Mk1 F4R/172'd Track Car Project [Year 3 - Engine and Chassis Rebuild]

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

0-100mph Run 1 - 11.5sec

0-100mph Run 2 - 11.2sec

0-100mph Run 3 - 11.5sec

0-100mph Average (11.5,11.2,11.5) - 11.4sec

You can clearly see on all 3 graphs before the 5sec marker the speed increase rapidly where the wheels are spinning in 1st :boring:

As discussed this may or may not be accurate and was just an test with more data to compare to when the limiter was sub 6k

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

And a few other interesting ones, the fastest 0-100mph time (11.2) plotted against two old logs from when the 1.4 map was on

 

[jay s]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

i dont understand why its recording such quick times:S a Lamborghini Gallardo does 0-100 in 11.0 sec and thats 500bhp. i surpose it does show it has improved tho which is the main thing:approve:

 

[jay s]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

i may have more power, but 130 kgs is not to be sniffed at, equivelent of about an extra 30bhp

that still leaves you with 30bhp odd more which will put you into the 13's

what is your best qtr mile time?

 

[Daz Clio Cup]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

i dont understand why its recording such quick times:S a Lamborghini Gallardo does 0-100 in 11.0 sec and thats 500bhp. i surpose it does show it has improved tho which is the main thing:approve:

It's not doing 11 second 0-100, there will be at least a 5% speedo error, but even so it will be quick. how much does the lambo weigh tho? a 200 bhp caterham 7 will piss all over a lambo to 100, because it only weighs 400 kgs! i recon f0xy's is a lot lighter than he recons!

 

[Daz Clio Cup]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

that still leaves you with 30bhp odd more which will put you into the 13's

what is your best qtr mile time?

best is 14.1, but only had one decent run and it was overheating! that was with loads of wheelspin. Have a few issues with launches, had no probs when it was standard, but now it's a toss up between wheelspin and loads of wheelspin

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

Going to head out later with GPS and laptop/logs on.....to see what the difference is between GPS speed and what speed the ECU is reading at various speeds, so we shall see.

Ive no idea what its going to weigh to be honest, polycarbs and cut out boot/bonnet/other bits, yet to cut out the doors and fit front polycarbs.....also the F4R engine is lighter than F7P/R

 

[Andrew Cooke]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

the start is iffy too, looks to be lag on the speed signal, I think you really start where rpm drops about 1 sec before you see the wheels move. You need TPS at the same time to be sure.

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

I have the TPS data too, 2 second job to overlay onto those...

The start is where the revs shoot up at the same time as the speed, which then drops again.....wheelspin

 

[Hutchie]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

i still thiing this thing will be pretty rapid, half the weight of a 172 with same power

 

[jamie rigby]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

i still thiing this thing will be pretty rapid, half the weight of a 172 with same power

half the weight?? lol, i bet its about 850-875kgs, surely a 172s not 1700kgs...haha

 

[Hutchie]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

850-875 kgs?? where at?? there is nout left of car, obviously when the cage is welded in its gonna raise the weight slighty but i recon 800 or less

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

he was trying to exaggerate a point, lol.

It will be less than 850kg, they are 1000ish standard, ive saved more than 150kg easily lol.

 

[jamie rigby]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

he was trying to exaggerate a point, lol.

It will be less than 850kg, they are 1000ish standard, ive saved more than 150kg easily lol.

yeh i guessed that he was exaggerating lol, so what you hoping for then jord 800 ish...

 

[Andrew Cooke]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

I have the TPS data too, 2 second job to overlay onto those...

The start is where the revs shoot up at the same time as the speed, which then drops again.....wheelspin

the revs shoot up and drop when you change gear. You certainly have spin in first, and some slip in 2nd. The bit I'm talking about before the wheelspeed is where the revs increase as you open the throttle, then drop as the clutch engages. Assuming it's not just you blipping the throttle before the start... Since the revs drop it means the engine must be under load, if there is load there muct be movement. It looks like the speed signal isn't great around 0mph, you can see this in the way that the speed increases in steps as you move away - lowest speed it can measure looks like 8mph, next step ~16mph, then ~20mph

it's surprising how well the 1.4 map looks to work, the man difference seems to be the lack of revs.

 

[Hutchie]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

i think its fair to say its gonna have 200+bhp/ton

nice

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

the revs shoot up and drop when you change gear. You certainly have spin in first, and some slip in 2nd. The bit I'm talking about before the wheelspeed is where the revs increase as you open the throttle, then drop as the clutch engages. Assuming it's not just you blipping the throttle before the start... Since the revs drop it means the engine must be under load, if there is load there muct be movement. It looks like the speed signal isn't great around 0mph, you can see this in the way that the speed increases in steps as you move away - lowest speed it can measure looks like 8mph, next step ~16mph, then ~20mph

it's surprising how well the 1.4 map looks to work, the man difference seems to be the lack of revs.

well explained, although I do tend to give it a few revs before pulling away...

Il post up the same three graphs with throttle position overlaid shortly so we can see

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

Run 1 - Inc Throttle Position

Run 2 - Inc Throttle Position

Run 3 - Inc Throttle Position

 

[Hutchie]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

on run two its clear to see you are nt using full throttle in gears 2+3 explain???

 

[Guppy]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

on run two its clear to see you are nt using full throttle in gears 2+3 explain???

Backing off to get traction?

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

not backing off as such just not going full throttle straight away as it just spins up in 2nd mid range....

Throttle position never goes past 90% on the logs, so 90% has to be full throttle IMO. I know this because the RStuner performance analyzer only starts 'sampling' live data when you hit full throttle, then when you completely let off and it gets back to its 'idle throttle position' sampling stops....and draws you a graph...

So if i wasnt hitting full throttle, that feature wouldnt work....

