Mk1 F4R/172'd Track Car Project [Year 3 - Engine and Chassis Rebuild]

[ditz]

Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project

F0xy, i'll tell you now, i doubt if it's a spun bearing, because i've had one and it would still turn over on the starter (very slow but did turn). you either have more than one spun bearing (which i doubt) or a seized bottom end. bearing in mind you had a hole in the sump and a 'WAS' running comment, i'd say it was seized. Either way the cheapest option is to get another bottom end, i didn't and it cost me a lot more than your whole project!

Sorry to hear this mate, should have kept the valver engine and turbo'd it! you'll get it sorted i'm sure

Daz

i also had one with 1 spun big end bearing (same thing arrived to me with a crack in the sump and a new sump)

starter motor wouldnt touch it and i could just about get it to turn with a 4ft breaker bar whilst blipping the starter but that was it

 

[Alex_X93]

Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project

Note to self must read more. OMG cant believe bolt snaped off wtf! New engine time me thinks?

 

[Daz Clio Cup]

Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project

i also had one with 1 spun big end bearing (same thing arrived to me with a crack in the sump and a new sump)

starter motor wouldnt touch it and i could just about get it to turn with a 4ft breaker bar whilst blipping the starter but that was it

even so a spun bearing will kill the crank and con rod. end of. £800 for a crank new and rods come in sets for about £400 iirc. I managed to get a crank for £90 and £450 for forged rods and £3000 to rebuild

 

[Jonny1*2]

Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project

even so a spun bearing will kill the crank and con rod. end of. £800 for a crank new and rods come in sets for about £400 iirc. I managed to get a crank for £90 and £450 for forged rods and £3000 to rebuild

Thats a hard choice :rasp: where you get the crank so cheap?

 

[Daz Clio Cup]

Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project

Thats a hard choice :rasp: where you get the crank so cheap?

secondhand from northern Ireland. had no choice with the rebuild cost because of the state of tune of the engine, it would still have cost that much to do the same to another block. live and learn.

 

[Matteh]

Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project

mine still turned over with a shafted crank

you've not had the main caps off? as those in the wrong way will make the crank seize too


I'd get a new engine though tbh.... look at the hassle I had with mine :dapprove:

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project

mine still turned over with a shafted crank

you've not had the main caps off? as those in the wrong way will make the crank seize too


I'd get a new engine though tbh.... look at the hassle I had with mine :dapprove:

gona have to strip it down first, see whats causing it to not turn over? then go from there.....

 

[iimushroomzii]

Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project

Fucksake! No luck! Really makes you think is it worth doing yourself, for all the hassle?!

 

[Skinny]

Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project

Feel so sorry for you man. Just never goes f**king right for you.

 

[Jay Payne]

Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project

As I said when you posted the first pic of the engine, The cracked sump worried me.

When I snapped a pulley bolt the bit left in it came out real easy by turning it wth a screwdriver. The timing will be all to c**k for sure. Best thing imo is engine out and take the head off. check the valves and see if the bottom end turns over. You will be ok doing that up to thst point as its gonna be the same as when you did the F7, worry about rebuilding/timing when you come to that point.


Gutted for you again mate, wish I was closer id lend a hand

 

[BRUN]

Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project

my favourite method with snapped bolts is to dremel a slot in the end for a flat head screwdriver or flat bit on a ratchet, maybe even an impact driver

 

[Daz Clio Cup]

Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project

i personally wouldn't even worry about the snapped bolt, get the engine out, head off and see what's what, before wasting any more time on a knackered engine

 

[Matteh]

Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project

if you're taking the head off, the head bolts can be reused if the length (under the head) is < 117.7mm (though ive seen some renault manuals quote 118.5mm)


saves a bit of money

 

[mini-valver]

Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project

Dont even bther with the crankbolt. Take the sump off and do what Beanie said, whip the ends off and push all the rods to the top of the cylinder (if they move, thats a good start) then turn the starter with the cambelt off. If it sill just clicks, its fucked.

 

[Fred@BTM]

Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project

christ! meet at jord's gaff?

 

[Gray]

Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project

I'll bring the BIG hammer...

 

[Hutchie]

Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project

im prepared

team work ftw

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project

Dont even bther with the crankbolt. Take the sump off and do what Beanie said, whip the ends off and push all the rods to the top of the cylinder (if they move, thats a good start) then turn the starter with the cambelt off. If it sill just clicks, its f**ked.

bottom ends are a new thing to me, lol

sump off, then just remove the bits holding the rod to the crank? and push on them?

or take the crank completely out?

