Renault Clio 182 2004, very rich idle problems only, LIVE DATA ADVICE NEEDED

[autophilia]

Hi Folks, newbie here.

Somebody out there must be able to answer this question.

I have a very rich - poor idling Renault Clio 182.

Everything else apart form this, is absolutely spot on. well - from what i can tell anyway.

I am wondering if anybody out there can answer some live data figures.

I have swapped the pre and post cat sensors around. which seams to make things abit better but before doing this the front one would go up and down like crazy and the back one would just hover around 450, the car is decated and shows no warning lights and no fault codes what so ever. even in the dash display, after swapping these sensors they are now both very active.

i have screenshots of my data and one thing is very apparant to me. The intake manifold pressure.
This sits (with engine off key on) at 10056mbar, but when disconnected it fails to its defualt value of 1040mbar. the barometric reading also starts at 999mbar until you disconnect it, it then goes to 1015mbar, i now understand it takes the barometic reading once before starting then relies on the actual manifold presure sensor, which in my case seems to be extremley high, unless i am reading it wrong, i am open to opinions and comments

i have also noticed on the live data many different figures and wonder if the timing and/or dephaser need changing.

The car is currently on 60k from 2004, so the car is aged now. either way things need changing, i am from the west yorkshire area and trying to find a specialist to take on this task seems abit tricky. any advice?

the idle is lumpy and there is a intermitent pop from the KTEC exhaust.

I have noticed one point of engine wiring loom contamination. Its the wires under the front of the water thermostat housing, i have noticed both oil and antifreeze mix through the entire length of the plastic frame support, it had gone quite hard ont he surface and caked the entire loom. i have upon leaving the igntion on by mistake noticed the famous buzz from the throttle body to actually change note while fiddling with the wiring that comes from the ecu to the gearbox, the contamination area and the throttle body wiring clip itself. i have videos of this. i highly suspect a wiring fault but after wiggling and moving many many many wires and trying to eliminate containmation the throttle body no longer changes no matter what i move and there does not seem to be any ill effect when the engine is running.

I have been out for a run and the lowest the revs got were 650rpm. again, everything else is perfect, pulls good. but the low revs on idle, and the richness. and the manifold pressure reading. (after checking wires back to ECU with no leak or short.) its just insane. unless i am reading it wrong. i have alos replaced the map sensor. to no avail.

could it be the timing as thats the only real answer i can find on here. that can cause a high manifold pressure reading but not always the case. or wear on the pully. i can see signs of oil leakeage at the bottom of the timing cover but the previous owner obviously did not care about oil spils over engine so its hard to say if its from the pullys or the overspill.

i have a second hand loom on order as Renault are now offering to swap one for near on £650. ''but its a complete hardness you know'' - he said, leave it with me i said.

does anybody have any reference as to what 'a good live data figure result' would be?

i will upload as many screenshots as i can so you can see for real what it happening.

~Thank you.

 

[autophilia]

contamination area

 

[autophilia]

These following screenshots are from test run, reading the data as i go.
Apologies for the sheer bombardement of photos but it makes for an interesting read.
Thank you

The numbers:- left - lowest recorded (-) right - highest recorded

 

[sburrell93]

These engines are notoriously lumpy and run rich from cold. One thing standing out to me from those live readings is that the coolant temp never reaching 90 degrees. Maybe the car wasn't running long enough, but if it's not reaching proper operating temp then it's going to be constantly lumpy. It might be something as simple as a stuck open thermostat or dodgy sensor causing it to run like that.

O2 sensor readings sound fairly normal. Pre-cat will jump around as it's controlling fuelling. Post cat is just there to tell if the cat is doing it's job, but if it's decatted then it's going to be getting the same readings as the pre-cat sensor so should give similar readings if they're both working OK.

 

[bloke]

loom definitely needs a good check over, oil can be fun with can wires.

anything on stft's?

 

[Louis]

Think you're the guy I got my door glass off. Good luck with the new project. You have enough parts thats for sure if you're the same guy.

 

[autophilia]

Checked loom fully. No obvious signs. Cleaned and replaced.

No alterations. It's not constant bad and the richness has decreased.

I had it running on the ramp up to temp and fan came on etc, the header tank was circulating and the temp went down. Without removing it and upsetting the seals it's hard to see what condition it is in.

This car is on most of its original stuff.

I think it was also on the wrong oil. As it does appear quieter.

Seems a lot better since finding small previous issues, the post cat sensor was 1 turn loose. I've now swapped them around. All tight.

It seems on the initial start and run it did not go below 1020revs. But still the odd air pop from the exhaust and the engine shake that occurs with it.

The manifold pressure concerns me. This is stated in mbar and if I disconnect the sensor with engine off the default value of pressure appears. You can see for yourself the actual lowest and high.

Sometimes when disconnected running, the engine cuts out, but most stays going with little change.

I've had one before with a engine wiring loom fault and that cut out when you pressed the break pedal. But that's another story.

There are too many weak factors in this design. Wiring positions along with the tightness followed by sloppy engine mounts.

I've noticed wear on the top air con pipe from the plastic Clip that holds the wires to side so I know this engine has moved somewhat. More than what you can wiggle the loom anyway.

I'm after the manifold pressure issue as the cat sensors do appear to be ok. I don't know why changing them around has made any difference as they are working more or less the same.

 

[Mike@Rentech]

Injector?

 

[autophilia]

No, all working fine.

Tested disconnection running and tested resistance.

One thing I have noticed though is inside the intake manifold down pipes they are ever so black as you can clearly see where the fuel has been coming out of the injector inside as that's clean as. Not sure what that is/was

!

 

[autophilia]

I've noticed a slight whine and a definite engine vibration around the 3k rev range.

From a cold start you can also hear a low pitch whine but not a hum which decreases within the minute.

I think this car needs a new water pump and pulley belt change completely.

It needs doing regardless of the issues so I will report in due course.

Does anybody have any experience with ClioTurbo in Durham?

Thank you in advance.

 

[dynodan]

MAP signal shouldn't go much over 1000mBar - certainly no more than 10mBar above ambient.
Try swapping your MAP sensor with a known good one.

 

[autophilia]

Sorted.

Bad timing.

Replaced everything including dephaser and both belts and tensioners inc water pump

Before that, replaced front cat sensor, map sensor, thermostat and temp sensor.

A totally different car. Difference response.

Mint idle, mint map sensor reading, mint running data.

Mint drive.

After a lot of searching, diagnostics and general messing about, it took a very compentent specialist to rectify the issues. In less than half a day!

I used Diamond Motors based in Nottingham. The only company to reply to emails. On a national scale in a 3 week time frame. I emailed 7 other "specialists" who have yet to reply or even acknowledge me.

Mike is trusted by me and no other "garage substitute" should be taken unless truly experienced and understand these engines. I'm not saying just use diamond motors, do not, he speaks highly of other national good boys but that's to each person to make up their own mind. I made the right decision all in all, and I'm just offering my personal gaurentee this company is and has a no BS attitude. If you can't afford this level of service on a car like this (if you want to keep it running and mint) you need a simpler engine.

My experience today is what I've always wanted from a specialist. Diamond Motors truly are that.

I would say most bad idles on these are timing Related. Not a constant bad idle but a hunting one. It was suspected before any work was taken and I would saying the map reading will tell you this in most cases.

Genuine OEM are the only parts that are made to the specifications of the environment it is designed for. I've always thought this myself and having it confirmed over the past few weeks now sways me from EVER buying aftermarket "OEM spec" products again. Buy right once. It pays dividends in the end.

You see too many unfinished threads so I thought I would supply my winnings.

If you've read this far, you've read too much.