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Kenny's Kup
- Thread starter Kenny.s
- Start date
This has to be my favourite Clio build
Estimated time until the whole thing is finished?
Cheers, no idea when it's going to be finished to be honest, done when it's done, hopefully get it out before too much of next season has passed but not going to rush it then end up having to revisit stuff.
How'd you mean cam belt side? I'd have said this one was on the cambelt side? but to answer on numbers, sticking with 4.
Know what you mean now, dont think it'll be an issue, I did briefly look at trying to put something back there but it would be a total nightmare to get to.
The cup racers only had 3 mounts, since I've got an extra one on the box that should help spread the load out a bit more evenly, time will tell!
The cup racers only had 3 mounts, since I've got an extra one on the box that should help spread the load out a bit more evenly, time will tell!
Wasn't planning to run the 2-piece shafts so those holes are free but getting something useable onto them and then onto the subframe isn't easy.
There's still another tube to go onto that O/S mount to triangulate it, as it is just now I wouldnt be comfortable with the potential sideways flex in it.
Those pictures might not show things particularly well, granted the mount is at the front of the block but when you look at the engine and box as a complete unit, across the 4 mounts I doubt it's going to move much if at all.
As mentioned, the cup racers have one mount on the nearside under the alternator, pics courtesy of Ian-Speedy
As for engine spec, nothing fancy for now, ARP rod bolts, thottle bodies and map it, might consider cams but will see how the budget looks nearer the time.
There's still another tube to go onto that O/S mount to triangulate it, as it is just now I wouldnt be comfortable with the potential sideways flex in it.
Those pictures might not show things particularly well, granted the mount is at the front of the block but when you look at the engine and box as a complete unit, across the 4 mounts I doubt it's going to move much if at all.
As mentioned, the cup racers have one mount on the nearside under the alternator, pics courtesy of Ian-Speedy
As for engine spec, nothing fancy for now, ARP rod bolts, thottle bodies and map it, might consider cams but will see how the budget looks nearer the time.
Yeah pretty much, although it'll still see a bit of torque.
I was going to get my mate to come up and do these but I'll never get better at Tig if I keep asking him to do things for me, I tried my best to get the prep and fit up as good as I could and did a root and cap on all the pieces. Thicker material is a lot easier and more forgiving, actually quite happy with the way most of them came out. But if anything fails I've only got my self to blame!
As far as I know the racers only have 3 mounts.
quick flick through this thread while im in the office and this is fantastic mate i will be following from now on...you are and artist and a gifted engineer keep up the good work
Thanks mate, hope it wasn't distracting you from your work though! lol I'm a rig sparky by trade, just picked up this sort of stuff as I go.
Looks good, what have you done with the others?
Think I'm going to add an extra bit to the one I've made, probably strong enough but for all the time it'll take to add an extra piece in. As I'm sure you know once you make the bushes stiffer the mounting points need to be stronger as more load is transmitted through them.
Think I'm going to add an extra bit to the one I've made, probably strong enough but for all the time it'll take to add an extra piece in. As I'm sure you know once you make the bushes stiffer the mounting points need to be stronger as more load is transmitted through them.
Others are by Vibra Technology (you can see them at K-Tec Racing), while I have some ideas how to make my own too...
For engine build my advice is:
- ARP head studs
- Athena Racing head gasket (very good - multilayer, exact 0.83 bore, 0.85 thikness)
- Kent Cams Competition Cam Belt (high temp resistance, rigid tooth, reinforced)
- ACL Race Series rod bearings (up to 10000 RPM proven)
You think the ARP head studs are very important? Didn't realise you can get uprated cam belts
Cheers for the info
For the initial engine spec I'm not sure how far I want to go with it, rod bolts are a defo but not sure if ill put Cams in it or not.
There's probably more benefit, for me at least, getting the car finished and get some seat time in it before spending money on a proper engine.
