Mk1 F4R/172'd Track Car Project [Year 3 - Engine and Chassis Rebuild]

[Andrew Cooke]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

the other important inputs to check are throttle position, MAP, air temp. errm, must be more than that....

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

just uploading a PDF in a sec with a few minutes of data.

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

Data logs attached. One is in time order (how it was logged), other is in order highest revs first (to see if anyone can spot anything with the surrounding data)...

(there are some variables missing as not all were logged, only half the options were selected IIRC)

 

[Matteh]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

just knocked up a quick graph of that data

one problem i can see is that at about 500s, he does a run from slow to about 100clicks with a few gear changes on the way.

the revs rise and fall as you'd expect when you change gear and accelerate, however, the speed doesnt seem to constantly rise, it falls to 0 on each gear change!

that's not right!

 

[Andrew Cooke]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

the revs rise and fall as you'd expect when you change gear and accelerate, however, the speed doesnt seem to constantly rise, it falls to 0 on each gear change!

that's not right!

nice job on the graph, but it looks like speed goes to 0 when he stops, zoom in on the 500-600 second bit, that's the only interesting bit.

There isn't much to see without lambda, but maybe TPS is noisy? you're only sampling at 10Hz, so it's difficult to say.

If you can do a full throttle pull in say 3rd it'll be clearer.

 

[Matteh]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

my apologies, you're correct

here's a zoomed in section of his 0-100mph run with the speed data (+smoothed)

so, speedo sensor is working properly!

 

[Matteh]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

and here's a close up of 400-500s with engine speed and throttle position

throttle position never goes below 10%

 

[richy22]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

and here's a close up of 400-500s with engine speed and throttle position


throttle position never goes below 10%

That doesn't seem right???

When I had RSTuner connected up yesterday I swear mine was about 1 or 2 %

 

[Matteh]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

yeh doesn't look right, only peaks at 80-something % too, though that doesnt account for the waaaaaaatatatata limiter

 

[Andrew Cooke]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

TPS generally looks odd I'm guessing the 0-100 would be with full throttle, the sensor doesn't show that.

 

[richy22]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

I cant do it now but il take a log on my way to work tomorrow which might help for a comparison??

 

[Matteh]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

I love graphs

 

[Andrew Cooke]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

I cant do it now but il take a log on my way to work tomorrow which might help for a comparison??

that would be useful, grab your fuel trims too, do the constant changes look normal?

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

the 0-100 wasnt full throttle to be honest, it was behind a car then pulled out with more throttle then eased back at 100....though, it never goes above 82% ish

If i do a log, what data do we need....Lambda....what else (thats missing)?

 

[Andrew Cooke]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

may as well grab everything

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

back shortly.

 

[Matteh]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

large graph of f0xys latest speedo run. (had to make it this large to maintain detail)

I have no idea what i'm looking for, but if anyone wants a specific part of the graph done with added data (fuel trim, throttle position etc..) just say

 

[Andrew Cooke]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

is there a CSV, or text file with everything?

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

yeah,

http://www.f0xy.net/RSTuner_LD_2009-05-07_21-53.csv

RSTuner will only plot 16 items at one time, so i chose the most relevant 16.

 

[Andrew Cooke]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

do you know where you hit the limiter?

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

There is around 200 seconds of normal driving, then im stood stationary, and revving it a few times upto 3000, then one blip to 5000ish. I pull away and hit the limiter in two out of 3 gears, then slow for roundabout on my private runway.

Then pull away, hit the limiter in every gear until it tops out in 5th on the limiter, then slow down. Then normal driving until around 425 seconds, then I short shift 1st and 2nd, then full throttle it in 3rd to the limiter, limiter in 4th, then near the limiter in 5th...then slowing down again, and there is a small bit on the end of the data.

 

[.J.a.m.e.s.]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

this thread has had approx the same amount of views as a full house at old trafford. rofl

 

[richy22]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

Got a couple of logs from this morning if anyone wants to look and compare??!

Just need to upload them somewhere first??

I can already see a major difference on throttle position.. mine is 2.8116 when not touched going up to a maximum of 79 from my quick look.

F0xy's never goes as low as 10??

 

[richy22]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

http://www.mediafire.com/file/ozjg0hykzmd/RSTuner_LD_2009-05-08_07-37.csv

http://www.mediafire.com/file/x3jymyljzgj/RSTuner_LD_2009-05-08_07-46.csv

Hope they work!

 

[richy22]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

make sure you SAVE file though rather than opening normally! Otherwise it opens in notepad

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

Your throttle is FBW though, I noticed this on Ryans 182 and Tooneys 172, throttle position of 2.x on idle.....Ph1 cable throttle could work in a different way....