Although, its hard to explain what the throttle pedal is like on this.... Like on a Mk2 you can push it nearly to the floor to that little 'stop' that there is, on mine, full throttle is halfway down the pedal travel, so its more sensitive so to speak....So if i try to ram the pedal down, it pulls pretty hard on the plastic guide for the cable....dont want to go breaking that!

 

[coxy777]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

Maybe make a stopper for it so you don't?

Epic project, read it from the beginning, nice to see it all coming together now.

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

Cheers, must have took some time!

Yeah possibly, but its only usually me that drives it, so I know not to push it hard past halfway, you can 'feel' it stop, so anyone would know not to push it past that to be honest!

 

[Bloooor]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

you on a diet now then jord? lol! Graphs look good, will come visit in the near future aswell... can see the monahoe

 

[TooneySonic]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

TooneySonic has offered me his Shricks if his car dosent sell (so its 50/50 at the moment) as im going to put the standard items back in for him if there is no interest.

He had decat+map @ rstuning and few other bits with them in, made 192bhp....If I get them, hopefully I can get a figure around that and in the future after that....who knows lol

We just came across each other a few mins ago and had a quick unscientific blat up to 120 jellybeans, couldn't pull on him at all, although i did have two heavy suitcases in the boot and was two up but so was jord lol

He may have gained a little in third but i was getting earache off the verbal traction control sat next to me so couldn't tell

We'll have a proper do when i get back mate, it'll be rapid if you fit my cams muhahahaha

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

Yeah.....im not that impressed with mine after that though tbh!!

Considering what you made at RSTuning the other week, i really should be gaining on you more i think?! If my engine is timed up right and healthy that is, the car is alot lighter lol

 

[Guppy]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

Thats what i ment with backing off

to get traction

 

[Ali]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

Glad to see it's revvin now. Last time i looked at this thread it wouldnt rev past 5k? What was the fix?

11.2 to 100 is very impressive!

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

The problem was the ECU had been flashed with a 1.4 8v calibration file + software.....the engine in question has a 6k limiter, so it explained it.....

We think this was done by the ECU clinic when they 'decoded it' to remove the immobiliser, think they wrote the wrong files back onto the ECU! I flashed the ECU with the 172 software, and the car wouldnt run for a week due to the immobilser coming back on (ECU Clinic only do a software de-code, not hardware.....so any time its mapped or flashed the immobiliser comes back, fooking s**te!)

I ended up getting an immobiliser emulator, soldered it to the ECU inside, and it worked perfectly. Running the 172 Ph1 Grp N map on it now from fastchip/RSTuner/etc.

 

[powey]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

The problem was the ECU had been flashed with a 1.4 8v calibration file + software.....the engine in question has a 6k limiter, so it explained it.....

We think this was done by the ECU clinic when they 'decoded it' to remove the immobiliser, think they wrote the wrong files back onto the ECU! I flashed the ECU with the 172 software, and the car wouldnt run for a week due to the immobilser coming back on (ECU Clinic only do a software de-code, not hardware.....so any time its mapped or flashed the immobiliser comes back, fooking s**te!)

I ended up getting an immobiliser emulator, soldered it to the ECU inside, and it worked perfectly. Running the 172 Ph1 Grp N map on it now from fastchip/RSTuner/etc.

Id be on the phone then getting my money back? As youv done what they was supposed to do

 

[Ali]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

Ah. Well sorted! Whats stil got to be done to it then? I was dubious that you'd have it all done for FCS! ...

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

Id be on the phone then getting my money back? As youv done what they was supposed to do

I have no proof they did it as said....I have a backup of the ECU which shows it being the wrong map/software....but no proof they did it. I know they f**ked the PCB by scratching the track off, and an email with pics was sent on saturday with that, dosent answer phone on weekends.......

So il just have to see what happens!

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

Ah. Well sorted! Whats stil got to be done to it then? I was dubious that you'd have it all done for FCS! ...

Had a full cage sat here for 3 months, just needs welding in...... Then just general tidying up, once cage is in, interior sprayed, then turn my attention to the bodywork if i can be arsed!

 

[Ali]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

Is it needing work? Arches/doors/tailgate rust free?

 

[jams]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

All I can say is it quick and I want one!

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

Is it needing work? Arches/doors/tailgate rust free?

tailgate is freshly painted Ph1 item, painted 2-3 weeks ago.....doors are solid, drivers door is only 12 months old....drivers rear qtr 12 months old too.....

General structure/arches/doors/sills are spot on, just needs like front wings sorting (paint chipped/cracked), front and rear bumpers are a bit tatty, drivers door has a key mark etc! Not too fussed though really, might be a job over the winter...

Got Brands on 27th, FCS, Ring in July, Cadwell in Aug, Oulton in Sept....so il just have to see!

 

[Ali]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

tailgate is freshly painted Ph1 item, painted 2-3 weeks ago.....doors are solid, drivers door is only 12 months old....drivers rear qtr 12 months old too.....

General structure/arches/doors/sills are spot on, just needs like front wings sorting (paint chipped/cracked), front and rear bumpers are a bit tatty, drivers door has a key mark etc! Not too fussed though really, might be a job over the winter...

Got Brands on 27th, FCS, Ring in July, Cadwell in Aug, Oulton in Sept....so il just have to see!

Goodo! Would be nice to have it all done for the show!! Funds permitting! See you on track at oulton! (Assume it's the RS track day??)

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

Goodo! Would be nice to have it all done for the show!! Funds permitting! See you on track at oulton! (Assume it's the RS track day??)

Yep Brands/Cadwell/Oulton all the RS days

 

[Matteh]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

was it side by side? or was there was slipstreaming going on

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

I was about a 75-100yrds behind all the way