I've got a long term plan for the engine, that to the best of my knowledge hasnt been done before with the f4r, not going to say any more about it just now, if someone else does it meantime, fair doos
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I've got a long term plan for the engine, that to the best of my knowledge hasnt been done before with the f4r, not going to say any more about it just now, if someone else does it meantime, fair doos
You can't say that and not tell us lol
Tubbed front wheel arches
I'd already chopped out the original inner wing so no pics of that but then you all know what they look like anyway.
Marked up and ready to be cut out
I left a 10mm lip and folded this up to help retain some strength in the original strut tower and make it easier to weld the new section of wheel arch to
Section of mudguard cut to size, offered up and clamped in position
Arch tacked in position, infill section cut from 1.2mm sheet, partially welded in position
Just need to cut another bit of 1.2mm sheet to bridge the gap, finish welding it and then smooth some of the welds down and jobs a goodun
Then it's onto the other side, could be fun chopping out the engine mount bracket! might get onto that tomorrow
I'd already chopped out the original inner wing so no pics of that but then you all know what they look like anyway.
Marked up and ready to be cut out
I left a 10mm lip and folded this up to help retain some strength in the original strut tower and make it easier to weld the new section of wheel arch to
Section of mudguard cut to size, offered up and clamped in position
Arch tacked in position, infill section cut from 1.2mm sheet, partially welded in position
Just need to cut another bit of 1.2mm sheet to bridge the gap, finish welding it and then smooth some of the welds down and jobs a goodun
Then it's onto the other side, could be fun chopping out the engine mount bracket! might get onto that tomorrow
Kenny stop doing this to me!! You keep making me want to start my shell from scratch lol! Cracking work as ever can't wait to see this car finished
lol, no need to start from scratch, you've got some invaluable seat time in yours now, this stuff is relatively easy to do, just metal and time.
Anytime you want to work on an MR2 give me a shout?
Dont think I've ever sat in an MR2 yet alone worked on one! but I appreciate the comment none the less
Tis true! You missed out skill though
As usual I had a few other things to be getting on with today which resulted in me losing the best part of the morning but still managed to make a some progress
Cut out a bit of 1.2mm sheet and bridged the gap on the inner wing,
A wee bit of filler along the join should tidy it up, some seam sealer around the edges,
I offered up a std 16 wheel/tyre and the car would almost be on the ground by the time the tyre fouls on the inner arch so I recon that should be sufficient clearance
I then made up some bits for the upper gearbox mount, will finish welding this tomorrow
Cut out a bit of 1.2mm sheet and bridged the gap on the inner wing,
A wee bit of filler along the join should tidy it up, some seam sealer around the edges,
I offered up a std 16 wheel/tyre and the car would almost be on the ground by the time the tyre fouls on the inner arch so I recon that should be sufficient clearance
I then made up some bits for the upper gearbox mount, will finish welding this tomorrow
shiftspark
ClioSport Club Member
R53 GR86
Thats excellent fabrication ! out of interest do you use gas or gasless mig ?
Yeah should do, I could have gone higher but as I mentioned holding a wheel up in the arch, the subframe would almost be on the ground when the tyre touches the inner arch. If I draw the hubs forward by tweaking the bolt holes for the bottom ball joint that'll bring the tyre into the area with most clearance. If needs be I can make a bit more room at the back, the drain hole from the old bulkhead area being the most pronounced bit.
Nafoff
ClioSport Club Member
are you going to loose any of the strut vertical visible here?
i was just wondering if that would effect clearance, and if so would this compromise strength...
Assume your meaning the back of it, or the bit on the right as you look at it in that picture?
Most of the load on that part of the tower is in a vertical plane so removing those bits probably isnt going to hurt them too much, having said that I wasnt going to touch the back one unless I need to, already chopped most of the front one out as you can see from the earlier pictures but then i've added quite a lot of metal back in. I was quite surprised just how solid the new inner wing is, the rolled edge of the mudguard makes for a pretty solid structure once it's welded in.