Il have a play with them now, cheers for getting them

 

[Mark One]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

i've got no experience with RS tuner. But Is there a way of checking what the limiter is set too?
Could you check that it's set to the correct value?
Just trying to think about what's different about your setup to a completely standard 172Ph1. The ECU is unlocked, the speed sensor is a mk1 type, do the ECUs take any reading from the ABS sensors on the car at all?

Could always try your unlocked ECU on someone elses standard Phase 1?

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

Speed sensor outputs the exact same reading as the 172 Ph1 gearbox type (12v pulse every 0.2m)....ECU Unlocked yeah.

172 Ph1s dont take any readings from the ABS, that was only latter models. Its reading for speed comes from the box like a mk1 does...

I could try it on another Ph1, but will it not throw the other systems into a fit if a different ECU is plugged in...?

 

[geesus69]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

did you and matteh both get your ecu's unlocked at ecu clinic?

don't know why the unlocking process might cause an issue, but it's a thought?

 

[Mark One]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

^yeah, swot I was thinking. At this stage when everything else has been tried

Speed sensor outputs the exact same reading as the 172 Ph1 gearbox type (12v pulse every 0.2m)....ECU Unlocked yeah.

172 Ph1s dont take any readings from the ABS, that was only latter models. Its reading for speed comes from the box like a mk1 does...

I could try it on another Ph1, but will it not throw the other systems into a fit if a different ECU is plugged in...?

Theres that whole annoying issue of ECU and UCH 'pairing'. I'm not quite sure how it affects things though. Need to consult a fred or eddie on that'n

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

did you and matteh both get your ecu's unlocked at ecu clinic?

don't know why the unlocking process might cause an issue, but it's a thought?

yeah we did...matteh dosent have this problem though...

His revs to 6k cold, 6.6k when upto temp, so hes getting past 6k by quite a bit. He thinks this is down to him using a different coolant temperature sensor (K4M, 1.6 Item), and outputting a different resistance....Hes got a 172 one on the way to try though.

I suppose I can download the standard .cal file from the ECU, and ask henk to check it over if hes got time, or look at it myself some how.

 

[geesus69]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

ah right i see

i need to get mine sorted to see what it revs up to

 

[richy22]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

Your throttle is FBW though, I noticed this on Ryans 182 and Tooneys 172, throttle position of 2.x on idle.....Ph1 cable throttle could work in a different way....

Il have a play with them now, cheers for getting them

Ah yeah didnt realise you were had a phase 1

 

[Matteh]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

yeah we did...matteh dosent have this problem though...

His revs to 6k cold, 6.6k when upto temp, so hes getting past 6k by quite a bit. He thinks this is down to him using a different coolant temperature sensor (K4M, 1.6 Item), and outputting a different resistance....Hes got a 172 one on the way to try though.

I suppose I can download the standard .cal file from the ECU, and ask henk to check it over if hes got time, or look at it myself some how.

yep, mines not perfect, but it's still an improvement. i still get 2 limiters based on temperature, they're just a bit low. I'm not sure if its my tacho though so i'm going to try another one over the weekend that i know hasn't been fiddled with

 

[AFerreira_PT]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

hi!

been following this thread almost daily since i viewed some 80 pages at once and i have to say: you sure got skills but no luck at all!
that's a great car you got there! just hope it doesn't take much longer to have it running at 100%!

for the limiter problem you could ask (and pay...) Fastchip to make you a custom .cal and change\remove all those limiters...

if you're still running the standard software, why don't you try one of the free files from Fastchip?

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

We decided not to risk mapping it via RST yet due to the immobiliser that has been removed from the ECU, it *may* wipe it off.

Ive just sent henk a copy of my current ECU software, and cal file, and hes going to test it and see what we get back

 

[fil_b]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

hope does sort it

can understand what u mean about the tuner and the imobileizer issue

need to chat to henk myself also

 

[AFerreira_PT]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

seems like someone will have some fun tonight...

 

[f0xy]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

Well big thanks to Henk for checking the ECU software/Cal of my current ECU.

Well, the mystery is solved.
He is running standard software for a K7J 700 Engine. Hence the 6k limiter.
The correct A300_35FF calibration can be found on my site.
Use RSTuner to upload it the .cal into your ECU.

Oh dear, how the hell has a 172 ECU ended up with a K7J software running on it (1.4 I think)!

 

[powey]

Re: Mk1 172 Hybrid Track Car Project

Hope this dosnt damage the ecu