Oil Message/Engine Damage?

[Alex_225]

Ok, so I started my 172 today and got the 'check oil' warning on the dash, no light just that message on the screen.

Now I will admit that I haven't checked the oil level in the car for some time for various reasons I've not given it much thought but the car was serviced just before winter and I hadn't anticipated the oil level to drop rapidly. The oil level had never really changed much since I bought the car.

So upon checking the dipstick, the oil level was at the bottom of the dipstick. My first question is, am I likely to have caused any damage to the engine?

Secondly is it normal for it to burn this much oil in say four months since the service? The car had new cams and remap done by K-Tec and was serviced not long after.

Just worried as to how it's lost the oil and what damage might have caused by not topping it up and allowing this warning to come on.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Bluebeard]

Mapped by ktec and now burning oil after a cam package ???
chipmk1 CUB[/MENTION

 

[Dan@SJM]

No it's not normal. General suggestion would be to get the map checked by someone independent. Where are you based? Its also then a good idea to have an inespection, to try and find the route cause for the loss of oil. Compression and leak down test would give you an idea if it's burning it or not.

 

[Cub.]

Firstly, sorry to hear this OP.

Which cams did it have? As said, get the map checked independantly as a first port of call, with a leak down / compression test to determine any long term damage.

Unfortunately, I know of 5 cars (including mine) that have had a cam / remap package at k-tec, with the work causing problems. Mine was left in the same state as yours, ended up with poor compression, and so I'm currently in the process of putting a new engine in. Feel free to PM me if you want to discuss it more in private.

 

[Alex_225]

Thanks for the info guys. I may be getting in touch with K-tec at some point if I can't see any physical leaks which might cause the oil loss.

The only things that's strange is that the time scale from when the cams/remap were done is longer to the service than the time from the service when the warning came on.

The only thing that's changed in terms of how I use the car is that I'm doing less day to day town driving and now the odd weekend motorway journey but I don't see what difference that would make.

Pretty gutted as the car drives perfectly, haven't noticed any strange noises from the engine but obviously now I'm looking out for every single noise.

Is it very likely I've now damaged the engine?

 

[Cub.]

I would strongly advise getting the map and AFRs checked independantly, before you take it back to k-tec. What cam package did it have?

If it is using oil, with no sign of leakage, unfortunately the engine damage may have been done. Mine ran very well, up until it started eating oil then it progressively got worse and worse.

You might also want to have a read of this;

http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?719214-Bad-Tuning-amp-work-shop-work

 

[neil a]

Is it a case of massive over fueling causing bore wash ?

 

[Dan@SJM]

Not usually. It's the other way round from the map on Kyle's.

But to the OP.

Chances are the starting with low oil hasn't done any damage. It has to be very low (off the dipstick low) before it'll cause issues on a quick start up/switch off.

 

[Alex_225]

Well I'm not sure how low it was but it was certainly low enough to worry me.

As for the package it was this one

http://www.k-tecracing.com/power_upgrades_package_details.asp?id=5

As you can see not cheap and I spent a fair whack with them considering I had a cambelt/dephaser replaced plus an induction on top of the can package,

I'm based in Surrey but have no idea of a reputable RenautSport specialist in my area. Hence taking the trip to Ktec. You assume with such a big name in this scene they'd be fairly competent, yes you hear the horror stories but if they're that big you're bound too.

 

[Cub.]

Yep, another 438 package. That makes 6 I know of. Exactly the package I had OP.

Surrey - looks like another one for the MWM boys to look at. Mike and James are in Staines. Mike will do an AFR check / leak down and compression test as he did them on mine and a few other cars that have suffered similar fates. You won't find anyone better at working on these engines than Mike and he is honest aswell.

Contact details for S&MWM

James = 07525 819307

Mike = 07985 266042

Please can I ask OP, that when you have the results, you PM me. I am taking my engine apart soon, and depending on the results will be discussing with k-tec what they propose to do about the problems I and others have had. So far they have just tried to fob people off.

 

[Alex_225]

Thanks Cub, looks like I may be giving them a shout.

One quick question, if (by some kind of miracle) it's not the Cams/re-map that's the problem and it may actually have leaked the oil, with it being this low would it definitely have damaged the engine?

Oh and also, if it was burning the oil, would I not notice smoke when it's running?

 

[Dan@SJM]

How much oil did it take to bring it up to level?

 

[Alex_225]

Well I wasn't at home last night so I only had the chance to top up with 1 1/2 ltres which took it about 1/3 over the minimum marker.

If that makes sense.

 

[Dan@SJM]

It *should* be ok oil pressure wise. It still had 3 litres in it. How long was it running for?

 

[Alex_225]

Well assuming that's the first time that message came up, it was running for 60-90 seconds maximum.

I'm usually pretty observant with the dashboard so I'm 99.99% sure that's the first time that message came up on the display.

 

[Dan@SJM]

It should be ok. But it's a lot of oil to have lost in 1 journey. I think you'll be fine, but depending on what condition the Map is, it could be a different story.

 

[Alex_225]

Oh no it wasn't one journey, sorry if that was the impression gave.

This has probably been over the last 4 months or so as shamefully it's been about that long since I looked at the oil.

From what I'm understanding out of the 5 1/2(?) litres of oil the engine uses, the difference from maximum and minimum mark on the dip stick is 2 litres?

 

[Dan@SJM]

1 litre for the mark. 5 litres fills them up generally.

 

[Alex_225]

I have now managed to fill the oil level up to maximum and taken the car for a 20 mile drive with a variety of mixed roads.

The car seems to be running fine, engine is pulling nicely but obviously I'll be keeping a close eye on the oil level.

One thing I (think) I noticed is that the exhaust note seemed noisier. I'm not sure if that is just my paranoia or if it is actually louder. Would potential damage cause the exhaust note to change or would I literally hear noise in the engine bay?

 

[cs_dave]

Mate tbf the advice has been given. Before sitting back and waiting for possible failure get it checked out ktecs workshop work has a bad name on here.

 

[plymcl172]

as above just get it checked by a specialist on here, and I don't mean K- Tec .....

 

[Dan@SJM]

I can also do a map check if required (if mike is too busy!)

 

[Alex_225]

Out of interest what kind of cost are we looking at to do map checks?

 

[Dan@SJM]

£75 for a datalog from myself, £150 with a cam timing check.