Also the X bracing and the cage tie ins are going to greatly increase the strength of the towers.
Most of the load on that part of the tower is in a vertical plane so removing those bits probably isnt going to hurt them too much, having said that I wasnt going to touch the back one unless I need to, already chopped most of the front one out as you can see from the earlier pictures but then i've added quite a lot of metal back in. I was quite surprised just how solid the new inner wing is, the rolled edge of the mudguard makes for a pretty solid structure once it's welded in.
Also the X bracing and the cage tie ins are going to greatly increase the strength of the towers.
Nafoff
ClioSport Club Member
nope not the back of it,
i was meaning the bit on the left and the right (basically the 2 bits interrupting the TUB) if you get me
Aye, think we were talking about the same thing, the front one has been cut back
No chance the wheel is going to touch that
The rib on the right/back shouldn't be an issue, picture the scenario, turning hard right so suspension loaded up on front left corner, the leading edge of the tyre will be under the new arch, the trailing edge will be away from that vertical rib. Turning left the tyre will be in closer to that rib when looking at it horizontally but vertically should be clear as that corner should be sitting a bit higher as it wont be under the same load, also, running a decent amount of castor will help tip the wheel away from that back rib when turning left..... if any of that makes sense lol
No chance the wheel is going to touch that
The rib on the right/back shouldn't be an issue, picture the scenario, turning hard right so suspension loaded up on front left corner, the leading edge of the tyre will be under the new arch, the trailing edge will be away from that vertical rib. Turning left the tyre will be in closer to that rib when looking at it horizontally but vertically should be clear as that corner should be sitting a bit higher as it wont be under the same load, also, running a decent amount of castor will help tip the wheel away from that back rib when turning left..... if any of that makes sense lol
TrackCar & F30 330d
Kenny your my Hero!!
By far the most modified Clio chassis i have ever seen!!
When you started i just thought you were gona chop a few bracket out and put a cage in it. Your putting us all to shame lol
Keep up the good work
By far the most modified Clio chassis i have ever seen!!
When you started i just thought you were gona chop a few bracket out and put a cage in it. Your putting us all to shame lol
Keep up the good work
Cheers mate, what can you say to that, i'm glad you like it, yours was one of the first project threads I read from start to finish so a lot of my inspiration to build one of these cars is down to you!
Did a bit more on it today, finished welding the bracket for the upper gearbox mounting then i was time to start on the o/s inner wing
Last time it'll ever look like this
I manged to drill out some of the spot welds but there was so much seam sealer it was almost impossible to find them so in the end I decided to stop faffing about and got the air saw out!
Not really designed for cutting stuff this thick but about 1.5hrs and several blades later
No going back now lol!
Hopefully get some more done tomorrow, i got it all marked up and ready to be trimmed back to match the other side but it was getting a bit late to be making a racket, airsaw isn't the quietest tool in the world!
Did a bit more on it today, finished welding the bracket for the upper gearbox mounting then i was time to start on the o/s inner wing
Last time it'll ever look like this
I manged to drill out some of the spot welds but there was so much seam sealer it was almost impossible to find them so in the end I decided to stop faffing about and got the air saw out!
Not really designed for cutting stuff this thick but about 1.5hrs and several blades later
No going back now lol!
Hopefully get some more done tomorrow, i got it all marked up and ready to be trimmed back to match the other side but it was getting a bit late to be making a racket, airsaw isn't the quietest tool in the world!
Nothing exciting on the engine front for now, thottle bodies, rod bolts and maybe cams but for the sake of getting the thing up and running I'm not too bothered just now, would rather get some seat time it before deciding what to do with the engine.
Made some more progress on the o/s inner wing today, also discovered how different this side of the car is to the n/s.
Some of you may already know this but it was news to me that the chassis leg on the o/s is about 12-15mm further outboard when measured at the strut tower/crank pulley area than the n/s.
