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Mk1 F4R/172'd Track Car Project [Year 3 - Engine and Chassis Rebuild]
iimushroomzii
Toilet roll king
Transit Connect.
Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project
Not having much luck with this fella, Hope you get it sorted for friday!
Not having much luck with this fella, Hope you get it sorted for friday!
ValverInBits
Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project
which dizzy cap and rotor are you using, do you know if they are any good?
Also did you use the haynes manual method of filling the tappets with oil before fitting the head? Although that causes noisy valve train and poor valve lift it won't cause it not to fire.
Compression test would be my next step.
which dizzy cap and rotor are you using, do you know if they are any good?
Also did you use the haynes manual method of filling the tappets with oil before fitting the head? Although that causes noisy valve train and poor valve lift it won't cause it not to fire.
Compression test would be my next step.
Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project
dizzy cap and rotor are off the valver engine, were all good. Ive got a new dizzy cap and rotor too, made no difference.
no I didnt use the haynes manual of filling the tappets, was told it would be ok once fitted and turned over a few times/ran for a few minutes.....
aye Im going to compression test it in the morning, and go from there.
Ive used valver pullies on the cams, I was told they are the same as williams pullies, but im starting to think this could not be the case.....not heard any nocking or anything, so the timing cant be out, well it could be, just 180 degrees, which could mean a williams pulley is 180 degrees different to a valver one?
dizzy cap and rotor are off the valver engine, were all good. Ive got a new dizzy cap and rotor too, made no difference.
no I didnt use the haynes manual of filling the tappets, was told it would be ok once fitted and turned over a few times/ran for a few minutes.....
aye Im going to compression test it in the morning, and go from there.
Ive used valver pullies on the cams, I was told they are the same as williams pullies, but im starting to think this could not be the case.....not heard any nocking or anything, so the timing cant be out, well it could be, just 180 degrees, which could mean a williams pulley is 180 degrees different to a valver one?
ValverInBits
Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project
tappets won't cause you any many problems, but it needs a good hour before they fill properly. I fitted a valver engine that had been standing for quite a while and it took about 1 hours running before the tappets filled.
Just looked through my part numbers PDF, F7P and F7R both use the same pulleys. AND the pulleys are identical for inlet and exhaust. Part number 77 00 743 967.
As expected, both inlet and exhaust Cams are different part numbers, so it could be a difference between the cams but tbh I doubt it.
So the injectors have been carried over yeah? did you plug in the little cold start injector under the manifold?
There must be something else, Unless your not getting any compression out of the new head?
tappets won't cause you any many problems, but it needs a good hour before they fill properly. I fitted a valver engine that had been standing for quite a while and it took about 1 hours running before the tappets filled.
Just looked through my part numbers PDF, F7P and F7R both use the same pulleys. AND the pulleys are identical for inlet and exhaust. Part number 77 00 743 967.
As expected, both inlet and exhaust Cams are different part numbers, so it could be a difference between the cams but tbh I doubt it.
So the injectors have been carried over yeah? did you plug in the little cold start injector under the manifold?
There must be something else, Unless your not getting any compression out of the new head?
TVR Cerbera
Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project
Sounds to me like your timing is out. Double check that the rotor arm is pointing at no1 spark lead and no1 cylinder is near tdc. I know you said you checked the timing and leads, but may have something to do with willy cams and valver pulleys / dizzy. IIRC my old valver did a similar thing with the leads round the wrong way. I'd check the dizzy to start with and go from there
Sounds to me like your timing is out. Double check that the rotor arm is pointing at no1 spark lead and no1 cylinder is near tdc. I know you said you checked the timing and leads, but may have something to do with willy cams and valver pulleys / dizzy. IIRC my old valver did a similar thing with the leads round the wrong way. I'd check the dizzy to start with and go from there
TVR Cerbera
Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project
Are the dizzy's the same too? could the keyways of the cams be different? It would fire, but run crap if there was a compression problem, unless it was zero compression!
Are the dizzy's the same too? could the keyways of the cams be different? It would fire, but run crap if there was a compression problem, unless it was zero compression!
Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project
will check compression first thing tommorow
got a new dizzy cap to try, and a couple of sets of leads...
will double check the cold start injector is connected
the rotor is pointed at cylinder one when TDC, checked that before
if the pulleys are the same throughout, it cant be the timing, williams head with williams cams and valves, it cant be possible to fit them wrong if the marks line up surely
will check compression first thing tommorow
got a new dizzy cap to try, and a couple of sets of leads...
will double check the cold start injector is connected
the rotor is pointed at cylinder one when TDC, checked that before
if the pulleys are the same throughout, it cant be the timing, williams head with williams cams and valves, it cant be possible to fit them wrong if the marks line up surely
TVR Cerbera
Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project
are the keyways the same in relation to the lobes on both willy and valver cams?will check compression first thing tommorow
got a new dizzy cap to try, and a couple of sets of leads...
will double check the cold start injector is connected
the rotor is pointed at cylinder one when TDC, checked that before
if the pulleys are the same throughout, it cant be the timing, williams head with williams cams and valves, it cant be possible to fit them wrong if the marks line up surely
TVR Cerbera
Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project
yeah spose so, just so sounds timing to me..............bit puzzled if it's not
yeah spose so, just so sounds timing to me..............bit puzzled if it's not
ValverInBits
Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project
think about it mate. The cams could be 180 deg different. It's the keyways on the cams that locates the dizzy. If the either of the keyways were moved 180 dgrees in relation to the cam lobes then the ignition timing would be 180degrees out.
I find it unlikely but it's a possibility
think about it mate. The cams could be 180 deg different. It's the keyways on the cams that locates the dizzy. If the either of the keyways were moved 180 dgrees in relation to the cam lobes then the ignition timing would be 180degrees out.
I find it unlikely but it's a possibility
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Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project
the cams will only go in one way though due to the pulley end having the two metal rings that are part of the cam that sit into the head?
the keyways on the cams are a single notch on the pulley end, so the pulleys can only go on one way?
edit: i ideally need to find a picture of a williams head in time so i can see the cams and see if mine are the same
the cams will only go in one way though due to the pulley end having the two metal rings that are part of the cam that sit into the head?
the keyways on the cams are a single notch on the pulley end, so the pulleys can only go on one way?
edit: i ideally need to find a picture of a williams head in time so i can see the cams and see if mine are the same
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TVR Cerbera
Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project
willy head, look at first cylinder, lobes are pointing away from each other
and valver head, lobes on second cylinder are much closer together
just another idea.................
(it's not possible to get inlet and exhaust cams mixed up is it?)
I've just looked at your photos on the previous page, and compared your valver head photo with your "timed" willy head. may be nothing but the lobe relationship between inlet and exhaust will be similar "by eye" on each cylinder and your's aren't.......
willy head, look at first cylinder, lobes are pointing away from each other
and valver head, lobes on second cylinder are much closer together
just another idea.................
(it's not possible to get inlet and exhaust cams mixed up is it?)
Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project
the timing must be perfect if the cams will only go on one way, and the pullies will only go on one way also......also if it all lines up at TDC... the williams and valver cams are different, but if the pullies are the same they cant go on wrong i dont think?
its got to be an ignition issue i guess, will triple check all the connections tommorow, going to try the other fuel rail + injectors that i have, along with new dizzy cap + rotor......we shall see
better pic of williams:
the timing must be perfect if the cams will only go on one way, and the pullies will only go on one way also......also if it all lines up at TDC... the williams and valver cams are different, but if the pullies are the same they cant go on wrong i dont think?
its got to be an ignition issue i guess, will triple check all the connections tommorow, going to try the other fuel rail + injectors that i have, along with new dizzy cap + rotor......we shall see
better pic of williams:
ValverInBits
Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project
Stumped. My best suggestion atm is the cold start injector or a dodgy connection somewhere.
No because the inlet cam doesent have the keyway for the dizzy.
Stumped. My best suggestion atm is the cold start injector or a dodgy connection somewhere.
Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project
will have to see what happens with a brand new dizzy and rotor, another set of leads and checking all the connections......if that dosent fire it up ive no idea what it could be really!
will try and find a picture of a williams head in time in the meantime, so i can see if mines the same
will have to see what happens with a brand new dizzy and rotor, another set of leads and checking all the connections......if that dosent fire it up ive no idea what it could be really!
will try and find a picture of a williams head in time in the meantime, so i can see if mines the same
Racing blue 182 turbo :-)
Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project
Just a thought when you put the cam pullys on the cams did you put them on the right cam or are they both the same?? There is to much fuel coming out of body for the right timing i recon but it dont seem as if it can be wrong. Seems as if the inlet valves are shut when it sprays the fuel as if its on the wrong stroke.
Just a thought when you put the cam pullys on the cams did you put them on the right cam or are they both the same?? There is to much fuel coming out of body for the right timing i recon but it dont seem as if it can be wrong. Seems as if the inlet valves are shut when it sprays the fuel as if its on the wrong stroke.
Racing blue 182 turbo :-)
M
mini-valver
Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project
You CAN have the cams mixed up dude, exhaust on inlet side and vice versa. Although, fuel in the inlet manifold could be because you've been turning it over and over and over. It'll just bore wash and chuck fuel everywhere.
You've got a strong, blue spark? Obviously has fuel so I'd be looking at either a timing issue or checking that you have the TDC sensor plugged in.
You CAN have the cams mixed up dude, exhaust on inlet side and vice versa. Although, fuel in the inlet manifold could be because you've been turning it over and over and over. It'll just bore wash and chuck fuel everywhere.
You've got a strong, blue spark? Obviously has fuel so I'd be looking at either a timing issue or checking that you have the TDC sensor plugged in.
Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project
found out it would not fuel without TDC sensor plugged in, so that must be working....
cams cant possibly mixed up as only one of them has the slot on the end for the dizzy cap? the other is just a blank end and slightly shorter...?
found out it would not fuel without TDC sensor plugged in, so that must be working....
cams cant possibly mixed up as only one of them has the slot on the end for the dizzy cap? the other is just a blank end and slightly shorter...?
M
mini-valver
Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project
Fail, lol. You can on my engine
f**k knows then lad, Double check the timing, take it all off, rotate the BE a few times, then re-do TDC.
Fail, lol. You can on my engine
f**k knows then lad, Double check the timing, take it all off, rotate the BE a few times, then re-do TDC.
Christopher
ClioSport Club Member
Z4M
Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project
Yep, that's right. Dave's K4M won't be there same since there's no groove on the cam
It sounds proper weird, that... you've checked all the things i would've thought of! :S
No luck lad! :dapprove:
Yep, that's right. Dave's K4M won't be there same since there's no groove on the cam
It sounds proper weird, that... you've checked all the things i would've thought of! :S
No luck lad! :dapprove:
Christopher
ClioSport Club Member
Z4M
Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project
Back home, probably. The car was at Ryan's in Middlewich
Back home, probably. The car was at Ryan's in Middlewich
Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project
there's your issue!
gopher do you ever work? your always on here!
there's your issue!
gopher do you ever work? your always on here!
Christopher
ClioSport Club Member
Z4M
Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project
I've hardly been on here today! lol
But yeah, quite quiet at work now, Christmas wind-down + financial times.
I've hardly been on here today! lol
But yeah, quite quiet at work now, Christmas wind-down + financial times.
Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project
yeah defo getting fuel, i just tried new dizzy cap/rotor, fresh genuine renault spark plugs and different set of leads......nothing, it popped out of the inlet manifold.....f**k knows
just got a compression tester, cylinder one registered 150PSI, when i got to cylinder two the battery had gone flat so just waiting for someone to come with their car now
was bringing it home last night, lol
yeah defo getting fuel, i just tried new dizzy cap/rotor, fresh genuine renault spark plugs and different set of leads......nothing, it popped out of the inlet manifold.....f**k knows
just got a compression tester, cylinder one registered 150PSI, when i got to cylinder two the battery had gone flat so just waiting for someone to come with their car now
was bringing it home last night, lol