 

[ditz]

Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project

bottom ends are a new thing to me, lol

sump off, then just remove the bits holding the rod to the crank? and push on them?

yep!

 

[fuel_slut]

Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project

OOOhhhhhhh hell no!

Good job you have the patience of a saint! I would have set fire to this long ago.

 

[mini-valver]

Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project

Theres 2 bolts and an end cap on each rod, undo them and remove the end cap but mark them up to each relevant cylinder, then you'll be able to push the rod away from the crank and up the bore.

 

[geesus69]

Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project

ffs!!

172s do not like going in mk1s!!

tis true :dapprove:

i'm waiting for mine to blow up, just because it won't want to feel left out

good luck with it jord

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project

engines out, box/inlet/etc etc all off.....and in the back of the valver...off to the factory to strip it down now meh :dapprove:

 

[Bluebeard]

Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project

Seriously mate, you have the most patience out of the many thousands of people I have ever met/spoken to. EVER.

Fair play mate, you'll get there in the end i'm sure of it.

 

[BioHzrd]

Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project

Good luck with it mate !

 

[JD]

Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project

jesus christ jordan fox, did you break a mirror a couple of years back or what???

mate really gutted to read this (i dont know what i am actually reading so i am going along with everyone else tbh)

jamie

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project

Right then, heres one for you all to have a think about...

Got the engine out, box off, clutch off, inlet off etc, and then into the back of the valver as said...down the factory, while later onto a pallet then onto the engine stand...

Cam covers removed, spark plugs out (still out from other day), took a spanner to the exhaust pulley, cambelt still on. Turned it over, was perfectly fine, pistons moving as they should, took it easy incase there was valve contact, nothing at all, turned it over like 10+ times....!

So...pretty pissed off after all the effort of taking it back out, then back onto the stand etc, but anyway, was thinking, why the hell is it turning over fine now?

First thing was like, gearbox maybe? Nope, could spin the shaft fine...

Then starter motor? Could turn the tooth with a screwdriver, so it wasnt 'jammed' so to speak...didnt test with a battery and solenoid engaged as I didnt have a battery to hand.........but surely this cant be the problem as the solenoid would not be engaged, meaning the starter tooth wouldnt be engaged on the flywheel (when the crank bolt snapped)

(Ignore the idiot doing commentry, lol)

So...what else could it be? Ive removed the cambelt now, as im going to replace it considering i took the effort to remove the engine, etc...but im stuck for ideas!

This is the snapped bolt, too...

 

[Daz Clio Cup]

Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project

How much effort did the pulley bolt take to shear off? just wondering if it was weak anyway? could be a problem with the starter if the solenoid engaged but didn't turn the motor, it could have then locked the flywheel???
you have all the fun! lol

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project

took quite a bit of force to snap it, all my weight on the breaker bar....could have been weak maybe

 

[Daz Clio Cup]

Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project

took quite a bit of force to snap it, all my weight on the breaker bar....could have been weak maybe

Get your starter tested, next. all of your weight on a bar isn't weak!

 

[Guppy]

Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project

What a sack-ache...

Hope you sort it soon fella!

 

[ben_p]

Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project

Replace the bolt, time it up with a new belt and get a new starter? Do 10 rotations by the crank on the new bolt.

Maybe the starter was stopping the engine from cranking.

 

[Fred@BTM]

Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project

172 flywheel?

the crank pulley bolts do stretch and must be measured to check they're within tolerance

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project

172 flywheel yeah, im going to have to get a new bolt anyway, 3 quid or so from renault...

 

[Fred@BTM]

Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project

you've taken the cam covers off??

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project

i mean the side ones, not the top, should have worded it different really...

cam'belt' covers....

 

[Mark One]

Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project

Reckon you'll be able to get that sheared bolt out jord? had a go yet?
Alll I can think is: If your starter engaged and then failed to retract off the flywheel, then your going to be turning engine and starter motor on the crank bolt. The gear ratio between fly and starter means it's going to be really really difficult....
bit of a wierd one :S

 

[Jonny1*2]

Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project

is this good news or bad then. Suppose a new starters not going to set you back as much as a whole bottom end

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project

its wierd news at the mo, dont know what was causing the engine not to turn over!

mark...ive not tried yet, going to have a go this afternoon....not sure about the solenoid making the gear be stuck in place, as when i removed it, it was in the position it is now, retracted...im taking the head off this afternoon (if i can get the cam pullies off) and turning the crank over without the head on....

 

[Christopher]

Re: Mk1 Hybrid Project

Something weird going on here :S

I'd have torched the f*cker by now!