I had noticed the leg was narrowed around the crank pulley for clearance but I had not previously realised that the whole thing is also further outboard, hence the "dent" in the leg inline with where the crank pulley is to allow more clearance for the wheel on full left hand lock. Renault obviously had to do a fair bit of shoehorning to get the F4R into this chassis.
Anyway, todays efforts
The other half of the mudguard cut down to size and tacked in
Infill sections made and welded in
Not got long before i'm due back offshore but hopefully tomorrow i'll get the o/s engine mount finished, put the engine back in and then weld the bracket onto the chassis leg.
Then it'll be time to have a clear up and put a sheet over it for another 2 weeks
Some of you may already know this but it was news to me that the chassis leg on the o/s is about 12-15mm further outboard when measured at the strut tower/crank pulley area than the n/s.
I had noticed the leg was narrowed around the crank pulley for clearance but I had not previously realised that the whole thing is also further outboard, hence the "dent" in the leg inline with where the crank pulley is to allow more clearance for the wheel on full left hand lock. Renault obviously had to do a fair bit of shoehorning to get the F4R into this chassis.
Anyway, todays efforts
The other half of the mudguard cut down to size and tacked in
Infill sections made and welded in
Not got long before i'm due back offshore but hopefully tomorrow i'll get the o/s engine mount finished, put the engine back in and then weld the bracket onto the chassis leg.
Then it'll be time to have a clear up and put a sheet over it for another 2 weeks
That's looking fantastic mate keep up the good work.
I had a similar spec engine to what your thinking, stock balanced bottom end with ARP bolts, cleaned up head and cams, Itbs and it went really well in a ff 172 so in a stripped out track car it'll be more than enough IMO.
But like you said before get it together and get some time behind the wheel and enjoy it
I had a similar spec engine to what your thinking, stock balanced bottom end with ARP bolts, cleaned up head and cams, Itbs and it went really well in a ff 172 so in a stripped out track car it'll be more than enough IMO.
But like you said before get it together and get some time behind the wheel and enjoy it
182, 6r GTi
i was wondering why no1 had done this before (that ive seen anyway) looks brilliant tubed arches going to give you some decent clearance, will be keeping an eye on this
I was supposed to be at work by now but with all the EC225's still grounded the backlog of fights is getting bigger by the day. Was due out on Wednesday, which was put back until this morning, I was half way to Aberdeen when they phoned and told me to turn round, earliest I'm going is now Saturday.
With that I headed back to the workshop and got on with a few wee jobs.
Did most of this on Monday and Tuesday I think, didnt stop to take many pictures though
Added a 4th pick up point to the main engine mount
Then finished off the inner wing and made up the bracket for the engine mounting
I still need to smooth out the weld lines and seal up the seams etc, just wanted to get some etch primer on for now to stop any surface rust setting in
Plenty of room around the pulleys now, if there was ever the need to adjust valve timing it would be pretty easy to do in the car. Ill also need to make a start on the cam position sensor, again lots of options on where this can go now.
Overall pretty happy with it, the engine & box will still "give" a tiny amount (tested with the aid of a large lever!) so it's not completely solid, hopefully enough to damp out the worst of the vibrations. Time will tell how good my welding is lol
With that I headed back to the workshop and got on with a few wee jobs.
Did most of this on Monday and Tuesday I think, didnt stop to take many pictures though
Added a 4th pick up point to the main engine mount
Then finished off the inner wing and made up the bracket for the engine mounting
I still need to smooth out the weld lines and seal up the seams etc, just wanted to get some etch primer on for now to stop any surface rust setting in
Plenty of room around the pulleys now, if there was ever the need to adjust valve timing it would be pretty easy to do in the car. Ill also need to make a start on the cam position sensor, again lots of options on where this can go now.
Overall pretty happy with it, the engine & box will still "give" a tiny amount (tested with the aid of a large lever!) so it's not completely solid, hopefully enough to damp out the worst of the vibrations. Time will tell how good my welding is lol
