tell if we need to add a half restrictor in there but safer to run without one for a day and see how we get on. Coolant runs pretty constant between 71-74 so seems like we have a bit of room to play with compared to the oil at above 120.
This one is about the work we have done in the last 4 weeks to bring the thread up to date before our trip to Croft tomorrow.
Had a few jobs to do between track days which then led to a couple of problems.
first up is the new gearbox install. Went for the gripper diff with the 4.54 final drive set up for circuit racing (120nm preload, can’t remember the ramp angles). Seems like the only down side is the need to service them every year so will be sending it back down to Mark every winter.
Before completing removing the engine decided to do a compression test. Surprisingly good for an engine with 110k miles of it. All cylinders very close to each other.
With the simplified engine bay (no pas, no air con, no battery etc) its rather easy just to pull the whole engine and gearbox out, couple hour job if you’re not rushing.
And the old gearbox off. This was actually a 089 box, so had the long final drive so will be really noticing the 4.54 drive in the new box.
Engine and new gearbox then back in. Engine balance plate makes it pretty easy and feeling rather smug about the small lifting hole I added to the custom coil pack relocating bracket.
Then the first problem, LHS driveshaft was too long. Was tight up against the gripper cv joint cup so had two options shorten the current shaft or find another. Both the original shaft and J&R shafts were the same length (655mm) so ended up ordering a phase 1 GKN shaft which is 640mm (actually measures 645 in reality) which seems to fit perfectly. So the trip to Croft will see if this one works or not. If it does another one will be being ordered as a spare.
Will also take the current one to CPS Drivelink which is local to be cut down, pretty sure cutting and joining it and only losing 10mm with the friction welding will be possibly.
The next over the top item we bought was a Mocal Laminova oil cooler, meant to be much more efficient than the radiator oil coolers and all seems to make much more sense to us so thought it was worth the extra couple hundred quid. Still up for debate whether I prefer driving the Clio or buying new shiny parts, close run thing I would say.
Seemed to line up pretty well with the mounting face to the engine/gearbox so made a bracket to mount the cooler direct to the engine, whether this is the best way to do it I don’t know yet but it certainly seemed the neatest.
I did tidy the bracket up and gave it a couple coats of paint before putting it back on. Time will tell if we need to add a half restrictor in there but safer to run without one for a day and see how we get on. Coolant runs pretty constant between 71-74 so seems like we have a bit of room to play with compared to the oil at above 120.
FrogJam Motorsport
ClioSport Trader
Post number 28 continued.
So time to fire up again and also run into the second problem. Fired up no bother but then would cut out after 5 seconds or so after not being able to idle. This is what it sounded like.
Went right round the doors with this one, tried everything. Checked injectors, spark plugs, sensors, fuel pump etc, all pretty easy to do with the ECUMaster kit I have to say. ECU was showing a trigger error so checked the flywheel and cleaned the sensor, made no difference so got a new sensor ordered. But then decided to disconnect the alternator batter cable to see if that made any difference and sure enough car fired up and was idling perfectly. After checking the voltage logs back the voltage was rather erratic not staying around 14.5v. Assuming the fluctuating voltage was throwing the timing, injectors and spark off. So a refurbed alternator was ordered (mistake), was a Bosch one so assumed it was going to be decent. Was 65 quid off eBay.
Car fired up and ran perfectly but no voltage from the alternator. This really confused me to what was going wrong now but came to the conclusion it couldn’t be anything else apart from the alternator so then ordered a brand new one from Renault Parts Direct who got it to us the next day on a Saturday. At this point we were happy to chuck some money at it to get it sorted so 190 pounds later we had the new one. Sure enough swapped the alternator for the second time and it worked perfectly. Car running well and have a voltage at a constant 14.5v. Whether the Bosch one was just a one off failure I don’t know but I wish we went straight for the new Renault one (Valero).
So now car running happily and could finally get it up to temperature get the coolant bled and check for leaks after fitting the mocal laminova oil cooler.
Last thing to do was then change the rear pads out as they didn’t have anything left on them. This was 2 full days of use at Donington, 600 miles total.
Now the car and kit is all packed up and ready for our trip to Croft on Wednesday. Looking forward to feeling the difference with the diff.
So time to fire up again and also run into the second problem. Fired up no bother but then would cut out after 5 seconds or so after not being able to idle. This is what it sounded like.
Went right round the doors with this one, tried everything. Checked injectors, spark plugs, sensors, fuel pump etc, all pretty easy to do with the ECUMaster kit I have to say. ECU was showing a trigger error so checked the flywheel and cleaned the sensor, made no difference so got a new sensor ordered. But then decided to disconnect the alternator batter cable to see if that made any difference and sure enough car fired up and was idling perfectly. After checking the voltage logs back the voltage was rather erratic not staying around 14.5v. Assuming the fluctuating voltage was throwing the timing, injectors and spark off. So a refurbed alternator was ordered (mistake), was a Bosch one so assumed it was going to be decent. Was 65 quid off eBay.
So now car running happily and could finally get it up to temperature get the coolant bled and check for leaks after fitting the mocal laminova oil cooler.
Last thing to do was then change the rear pads out as they didn’t have anything left on them. This was 2 full days of use at Donington, 600 miles total.
Now the car and kit is all packed up and ready for our trip to Croft on Wednesday. Looking forward to feeling the difference with the diff.
That looks really tidy with the oil cooler, nicely in line with the existing coolant route, well done. 👍
Mr Underhill
ClioSport Club Member
You guys go through some rear pads. I think I’ve had my DS2500 for 3 years now, still a few trackdays in them
I'm still on the original set that came with the car?
